10 story hole in WTC 7 - Part II

UNLoVedRebel said:
You were referring to progressive collapses in general. That's why you used the indefinite article, then tried to switch. Epic fail.

Nice you admit it was a progressive collapse though. Go tell Gage and the rest of ae911truth. They have collapse in irony quotes. That always baffled me.
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You cannot dispute or deal with the fact that free fall can only occur in a CD so you argue semantics.
Who do you think you're kidding?
 
Christopher7 said:
You cannot dispute or deal with the fact that free fall can only occur in a CD so you argue semantics.
Who do you think you're kidding?
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:rolleyes: Oh god. Free fall can occur in a progressive collapse, which we both agree is what the collapse of WTC 7 was, despite ae911truth having it in irony quotes. I think it was a fire-induced progressive collapse. You think it was an explosive induced progressive collapse. Are we on the same page so far?
 
NIST has acknowledged that WTC 7 fell at free fall for 105 feet.

The progressive collapse NIST proposes is a series of structural failures that occur in succession, one leading to the next. This could not result in all support columns failing on 8 floors simultaneously as is necessary for the free fall observed.
 
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Christopher7 said:
You cannot dispute or deal with the fact that free fall can only occur in a CD so you argue semantics.
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As free fall is a measure of acceleration, and not a speed, doesn't this happen in any case where one or more structural components fail?


Christopher7 said:
Who do you think you're kidding?
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That's a good question I'd like to ask the same of you...
 
Christopher7 said:
beachnut and bje,

Provide another possibility or accept the fact that thermite is the only known cause of the molten metal.
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You mean that old mercury-thermometers need to be thermited to work?

You have no proof of molten steel. Why do you mix these two words (metal/steel) freely?
 
Christopher7 said:
Thermite is the only known possible cause for the molten metal in the first place.
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No.

The only need to transform solid to liquid is heat. (/pedant on - Pressure also. /pedant off)

Firstly you need to work out how much thermite was needed for the job. You are incapable of doing this.

Secondly you need to work out how much molten metal (Fe from thermite and molten steel) is produced. You are incapable of doing this.

Thirdly, you need to work out how quickly this material would cool. You are incapable of doing this.

You are incapable of doing three relatively simple things. If you could do these calculations then you would have some solid information that would either give your argument some credence or it would show that your argument is wrong.

Thermite has got to be one of the most stupid suggestions I've ever heard for molten metal. It's suggested by people who do not know what thermite is, do not understand the thermite reaction, do not understand Stoichiometry which is the first course taught at 16 for A-levels, do not understand heat transfer, do not understand basic metallurgy, do not understand Physics. The only thing I can say to C7 is to start doing Maths, Physics and Chemistry at a level that is found in most advanced countries between the ages of 16 and 18. That's the only way you'll manage to understand thermite.

Why have aero-engine manufacturers spent millions of dollars developing very, very, very expensive, high temperature resistant materials such as Nickel based super alloys and TBCs if steel can't be melted by anything except thermite or in a foundry? Why don't they just make turbine blades out of cheap mild steel?
 
Christopher7 said:
beachnut and bje,

Provide another possibility or accept the fact that thermite is the only known cause of the molten metal.
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#1 - there is no evidence of molten metal in the rubble pile.

#2 - the only thing that is required to turn solid to liquid is heat.

#3 - thermite would not produce molten metal in the quantities you think

#4 - whatever molten metal thermite produced would cool and therefore solidify far, far quicker than you can possibly think because you have no experience of steels*.

#5 - if iron was molten in the rubble pile then any material with a lower melting point would also be molten i.e. a liquid. You can't have molten iron without molten Lead, Copper, Aluminium etc. There is no evidence of other molten materials.

#6 - rubble pile temperature readings do not indicate temperatures high enough to melt steel.

* - my final year project at university was High Temperature Corrosion of Engineering Ceramics and for this I was given 9 months use of a high temperature furnace - max temp @ 1600°C. I used two temps; 1200°C and 1400°C. The furnace has to be kept on full time so 9 months solid, but at the end if it I had to turn it off so lobbed a few different things in using crucibles. Naturally inquisition gets the better of you. ;) I had a few pieces of different steels. The furnace took less than 2 days to cool down and all of the steels included a couple that had melted could be removed and touched - slightly warm after that time and that's whilst inside a very well insulated furnace.

There is absolutely no way that molten Iron from thermite or molten steel from thermite is going to lay around in a liquid state for much time even in a fire because the temperatures generated are below the steels melting point.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
As free fall is a measure of acceleration, and not a speed, doesn't this happen in any case where one or more structural components fail?
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No
Free fall can only occur if there is NO resistance. ALL the supports have to fail on 8 floors. This can happen 1 floor at a time but supporting columns on all 8 floors have to fail in 2.25 seconds.
 
Christopher7 said:
No
Free fall can only occur if there is NO resistance. ALL the supports have to fail on 8 floors. This can happen 1 floor at a time but supporting columns on all 8 floors have to fail in 2.25 seconds.
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And your theory is that magic kill-a-column super nano thermite was used for disintegrating the columns?
Care to tell more about this? Amount of thermite, how was it applied etc.
 
Christopher7 said:
The chart is a guide to the approximate temperature of steel. The photo was taken at night and was lit with work lights. This will produce a reasonably accurate colors.
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The apparent colours in this photo are useless for determining temperature, just as my fireplace photos (above) are also useless. I was experimenting with the aperture settings of a new camera.

When you say the subject was "lit with work lights" you fail to mention - like the Truther sites that point out the subject is illuminated from behind the camera - the floodlight or headlight in the camera's field of view at 3o'clock, far right. Here, I've even circled it for you in white:

grabgoodwithhighlights.jpg


This will affect the aperture and exposure required to get a clear photo of the main subject.

I repeat - the colours here are no guide to metal temperature even if (and it's a big if, as I speculated in the "grab" thread) that this glowing object is metal at all.
 
KTB said:
You mean that old mercury-thermometers need to be thermited to work?

You have no proof of molten steel. Why do you mix these two words (metal/steel) freely?
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There were no other metals in enough quantity to account for the molten metal found under all three buildings.
Furthermore, aluminum would be liquid at these temperatures.
Why can't you guys deal with the evidence? You keep trying to deny the obvious.

This is proof of molten steel/iron.

colorheatchartcrabclawevq3.jpg
 
GlennB said:
The apparent colours in this photo are useless for determining temperature,
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Wrong!

The exposure is good, the colors are close, obviously shot by a pro. He/she has adjusted for the light.
You are in denial grasping for a reason.
 
Sunstealer said:
* - my final year project at university was High Temperature Corrosion of Engineering Ceramics and for this I was given 9 months use of a high temperature furnace - max temp @ 1600°C. I used two temps; 1200°C and 1400°C. The furnace has to be kept on full time so 9 months solid, but at the end if it I had to turn it off so lobbed a few different things in using crucibles. Naturally inquisition gets the better of you. ;) I had a few pieces of different steels. The furnace took less than 2 days to cool down and all of the steels included a couple that had melted could be removed and touched - slightly warm after that time and that's whilst inside a very well insulated furnace.

There is absolutely no way that molten Iron from thermite or molten steel from thermite is going to lay around in a liquid state for much time even in a fire because the temperatures generated are below the steels melting point.
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Bingo. Thank you for illuminating the subject so crisply (tho - little good will it it do us :rolleyes: )
 
Christopher7 said:
Wrong!

The exposure is good, the colors are close, obviously shot by a pro. He/she has adjusted for the light.
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You know this how?
Anyway - so what's the black stuff in the grapple jaws then, Chris?
 
KTB said:
And your theory is that magic kill-a-column super nano thermite was used for disintegrating the columns?
Care to tell more about this? Amount of thermite, how was it applied etc.
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WTC 7 fell at free fall and that cannot happen in the progressive collapse NIST proposes. Their computer model did not do that.

End of story.

Deal with it!
 
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