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Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

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Seymour Butz said:
They couldn't.

Hence the delusional claims of thermite - to start the collapses - AND explosives to clear the way - since the sound would be covered up.
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In my video, in all cases the detonations of demolitions charges are much louder (and of course sharper and more percussive) than the building collapses.

Truther claims require that thousands of times the amount of conventional demolition explosives be used. Their claims are nonsensical on their face.
 
Heiwa said:
Yes, the upper part of WTC 1 had obviously much less mass than he lower part of WTC1 ... and should therefore bounce? Not really - you have to look at what happens locally to the structures of the parts.
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I agree. The 'bounce' argument is absurd. Things bounce when they come in contact with a solid surface.

You are right - both parts will be damaged. And when the smaller part is damaged enough there is no further damage.
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Correct. In the case of the north tower, the top section will be destroyed after about 10 floors.

NIST and Bazant disagree completely. The smaller mass and weaker structure crush down the bigger mass and stronger structure by compressing the latter, step by step! Happens all the time according them. Never seen before according me.
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We are in agreement on this.

What is the mechanism for converting the vertical kinetic energy of gravity to horizontal kinetic energy sufficient to rip exterior framework sections apart and eject them 500 to 600 feet?
 
Seymour Butz said:
Speaking of silent....

Does anyone have any info on how loud the actual collapses were?

I ask because of the common claim that the explosives would have been covered up by THAT sound. I believe that the interior SPL levels would have been around 190dB by going here : http://www.makeitlouder.com/Decibel Level Chart.txt and by doing some cypherin' (Jethro D Bodine style) that the exterior SPL levels would have been AT LEAST 140-150dB.

Or, has anyone taken the probable energy released, spread over time of the collapses, and come up with a reasonable SPL range for the actual collapses?
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Any explosion that were used to cut the steel supports would have shown up on the siesmic recording done by the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University, in Palisades, NY
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/seismic.html
All the siesmographs picked up was the plane impacts and the collapse.

Controlled demolition of the WTC towers is a joke. Watch any video or film on the process and you will see the months of hard work and preperation needed to perform a controlled demolition.
 
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Gravy said:
In my video, in all cases the detonations of demolitions charges are much louder (and of course sharper and more percussive) than the building collapses.

Truther claims require that thousands of times the amount of conventional demolition explosives be used. Their claims are nonsensical on their face.
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Are you a demolitions expert? Do you know that there over a thousand explosives?
You go on and on about the audio aspect and claim "It can't be a CD because of the lack of audio evidence." This is reverse logic, looking for a reason to deny.
 
Christopher7 said:
Are you a demolitions expert? Do you know that there over a thousand explosives?
You go on and on about the audio aspect and claim "It can't be a CD because of the lack of audio evidence." This is reverse logic, looking for a reason to deny.
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Wow! Allrighty then! So you can provide us with evidence of silent explosives?
 
The hush-a-boom theory surfaces, yet again. This should be good.
 
Christopher7 said:
What is the mechanism for converting the vertical kinetic energy of gravity to horizontal kinetic energy sufficient to rip exterior framework sections apart and eject them 500 to 600 feet?
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The collapse itself provides all of the energy required for the lateral ejecta.

Christopher7 said:
Are you a demolitions expert? Do you know that there over a thousand explosives?
You go on and on about the audio aspect and claim "It can't be a CD because of the lack of audio evidence."
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In the context of what you are arguing the noise aspect is particularly damning. This isn't a technical aspect requiring expertise level insight in the demolition business, it's basic material that doesn't require much to understand. You argue that the only way large support members from the towers could have been ejected is through explosives, and that as such the must have been pre-planted explosives. The problem is that you don't seem to grasp the magnitude of energy required for any kind of shape charges to eject large debris out such distances. This has been explained to you before, and if things go as I expect, you will continue to ignore this just as Architects and Engineers for 911 truth have done for the last few years. The noise would be loud enough to make the entire population in the immediate and outlying vicinity deaf from blunt trauma to the ear drums, and don't forget the shrapnel and the damage to windows on all nearby structures which were not catastrophically damaged by the collapses themselves.


Christopher7 said:
This is reverse logic, looking for a reason to deny.
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LOL that's hilarious XD
Unfortunately that's a pretty hollow excuse Chris... You claim that the argument of the lack of noise is "reverse logic"? Looking for a means to deny? You still haven't explained how powerful those explosives would have had to been to eject NOT JUST "CUT" BUT EJECT full-sized structural members out 600 ft!!! What the hell?

Just curious, do you by chance use thermite as an argument for more silent demolition like AE911's Richard Gage does? Because your entire position including all its flaws sure match well with theirs...
 
Thermite cuts too slow and can't eject a beam section. Shaped charges can only cut a few inches into steel. You would have to remove large sections of steel by hand using plasma or acytelene torches from the beams on order for the shaped cutting charges to detach a beam. Ther were alot of beams and columns and that's a hell of alot of prepatory work that would have gone on for months. Someone would have noticed something amiss.
 
Ok...I'm still a noob here. C7, do you believe that explosives or thermite (including, nanothermite, thermate, superthermite, superduperthermite, ultrafatfreethermite, or others) :) caused the towers to collapse? Just curious.


Off topic: In just a few hours, the earth will have finished 41 complete orbits around the sun since I was abruptly ejected from my mother's womb. Please congratulate me for having a 100% success rate on cheating death during that time period. :)
 
No such thing as silent explosives. An explosion by definition is a rapid expansion of heated gasses. Any rapid expansion of air will produce a loud sound.

If you are going to use an explosive to eject steel there would have to be an enormous amount of displacement of air in order to propel the steel section away from the building.
Any displaceof air that significant to eject the steel section away from the building would create one hell of a sound.

It's not chemistry, it's physics that says that you can't have a silent explosive.
 
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Happy birthday McGuyver1968!!! The only thing I have for a gift is some chewing gum a rubber band and a paper clip. Maybe you can make a laptop from that for yourself. :)

I'm sure you get that joke all the time
 
GlennB said:
"all" the concrete was not pulverised. Not even close. Why do you think it was?
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Most of the concrete was pulverized to dust.

p.s. you didn't respond to my question about why you are still posting the "grappler" photo as evidence of steel temperatures at GZ, when we both agree it was taken at night.
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The crab claw* photo was taken at night but someone here pointed out that there were work lights flooding the area. The molten metal glob is orange on top and pale yellow at the bottom.
Color charts and photograph colors are not exact but they provide a reasonably accurate method of determining temperature of metal.

* The photos provided of a grapler are different that the crab claw in the photo in question. Graplers are for destroying buildings while the crab claw is for excavating. You can call it what you like but I am going to refer to it as a crab claw.
 
Christopher7 said:
What is the mechanism for converting the vertical kinetic energy of gravity to horizontal kinetic energy sufficient to rip exterior framework sections apart and eject them 500 to 600 feet?
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Oops, missed this the first time. But that is not as bad as missing logic thinking abilities.

Have you read my hypotheses? I call it my hypotheses because the dustclouds obscure the actual events so the exact events can't be monitored. What can be monitored is the absence of explosives.

But just in case you ignored my post, here it is again:

I don't agree with this hypotheses. Mine is that once most/all the floors were destroyed, huge parts of the outside structure remained standing. This was not one massive side, but made up of hundreds of interlocking beams, unsupported. Somewhere along the standing part, the interlockings gave way and the whole section started to fall sideways, pulling the rest of the side with it. Something like this:

| ----> | ---> |
| ----> | ---> | ----> /
| ---> / ---> / ----> /
| --> | ---> / --> __|
| --> | --> | --> |
| --> | --> | --> |
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Macgyver1968 said:
Ok...I'm still a noob here. C7, do you believe that explosives or thermite (including, nanothermite, thermate, superthermite, superduperthermite, ultrafatfreethermite, or others) :) caused the towers to collapse? Just curious.


Off topic: In just a few hours, the earth will have finished 41 complete orbits around the sun since I was abruptly ejected from my mother's womb. Please congratulate me for having a 100% success rate on cheating death during that time period. :)
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Over the last year or two the "controlled demolition" theory has evolved (or devolved if you prefer). When I first came into it all, it was Conventional explosives. Then, I guess, because of the lack of audio evidence, the thermite theory began to make rounds. Today, it seems to cover their basis, the "conventional" truther "wisdom" seems to suggest a "hybrid" theory involving both.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
Over the last year or two the "controlled demolition" theory has evolved (or devolved if you prefer). When I first came into it all, it was Conventional explosives. Then, I guess, because of the lack of audio evidence, the thermite theory began to make rounds. Today, it seems to cover their basis, the "conventional" truther "wisdom" seems to suggest a "hybrid" theory involving both.

TAM:)
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Both Huh? Wow..never heard that one. The 4 TS'ers on my other board seem to be thermite men...although I'm not sure about Psikeyhackr..all he talks about is the total amount of steel and concrete in the towers. :)

I'll have to re-think my common sense argument for that one. He does know explosive create super sonic shock waves, right? That when you heat up air it expands..and the faster and hotter it is heated, the faster and stronger it expands? or should I include that? :)
 
Macgyver1968 said:
Our little group at SF consists of Psikeyhackr, Scott31x, Headspin, and Tony Szamboti. Such a fine collection of woo. Any of those names strike a bell?
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Psikeyhackr posts here and did a model of the WTC with weights that proves his delusion of something; but has nothing to do with 911. He would be a great member for Gage.
 
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