Canadian raw milk merchant on trial

[Highly Selassie]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5hlHi3D4I14h_aQROMkNHpQRJZg1w

NEWMARKET, Ont. — A small Newmarket, Ont., court is crowded with spectators today to hear details of an orchestrated, armed raid on a farm by about two dozen officers and government officials investigating the sale of raw milk.

It is illegal to sell raw milk in Canada. The farmer in this case, Michael Schmidt, feels the law is unjust and that people should have the freedom to purchase raw milk if they wish. He claims raw milk is safe and healthier than pasteurized milk (conveniently ignoring the science behind pastuerization, and the statistics that show its benefits). Based on my limited understanding of Canadian case law, I doubt Mr. Schmidt will be successful.

I'm of the viewpoint that allowing people the "freedom" to engage in unhealthy, irrational behavior like purchasing and consuming raw milk has a cumulative negative effect on society, especially in a country where the taxpayers share the burden of health care. As we all know, there are people who let ideology cloud their judgment. Also, this is a rather petty "freedom" and is inconsequential when put into context. But enough about what I think, what about you? Do you think the government is right to restrict the sale of raw milk, or is this more unnecessary government intrusion?

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I've never been harmed drinking raw milk. No one I know has ever been poisoned by it, not even "city kids" who have never been to a farm before.

However, it can be very, very dangerous. Think of the number of people who died before Louis Pasteur.

If you have access to a cow or a goat and you want to drink it, that's your affair. Selling it commercially is another matter.

 

[Corsair 115]

If you have access to a cow or a goat and you want to drink it, that's your affair. Selling it commercially is another matter.

Well, that's the crux of the case. The farmer in question did not sell the raw milk directly, but rather sold shares in the cows and the shareholders were given the raw milk. The goverment contends this still constitutes selling raw milk; the farmer disagrees.

 

[Puppycow]

Unnecessary nanny-statism. As long as I don't have to pay for the consequences, why should I care if someone wants to play russian roulette with raw milk?

And, since the consumers are also the owners, it seems like he has figured out a way to get people what they want and comply with the letter of the law.

Anyone who thinks that recreational drugs should be legalized should also be against this kind of nanny-statism.

 

[Checkmite]

Unnecessary nanny-statism. As long as I don't have to pay for the consequences, why should I care if someone wants to play russian roulette with raw milk?

In Canada, where the health-care system is State-funded, the people do pay the consequences.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

In Canada, where the health-care system is State-funded, the people do pay the consequences.

Plus they give it to their children who trustingly drink it because it's natural.

 

[Wolfman]

At the very least, if you're going to sell a potentially unsafe product to others, it should be required that the product be labeled as such. "Raw milk may contain salmonella, E. coli and listeria, and could result in sickness or death" And what's gonna' happen to this guy when someone drinks his raw milk, they get sick, and then decide to sue him? Does he have all of them sign legal waivers before providing the milk to them?

However, I do think that the reaction was way overblown. Twenty-four officers raided his home when they decided to crack down on this evil purveyor of potentially tainted dairy products. Come on...were they afraid he was gonna' squirt them with poison milk from the cows' udders?

I appreciate the safety issues; and, at very least, there should be regulations requiring that people purchasing such a product be made fully aware of the risks before doing so. But twenty-four police officers? A huge waste of money and resources for a problem that, by any sane measure, is quite a minor one.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Well, that's the crux of the case. The farmer in question did not sell the raw milk directly, but rather sold shares in the cows and the shareholders were given the raw milk. The goverment contends this still constitutes selling raw milk; the farmer disagrees.

About an hour and a half away from where I live, an Amish family sells both raw milk and butter made therefrom. You have to get on a waiting list. Someone ought to tell the Canadian government to unbunch the panties, IMO.

It's yummy. Very yummy. Super mostly glorious and outstanding yummy, if you get my drift.

DR

 

[Puppycow]

In Canada, where the health-care system is State-funded, the people do pay the consequences.

So, maybe the government should force people to live healthy lifestyles, including controlling their diet and making them exercise. After all, if society has to pay your doctor's bill, it should also get to make your health decisions for you.

 

[Puppycow]

Some statistics

From 1998 to May 2005 CDC identified 45 outbreaks of foodborne illness that implicated unpasteurized milk, or cheese made from unpasteurized milk. These outbreaks accounted for 1,007 illnesses, 104 hospitalizations, and two deaths. This is based on information in CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report for the week of March 2, 2007. The actual number of illnesses was almost certainly higher because not all cases of illness are recognized and reported.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Some statistics

Two dead in seven years.

BFD

DR

 

[quixotecoyote]

Two dead in seven years.

BFD

DR

Your summation ignores both the 1000+ illnesses and, more importantly, the fact that these statistics occurred in a country in which milk intended for consumption by humans must, by law, be pasteurized.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm intrigued by the reports of a marked difference in taste. I worked on a dairy farm as a student and drank the stuff fairly often. I didn't notice a huge difference from pasteurised milk.

However, when I've been in America, I have noticed that standard supermarket milk does seem to taste quite different. I also note that it's quite hard to get milk which has just been pasteurised, and not homogenised, fortified with vitamin D and a lot of other manipulations. I wonder whether that's more the cause of taste differences rather than pasteurisation - which was after all devised to make as little difference to the taste as possible.

Rolfe.

 

[Beerina]

Two dead in seven years.

BFD

DR

That's a light weekend for Detroit.

 

[Bikewer]

A few months ago they had a clever segment on one of the NPR shows about this sort of situation. A fellow who wanted to become a for-real Oliver Wendell Douglass (Eddie Albert's character in Green Acres) bought a small farm complete with a couple of dairy cows.
In short order, he was approached by locals who wanted to buy raw milk. He found that it was indeed illegal to sell the stuff; but the owner of the cow could consume all he wanted.
So, he also found that it was the practice in this area for individuals in the community to buy "shares" in the cow, thus assuming partial ownership....

 

[pgwenthold]

"Raw milk" is a great scam. Instead of selling your milk to a dairy, like most dairy farmers do, getting maybe $1.50/gal, you sell it to some sucker who is willing to pay you $12/gal.

Of course the dairy farmers are ALL for promoting the greatness of raw milk...

 

[Fiona]

I have been digging about a bit but I must say the information is not all that easy to get and interpret. For example this abstract is confusing in it's conclusion: I would love to see the whole article but have not access to it.

http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...DA27723AA6.tomcat1?fromPage=online&aid=162383


And this one is similar.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=a27ed35ecb0d42229ddee1156eb70bb6


What seems to be clear is that milk and milk products account for about 2-5% of food based outbreaks of disease: and that unpasteurised milk accounts for a small majority of those. Since they do not give figures for the comparative consumption I cannot make much sense of that because I do not know how much pasteurisation occurs in France: I do know that quite a lot of their cheese is not pasteurised and I personally seek out unpasteurised cheese because I think it tastes better.

ETA:http://whqlibdoc.who.int/bulletin/1987/Vol65-No3/bulletin_1987_65(3)_397-406.pdf

I also noticed the article linked above and the section on "review of reported infections" is interesting: as is the conclusion section

 

[casebro]

So TWO hospitalizations is considered an "outbreak"?

Anybody notice that current technology enables a bacteria count on every bucket of milk? So, certify a low count, and sell away!

And re: farm milk vs supermarket, I did notice that 'regular milk' on the shelf is only 4% fat, but that fresh milk may be up to 14%. I'll betcha there is a noticeable difference there.

And pasteurization being hot enough to kill germs, I would think it could also degrade some proteins and enzymes. The raw milk faddists may not be all woo. Just not enough changes to show in our usual cost/benefit industrial agriculture business.

 

[Rolfe]

14% butterfat?????? Come again?

4% is standard, and what you'll get from the average Friesian. Channel Island breeds will top that, but 14%???

Evidence?

Oh, and pasteurisation doesn't change the butterfat content anyway. And the whole point of the pasteurisation process is that it's enough to make the milk bacteriologically safe for several days (it doesn't sterilise it), without significantly denaturing the milk proteins. Despite what anyone "would think" without actually checking up. Sheesh, the things people say on the internet. Electrons take on anything....

Rolfe.

 

[Travis]

Has Canada also outlawed tobacco and alcohol? They're probably a much bigger burden to the NHS than raw milk.