Native American myths/traditions support Bigfoot? A critical look.

[RayG]

Yoo hoo geniuses I posted the link where any one of you sharp as tacs boys could have clicked MR mouse and gone to it. Also the name of the autrhor of the quote is listed with the quote.

Obviously you've confused a source with THE source. No-mah, we ain't talking 'bout where YOU got your anecdote, we want the ORIGINAL source of the anecdote. (you know, where did the author get HIS information from, or did he just make it up?) Stay off the eggnog... RayG

 

[Crowlogic]

Obviously you've confused a source with THE source. No-mah, we ain't talking 'bout where YOU got your anecdote, we want the ORIGINAL source of the anecdote. (you know, where did the author get HIS information from, or did he just make it up?) Stay off the eggnog... RayG

So Ray what pray tell is THE source? Did it ever occur to you that the name attached to the end of the quote is THE source? And how can anybody be certain that any of the sources quoted here are quotes from anything resembling a THE source?

 

[rockinkt]

I got to be Crowlogic by way of associating with Cree Elder Don Cardnial. <snip> If anyone would have had knowledge it would have been him. [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_18755494f0f742cbb4.jpg[/qimg]

Crow - you need to explain your above statement (my bold).
Why would he have had more knowledge than you, me, or anyone else?
The only references you made to him in that post was of his Cree ancestry and that he claimed the title of an "elder".
Anyone would logically conclude that you were assuming his ancestry gave him some sort of inside knowledge.
Trying to wriggle out of such a false assumption on your part by later posting that you meant his bushcraft - not his ancestry and cultural heritage - is pretty lame and flies in the face of your original post.

Your pathetic reference to "attack dog mentality" is understandable given your inability to produce logical and cohesive arguments that have some sort of basis in fact.

If you do not like to be corrected on such major blunders - do not continue to make them.

 

[Crowlogic]

Crow - you need to explain your above statement (my bold).
Why would he have had more knowledge than you, me, or anyone else?
The only references you made to him in that post was of his Cree ancestry and that he claimed the title of an "elder".
Anyone would logically conclude that you were assuming his ancestry gave him some sort of inside knowledge.
Trying to wriggle out of such a false assumption on your part by later posting that you meant his bushcraft - not his ancestry and cultural heritage - is pretty lame and flies in the face of your original post.

Your pathetic reference to "attack dog mentality" is understandable given your inability to produce logical and cohesive arguments that have some sort of basis in fact.

If you do not like to be corrected on such major blunders - do not continue to make them.

TO answer you bolded type. Well I've been for most of my life somewhat of an urban hick. A New York urban hick. I proved to myself that Bigfoot wasn't lurking anywhere in New York State. Now I can tell you all about what a New York City rat looks like and what an acified Lake in the Adirondaks looks like. The PH of it too. And if anyone were to ask me about it I could tell them first hand. So apply that to a Canadian Cree Elder who had been collecting and preserving the knowledge of his people from an area that maintains a history of Sasquatch/Bigfoot accounts. How could he not have had something to offer on the subject? He could have just as easily said no there's nothing to it or he could have said yes its real, neither you or I will ever know the answer to that question. However I've never set foot in Alberta so yes Don Cardinal had a leg up on me and would have offered either a positive or negative answer. Sure he knew a heck of a lot more about Alberta than I ever will.

The point is I don't have to assume anything about the man. I knew the man and I knew the misson that the man had undertaken. But no I don't believe that it is posible to seperate the man's knowledge from his ancestry. It would have been an insult to do so. I'm surprised that with all of your "research" with the Cree that you didn't run across his name or the man himself. I find that a little odd that you didn't.

 

[RayG]

So Ray what pray tell is THE source?

That's exactly what I'm asking. What documentation, if any, provides supportive evidence for Kieffer Bunting's assertion that Nabagaboo means Bigfoot in Cree?

Did it ever occur to you that the name attached to the end of the quote is THE source?

Yes, which is why I question the validity of the statement. Did it ever occur to you that wishful thinking on your part won't turn his fiction into fact?

And how can anybody be certain that any of the sources quoted here are quotes from anything resembling a THE source?

You can't without some digging. Someone's 'say so' may be good enough for you, but I require evidence.

RayG

 

[rockinkt]

<snip> So apply that to a Canadian Cree Elder who had been collecting and preserving the knowledge of his people from an area that maintains a history of Sasquatch/Bigfoot accounts. How could he not have had something to offer on the subject?
The point is I don't have to assume anything about the man. I knew the man and I knew the misson that the man had undertaken. But no I don't believe that it is posible to seperate the man's knowledge from his ancestry. It would have been an insult to do so. I'm surprised that with all of your "research" with the Cree that you didn't run across his name or the man himself. I find that a little odd that you didn't.

Once again - pay attention this time - the Cree have no history of a creature we refer to as sasquatch or Bigfoot.
Where are you getting this idea that there is a history of Sasquatch accounts from their traditional areas?
He could not have had knowledge from his ancestry about sasquatch or Bigfoot because that is not part of the Cree lore.
By the way - I note that you now are admitting that you did assume his ancestry had something to do with sasquatch/Bigfoot and that is why you brought his ancestry forward. Yet, you argued previously that was not why you brought his ancestry forward when I calld you on it. Try to be consistent, will ya'.

There are a lot of Cree people spread over a large area. I may have run into Mr. Cardinal at some meetings or functions - but I do not remember him.
Reading his Bio (pretty damn impressive) - it appears he was in Manitoba while I was doing my thing in northern Alberta and Saskatchewan - so that may account for it. Also, his political work was years before I entered the picture. Judging by the timelines - he likely was one of the leaders in the fight to get universal free medicine and medical care for all Treaty Indians falling under the Treaties of the Prairies.

I used to eat lunch at the Kapown Centre (world's best moose and bannock - served every day) when I was at the Kapawe'no reserve. I met and talked to the people involved in the traditional healing treatment programmes. Again - I do not remember him or his name from that either. This further leads me to believe that he was pretty well ensconced in Manitoba at that time.
I did work with the then chief of his band - Jimmy Badger -at the Sucker Creek reserve. (still got shares in their oil and gas drilling company).

 

[William Parcher]

MABRC broaches the topic of evolution (various new threads). This leads to some predictable responses in support of creationism.

 

[JcR]

I got to be Crowlogic by way of associating with Cree Elder Don Cardnial. Dozens of Sweat Lodges and hundreds of stories Don told. Many were based on occurances during vision questing and shamonic trance. I recently lamented to a cohort from thoses times that I never once asked Don anything about Sasquatch. If anyone would have had knowledge it would have been him. However in those days the subject was light years away from my focus. Dan Cardnial was a good man I miss him.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_18755494f0f742cbb4.jpg[/qimg]

I have heard of Don Cardinal, though I never had met him
Heard stories of him. He was well respected.
I used to Burn with Vern, as some of us called it.
Vern Harper is a great inspiration to me

 

[JcR]

I was looking for the J.W. Burn's article Introducing B.C.'S Hairy Giants.
If it was already posted sorry I missed it.

http://sasquatch-bc.com/burns.html

 

[qayak]

My tribe, Athabascan, was more pragmatic. I asked my mom, who was raised in the old ways, if the males of our tribe went on spirit quests. She said "What the hell would you do that for?"

I was talking with my brother-in-law's mother several years ago, she was Interior Salish (don't know what the new name is), and she brought up the subject of a Pow Wow which was taking place locally.

She stated that the greatest threat to Native culture is this type of events. I paraphrase here but the gist went something like this,

"All the young people are not dancing our dances. They don't know how, they never learned. They are dancing movie Indian dances. We never lifted our feet off the ground, and we only wore plain doeskin dresses. Now they have beads and feathers and bells and buttons . . . and they jump all over the place! That's not our tradition and if you are going to trade your tradition for another, why would you change it for that of a movie Indian instead of simply adopting that of modern society with medicine, electricity and all the rest?"

She was a traditionalist with great wisdom in my opinion.

 

[manofthesea]

Let me add that she said our tribe does believe in the Happy Hunting Ground after death.

Indians at americanindiantribe.com discussed bigfoot briefly during the recent Georgia thang. They said it's a taboo subject, but a couple of them mentioned encounters. Mostly they think it's supernatural though, some kind of forest guardian. I haven't posted there in awhile, and mostly in the word games thread. That's how we roll.

 

[Tricky]

Several bickering posts split to AAH. Please attack the argument and not the arguer.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

 

[Telaynay's G'son]

I have held the Spanish Conquistador helmet (probably from one of DeSoto's expeditions) given to a cousin by an old Creek Nation gentleman from Mhoontown, Alabama. It is ~11" in length and as such, much smaller than the one shown in the movie, "Dancing with Wolves".

It is an artifact from one of the aforementioned sorties through NW Alabama and the Creek gentleman made mention of the Dogs ridden by the Spaniards as well as their other dogs (probably some variation of Great Pyrenees, et. al.) which were sent ahead into the NA encampments to terrorize the inhabitants.

Anyway, the point is I have heard such a reference before (2005) as well.

 

[makaya325]

The fact that over 60 cultures describe the same exact animal, isolated 100's of miles from each other, is significant. Please dont even compare that to any leprechaun or unicorn, since their is no cryptic creature that has a history even close to Sasquatch

 

[kitakaze]

Kitz, there are Hoopas who dont believe due to the fact that none of them ever heard from the 1st generation. I had the opportunity to listen to stories told by 1st generation hoopas, and it argues that sasquatch is a real animal. That doesnt mean i claim it as a fact.

Kitz, for every indian that says it cant possibly be real, there are 100's who think otherwise

Mayaka, here we may continue the discussion. I think you have to take things in a more realistic sense in terms of the way the average person regards Bigfoot. I think in popular culture, Bigfoot enthusiasts have encouraged the idea that many natives carry beliefs and traditions regarding Bigfoot but time and again we've seen in this thread that upon closer examiniation, that doesn't turn out to be the case.

I think when you say for every 1 native who doesn't believe in Bigfoot there are 100 who do, that you are arbitrarily pulling another number out of the hat, such as you do when you speak of thousands of Tibetan blue bears or tens of thousands of Gigantopitheces.

If you wouldn't mind, please share with us the name of sasquatch in the tales you have heard. It might very well be something we have discussed previously in this thread.

 

[makaya325]

The blue bears and the giganto's must have existed in the 1000's due to the mvp.

Also, how do you explain the fact that Natives regard sasquatch as real as any other mammal and an "ordinary animal"? Why should the known species depicted by them be accepted as fact, but sasquatch isnt even considered?

 

[makaya325]

Kitz, I view squatch kind of like a big brother. I feel comfortable with the existence of him. Also Kitz, how come people dismiss face-to-face encounters as not even likely or possible, and dismiss it at face value?

 

[kitakaze]

The fact that over 60 cultures describe the same exact animal, isolated 100's of miles from each other, is significant.

Please provide evidence of this claim. Keep in mind that to the contrary, that is the very thing that this thread has shown not to be the case. I will make it easy for you. Please tell me two separate native tribes isolated from eachother by 100's of miles describing the exact same sasquatch type creature. I warn you, Mayaka, this is something I've been studying for quite some time now and I will not accept any baseless claims or heresay.

Please dont even compare that to any leprechaun or unicorn, since their is no cryptic creature that has a history even close to Sasquatch

I have seen it speculated that leprechauns and various other diminutive folklore beings are but ancestral memories of small hominins such as Homo floresiensis. Also unicorns can easily said to be based on a number of known creatures that were unfamiliar in antiquity. If you like I will be happy to provide you with links to material that has been passed of as evidence of living unicorns. You must take care when so blithely dismissing the traditions and folklores of other cultures. You don't like it when people dismiss Bigfoot, right?

 

[makaya325]

Kitz, its just a bad analogy that insults me. I think when people bring up totally mythical animals, and try to compare it to a possible existing one, its nothing but poking fun at other peoples views

 

[makaya325]

I agree Kitz, myths have their basis in reality, so why is it unreasonable to assume that Bigfoot was based on an animal that fits something shown in the fossil record?