Hafrada is worse than Apartheid

[Thunder]

There are no good guys. There are no bad guys. There are only two sides that hate each other. The Palestinians, unlike the African Americans and unlike Native South African's are not at all willing to work with Israel to find a solution.

Not only has Saudi Arabia initiated a peace agreemant, calling for full withdrawal for full peace, and not only has the Arab League fully accepted this proposal, and not only has the PLO accepted this, but even Hamas has accepted such a concept (with reservations of course).

Before 1967...it was the three "No's": No peace, no talks, no recognition.

Now its full peace for full withdrawal. I think we are getting somewhere.

Not willing to work with Israel? BS.

 

[RandFan]

I mean, give me a break. This is racism and discrimination. This is Hafrada.

You can't be intellectually honest AND continue to stick your fingers in your ears. I condemn the policies of Israel. That doesn't excuse the racism and atrocity carried out by the Palestinians and in the end there are not a lot of options for Israel so long as the Palestinians demand that Israel simply cease to exist. Minorities in America might just as well demand that America stop existing. Hell, Native Americans might be justified in such a demand but it’s not going to happen.

The sooner folks figure that out the better it will be for everyone.

 

[RandFan]

Not willing to work with Israel?

Oh please, how many times has Israel made concessions and offers only to be rebuffed? You cherry pick your facts.

 

[Thunder]

You can't be intellectually honest AND continue to stick your fingers in your ears. I condemn the policies of Israel. That doesn't excuse the racism and atrocity carried out by the Palestinians and in the end there are not a lot of options for Israel so long as the Palestinians demand that Israel simply cease to exist. Minorities in America might just as well demand that America stop existing. Hell, Native Americans might be justified in such a demand but it’s not going to happen.

The sooner folks figure that out the better it will be for everyone.

useless

 

[Thunder]

Oh please, how many times has Israel made concessions and offers only to be rebuffed? You cherry pick your facts.

Well, now 500 million Arabs are making an offer..and Israeli isn't even willing to sit down and talk about.

Oh...how the tables have turned.

 

[RandFan]

useless

No. Truth. Sorry if it hurts.

 

[RandFan]

Well, now 500 million Arabs are making an offer..and Israeli isn't even willing to sit down and talk about.

I don't speak for Israel. I'm happy to condemn them for their errors. Given that the leaders of Palestine are shooting rockets into Israel and they are calling for the destruction of Israel then I'm not sure what hope their is in this but fine, I'm happy to call on Israel to sit down and discuss and work toward a peace settlement.

None of that changes any of my points though and it is a canard as far as the discussion at hand.

 

[Thunder]

I don't speak for Israel. I'm happy to condemn them for their errors. Given that the leaders of Palestine are shooting rockets into Israel and they are calling for the destruction of Israel then I'm not sure what hope their is in this but fine, I'm happy to call on Israel to sit down and discuss and work toward a peace settlement.

None of that changes any of my points though and it is a canard as far as the discussion at hand.

Funny how you ignore the fact that Abbas has condemned the rocket attacks..and even blaims Hamas for the current crisis.

Let alone the fact that NO rockets are being fired from the much larger West Bank.

How convenient..for you.

 

[Thunder]

I don't speak for Israel.

But you do apologize for them. Again and again.

If you are a rational and fair person, you will eventually have to hold Israel accountable for what they do.

That is...if.

 

[RandFan]

But you do apologize for them. Again and again.

This is dishonest. I'm willing to concede to the attoricty and crime of Israel which is far more than you are willing to do against Palestinians.

If you are a rational and fair person, you will eventually have to hold Israel accountable for what they do.

But I allready do. I have time and again condemned their actions. I condem their crimes. I condem their attrocity and to be sure, I concede that they have and do commit crimes and attrocity.

If you are a rational, fair and honest person you will eventually have to hold Palestinans accountable for what THEY do.

That is "if"...

 

[RandFan]

Funny how you ignore the fact that Abbas has condemned the rocket attacks..and even blaims Hamas for the current crisis.

Again, dishonest. I'm happy to acknowledge these facts. Doesn't change anything I've said.

Let alone the fact that NO rockets are being fired from the much larger West Bank.

I'm happy to concede this fact. Still doesn't change anything I've said.

How convenient..for you.

How convenient for you that you can claim anything you want regardless of whether it is true or not.

 

[Thunder]

Hamas attacks against Israeli civilians is a war crime. Both the rocket attacks and the suicide bombings. I have always stated this.

They do, however, have the legal right to kill combatants.

When the time comes, there should be war crimes trials for Hamas...and Israel.

 

[RandFan]

Hamas attacks against Israeli civilians is a war crime. Both the rocket attacks and the suicide bombings. I have always stated this.

They do, however, have the legal right to kill combatants.

I think war is immoral. I think the notion of legality is at best sketchy. However I'm willing to accept certain practical realities. That said, Israel reserves the same legal rights to kill compatants.

When the time comes, there should be war crimes trials for Hamas...and Israel.

I don't disagree.

 

[Thunder]

I think war is immoral. I think the notion of legality is at best sketchy. However I'm willing to accept certain practical realities. That said, Israel reserves the same legal rights to kill compatants.

I don't disagree.

thank God.

 

[volatile]

One living nearly 6,000 miles beyond Hamas missile range, I note.

In the current conflict, the Palestinian death-toll stands, currently, at 402, with over 2,000 injured. The number of Israeli casualties? FOUR.

It seems as if the real threat isn't from being in the path of Hamas rockets. It's being under the flightpath of the Israeli air force.

 

[Thunder]

yeah...but 4 dead Israelis equals 400 dead Palestinians.

Didnt you know?

 

[ddt]

yeah...but 4 dead Israelis equals 400 dead Palestinians.

Didnt you know?

It's eerie indeed how that 1:100 ratio keeps cropping up...

 

[Thunder]

It's eerie indeed how that 1:100 ratio keeps cropping up...

I find it very pathetic and very sad that many of my fellow Jews that I have talked to..think there is some sort of similarity between the death toll and the constant danger the Palestinians now face in Gaza..and the death toll and the danger Israelis face in southern Israel.

It does smack of a concept that..."1 dead Jew is as bad as 100 dead Arabs".

 

[TriskettheKid]

I find it very pathetic and very sad that many of my fellow Jews that I have talked to..think there is some sort of similarity between the death toll and the constant danger the Palestinians now face in Gaza..and the death toll and the danger Israelis face in southern Israel.

It does smack of a concept that..."1 dead Jew is as bad as 100 dead Arabs".

Yes or no:

The US should have stopped once they had retaliated against the Japanese with as much destruction as the Japanese had inflicted upon the US.

Seriously, I have no problem with the idea that Israel's done some pretty stupid **** over the years. I say this as a Jew. I say this as someone who knows quite a few people who have made aliyah. I say this as someone with ties to Israel.

But at some point, you've got to wake up to the reality of war. I don't care if 1 person dies, or if 100 do. If you are attacked, you respond. End of story.

Indiscriminate violence is unacceptable, and deserves a response.

 

[Thunder]

I am only talking about the reaction I have heard from some of my fellow Jews. They talk about the rockets on S'derot as if it is a 2nd Holocaust.