point 1.
Point 1. If we are finite and god is infinite, how is god fair...
Everything in life should have taught you by now that there can be
no "fair." Everyone is in different circumstances, if you are a parent
with multiple children all different ages and abilities, you understand
the point quite clearly. There can really be no "fair." There is a saying
in Christianity "God is Just, He is not fair. If He was fair then He would
send us all to hell." This is based on the incomplete understanding of
fairness and the English word "deserve." Often Christians will say that
"if God were fair, He would give us all what we deserve, and that is
hell." Often Pastor admit that they deserve to go to hell based on
their sinful actions, and that everyone who has sinned "deserves" to
go to hell. BUT this is a misunderstanding of the word "deserves."
It comes from Romans 3:23 BTW. It is saying that true "fairness"
rewards only based on performance, and that based on our performances
we ALL should be separated from a Holy God.
Re: fairness and deserve
It is much more sophisticated, and yet God Himself would set the
standard for the merits of what is "deserved." There can be no fairness
because everyone is in different circumstances.
and loving as he is described
Yes. Willing to gather Israel like a hen gathers her chicks under her wing.
A loving Father Who would "run" to meet and embrace the prodigal son
who has come to his senses (after humility in the pig's pen, BTW).
when he leaves your entire infinite fate in your hands
It is more than just this pragmatic understanding. First of all, we are not
puppets, we are created in God's Image for the purposes of eternal fellowship
with God IF we receive the gift of salvation (logical trusting of God to provide
redemption). We have volition. The ability to make choices, but those
choices are ultimately based on a variety of circumstances (including our
knowledge - this is why Jesus said "you shall know the truth and the truth
shall set you free) and the ability to reject God our Creator and reject His
gift of Love and Salvation.
It was often said, in true love "you can't say yes, if you can't say no." This
is part of the reason also by which God did not make us puppets, but desired
to create us in His Image for fellowship. He "gives" to us and we "thank" Him
in worship. This is logical. Just as it is logical for a painting to glorify an artist, so also it is logical for the creation to glorify the Creator and when we
worship God (fellowship with Him and thank Him for what He has done in our
lives) we are completed as His Children in the Parent/Child (Father/Son or daughter) relationship.
during the finite time you live on Earth?
Yes, mathematically this will approach zero for all of eternity and yet our
choices here at the beginning of time affect ALL of eternity. Ultimately,
there is a seemingly infinite set of circumstances which can affect your
decisions here on earth, SO the question becomes "What is a true choice?"
Something I look forward to discussing later.
We will spend an eternity in heaven or an eternity in hell based on our belief in god during the first ZERO percent of our life.
Yes. Everything in life should teach us right now that there are consequences for our actions. Eternal consequences when you think about
it cosmically. If you jump off a cliff and gravity becomes your worst friend,
it is an event that will affect all of eternity and history. Everything does, people just do not realize it because they live sort of this fantasy life where
"death" is the final reality.
Our state during the first 0% of our life would more correctly be referred to as an initial condition, or how we are created.
Here is the first misunderstanding. Within the closed set of assumptions
of Christianity we are first created in the state of fellowship with God and
our condition is "good"(not perfect because you can not have perfection
without experience and knowledge that is consistent with the perfect
Creator's omniscience). So God created us (Adam and Eve) with "choice"
but without a knowledge of "evil." (or the standard of "good" because
they did not really KNOW {through experience} God and that it was
always completely logical to choose and obey God). So the real question
becomes, "why did God create Adam and Eve "ignorant" of good and evil?"
Answer.
There was no "actual" evil.
Question everything.
"Evil" at this point in creation was only conceptual. Adam and Eve were
created before the fall of Lucifer to Satan, so evil was only a conceptual
potential bi product of choice at this point, it did not exist in practice.
God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. God did not create
evil, contrary to what the hyper calvinist or the universalist believes.
It is illogical for God to create something evil, just as it is illogical for God
to create evil itself. Although the Tanakh refers to God has forming light
and creating darkness, as well as both good and calamity coming forth
from God, God did not actually create evil. Evil was a potential bi product
of choice.
It was, however, inevitable. (which can be discussed later)
So the question becomes "is it "possible" to not be ignorant of evil" if evil
or disobedience does not exist yet? Do you have to experience disobedience
in order to know that it is bad? Can a baby learn without correction? Without
mistakes?
Why does a fair and loving god reward or punish us for all eternity based on how we are created by him?
This is what is called a pseudo question because it is a question with a false
assumption. petitio principii "How do you know we were created in a state
that we are judged by?" The fact is, there can be no fair only "grace."
Different levels of grace for different circumstances to which we are ALL born
under. Also, the state we are born under is the result of disobedience, it is
not exactly how God created us. Now it is true that Adam's choice condemned us all (since we are his offspring), but the scriptures teach us
that Christ can buy us BACK {out of condemnation}to God and make us no
longer condemned but forgiven.
Now, you may object, "I never chose to be born!" (under Adam's disobedience). Once again, just like "fairness" this comes back to logical
possibility. If we are eternal spirits created in God's Image then "How can
God create an
eternal spirit and ask them, "do you want to be created?"
and then annihilate them if they are truly eternal, or if there is a logic by
which God is bound which prevents God from doing what is illogical? (creating
someone in His Image who is not really eternal?)
This all comes down to the "real" problems of creating beings in God's Image
who are eternal, and how evil is a problem for those who could actually choose
disobedience.
Not the problem of explaining evil which we can go into in more detail.
~Michael
I never wrote that!