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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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zooterkin said:
Is that the sound of the bottom of a barrel being scraped that I hear? Is this really the best you can come up with as "Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth"? Suppose God exists, then one of two completely different stories must be truer than the other?
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You didn't answer my question. If you assume God exits do you believe it is absolutely certain (when looking at both Christianity and Islam) that one of those two religions' teachings are closer to God?
 
Hokulele said:
I do not assume god exists. That's your assumption.
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Surely you have the ability for arguments sake to assume God exists. I will assume God does not exist if you ask a question with that assumption.

ETA

You still didn't answer the question.
 
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DOC said:
You didn't answer my question. If you assume God exits do you believe it is absolutely certain (when looking at both Christianity and Islam) that one of those two religions' teachings are closer to God?
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If you assume God exists all religions are as likely as equal as each other to be the true one. The reason is that there is no evidence supporting God which could give one an edge.
 
DOC said:
Surely you have the ability for arguments sake to assume God exists. I will assume God does not exist if you ask a question with that assumption.
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If you assume Batman exists, is he homosexual due to his association with Robin, or heterosexual due to his association with Batgirl?

To answer your question, false dichotomy, as they could both be equally wrong and Ganesh will trample your foolish misunderstanding.

Um, what exactly does this have to do with whether or not the New Testament authors were telling the truth?
 
DOC said:
Suppose that there is a God. Then do you (or anyone else in here) believe it is absolutely certain (when looking at both Christianity and Islam) that the teachings of one of those two religions are closer to God?

I contend it is absolutely certain that one of those two religions is closer to God if you assume (for arguments sake) that God exists.
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Based on what?

If we're going based on fairness, I'd have to opt for one of the reincarnation ones. The monotheistic gods are dickheads.

Hey, what kind of evidence would it take for you to accept evolution is true? Why wouldn't you give us that kind of evidence to show us that "the new testament writers told the truth". Also, what about the parts where the truth is contradictory... like the multiple versions of Jesus' death on the cross and the aftermath. What exactly did he say... in what language... and how do they know... and were there zombies rising from their graves or not... and are they eye witness accounts or stories of stories of stories of eye witness accounts. How long after the supposed events was someone writing about this stuff... and why not mention of zombies in the historical records.

And do you really think thinking is as bad as doing when it comes to sinning? That's pretty wacky, don't you think. I mean thinking about killing someone or raping someone doesn't have the same consequences as actually doing it?

But I guess that's all off topic...

So about this evidence... why not just give us the sort of evidence that it would take to convince you evolution is true... that's fair, right? You have that don't you?
 
DOC said:
Suppose that there is a God. Then do you (or anyone else in here) believe it is absolutely certain (when looking at both Christianity and Islam) that the teachings of one of those two religions are closer to God?

I contend it is absolutely certain that one of those two religions is closer to God if you assume (for arguments sake) that God exists.
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A game! I like guessing games. The question is which fallacy will Doc go for?

OK my guess is that you are going to point out the fact that people are deserting Christianity in droves and the rise in support for Islam is a sign that it is the true word of God. Right ?
 
Lothian said:
If you assume God exists all religions are as likely as equal as each other to be the true one. The reason is that there is no evidence supporting God which could give one an edge.
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You don't need evidence to support something that you know exists. You're not doing what the first five words of the question is asking you to do (for argument sake), and that is to assume God exists. In order to answer the question -- I'm asking you to assume God exists. You're not doing that.

Surely you believe there is a possibility that God exists, if you don't then say so.
 
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Lothian said:
If you assume God exists all religions are as likely as equal as each other to be the true one. The reason is that there is no evidence supporting God which could give one an edge.
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DOC said:
You don't need evidence to support something that you know exists. You're not doing what the first five words of the question is asking you to do (for argument sake), and that is to assume God exists. In order to answer the question -- I'm asking you to assume God exists. You're not doing that.
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Doc,

I have done exactly what you said, and assumed God exists. However that simple assumption does not give her a personality nor does it predict her actions nor does it give veracity for one belief over another. You are making the mistake of assuming your God exists, the God you believe in. This imagined God perfectly matches your view.

You read in the bible that God sent his son to Earth. You read that your God massacred all on earth apart from one family in a flood. You then define a God as someone who sent his son to earth and killed all bar a handful in a flood.

You read your God is merciful. You see a man spend 3 years in agony before dying of cancer. You thank God for mercifully ending his life.
You see 500 firemen working night and day to dig through the wreckage of a collapsed building to save only 1 of the 300 people inside. You read your bible and thank your God for the miracle of keeping one alive.

The reason you think your God is the right match is that you are only looking for matches with your perception of your God.

We can assume there is a God. It could be a God who promised virgins to suicide bombers. It could be a God who only lets masturbators into heaven. It could be a schizophrenic God who likes murderers by day and victims by night. It could be a God who cares little for beliefs but who loves those that give to others. It could be a God who likes the rich more than the poor.

Which religion matches these Gods the best?

So my answer. Assuming a God exists we don’t know which religion is the most likely to be right, they have just as much chance as each other. However if we assume the Islamic god exists, Islam is the nearest match. If we assume your God exists it is Christianity.

Surely you believe there is a possibility that God exists, if you don't then say so.
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There is a possibility that a God exists. Each potential God is just as likely to exist as each other. What we now want is enough evidence to suggest that the probability that a specific one does exists is strong enough to make it a proposition worth seriously considering.
 
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DOC said:
You didn't answer my question. If you assume God exits do you believe it is absolutely certain (when looking at both Christianity and Islam) that one of those two religions' teachings are closer to God?
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You sneaky devil, trying to lure me into posting off-topic! No, I'm not falling for that one.




What? Oh.
 
DOC said:
You didn't answer my question. If you assume God exits do you believe it is absolutely certain (when looking at both Christianity and Islam) that one of those two religions' teachings are closer to God?
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Just so that someone answers this question, the answer appears to me to be no. It's possible that both those religions teach of a God that differs from the real one by precisely the same amount, but in different ways. Given that the description of God taught by a specific religion is finite, and is expressed in words, which have finite gradations of meaning, the probability of this outcome is non-zero, therefore one cannot be absolutely certain that it is not the case. It is also hypothetically possible, given a multidimensional but finite parameter space in which descriptions of God may be formulated, for there to be a real God, but for every religion's teaching of God to be inaccurate by precisely the same amount. Therefore, it is impossible even to be certain, in this hypothetical case, that there is any religion which gives a closer approach to an understanding of God than all others, let alone to form any kind of judgement as to which religion this might be.

Dave
 
If dead people can spy on you, which of the three are most likely spying on you now-- angels, demons, or dead ancestors?
 
Dave Rogers said:
Just so that someone answers this question, the answer appears to me to be no. It's possible that both those religions teach of a God that differs from the real one by precisely the same amount, but in different ways. Given that the description of God taught by a specific religion is finite, and is expressed in words, which have finite gradations of meaning, the probability of this outcome is non-zero, therefore one cannot be absolutely certain that it is not the case. It is also hypothetically possible, given a multidimensional but finite parameter space in which descriptions of God may be formulated, for there to be a real God, but for every religion's teaching of God to be inaccurate by precisely the same amount. Therefore, it is impossible even to be certain, in this hypothetical case, that there is any religion which gives a closer approach to an understanding of God than all others, let alone to form any kind of judgement as to which religion this might be.

Dave
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I can’t help wondering whether if we could work out exactly how probable the God was and then feed that into a Finite Probability Generator, give it a fresh cup of really hot tea and turn it on! We could make our own real God.
 
Lothian said:
I can’t help wondering whether if we could work out exactly how probable the God was and then feed that into a Finite Probability Generator, give it a fresh cup of really hot tea and turn it on! We could make our own real God.
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Sorry to be effable, but it's the description of God that's finite.

Dave
 
Well in case anyone is interested I started a thread in the religion section that deals with this "If you assume God exists is one religion closer to God" question that we've been talking about in here.
 
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