Deeper than primes

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If you look back to the initial discussion of his UR.PDF, you may notice he agreed with my criticism of his definitions of local and non-local...until he couldn't overcome the problems. At that point, he switched from the "oh, you are right" to "you are incapable of understanding my brilliant ideas."

I didn't comment on that exchange, but the problem I kept seeing in all of it was that Doron wants to difine Local and Non-Local independently of each other, and I don't think that can be done. For the same reason that these concepts are fundamental enough for Doron to set as interactive pairs, they have no meaning apart from each other. Outside of what Doron calls the "Researchable," they don't exist as self-sufficiant "atoms."

I've pointed out before, but it bears repeating:
. and ____ (point and line) as used by Doron are not mathematical signs. They are symbols he uses metaphorically. Often he uses math language to speak of what is not analytical content but what we can only speak of in a metaphorical way (qualities of consciousness).
This throws everybody for a loop.

But part of the fun of it all is that here is a curious thing: a concept of number that is not only quantity but quality.

Early on I asked Doron how he'd go about building an arithematic or algebra upon his ONNs. I see now that there is no way to manipulate and determine non-local presences of a given set. Doron has taken his ONNs as far as possible in terms of serial usage.

Their value then for him is philosophical. It's his way of speaking of the self as both a distinct element and a transcendent relation.

It's all still a very odd jigsaw puzzle.
The picture on the cover shows a spiral galaxy, but the pieces inside are not just black with stars, but there are red ones, green ones, and it seems more than one set of puzzle pieces have been thrown together in the same box.

I get groups of pieces connected, but can't find their connection to the others. When I think I'm on my way to the big picture, Doron sweeps it all off the table and tells me to stop using "step by step thinking."

So, here's my new idea, my new art concept. I'll just paste the pieces in rows on a large board without letting them touch. All parallel, yoiu see.
Take that, Jackson Pollack!
 
As near as I can tell, the root topic was never prime numbers, nor limits, nor the Cardinals, nor the Red Sox. It was this local and non-local pair that doron is unable to explain.

Non-local and Local are clearly appear in post #1 as fundamentals that without them this post (and generally, this thread) cannot be understood.

This thread is a very good example of the inability of an educational method that is based on one and only one observation type, to get things that are not based on this particular observation.

You have nothing to contribute to this thread anymore ( http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4254074&postcount=954 ).
 
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I'll help him with that, if he wants to try developing it, but if he instead accuses Euclid, Gödel, and everyone use of being idiots, then he needs to be challenged, not encouraged.
It is much more fundamental.

It is about observation as an inseparable property of the body of knowledge of the mathematical science.

No one is idiot here because observation has nothing to do of being smart or not.

Observation is about perception and how it is used to research.

As long as observation is not used by you as an inseparable property of the body of knowledge of the mathematical science, you cannot get my work.

Simple as that.
 
I'm going to be an insane person and attempt ot verify his statements. I admit, I've only taken up to Calc 2 but..

The non-local ur-element is the maximum entropy of itself (no differences can be found within it). Also a local ur-element is the maximum entropy of itself (no differences can be found within it).

Maximum entropy exists in both non-locality and locality, but they are opposite by their self nature, so if non-locality and locality are associated, then a non-entropic domain is created.

The history of such a domain is written by symmetry, where at the first stage symmetry is so strong that no outcome of this domain has a unique identity, and all we have is a superposition of identities.

Symmetry is collapsed because the opposite properties of non-locality and locality are expressed more and more until each local ur-element has a unique identity of its own.

This uniqueness, which is anti-entropic by nature, cannot exist without the association between the non-local and the local.

Opposite properties do not contradict each other, if they are based on NXOR connective.

A NXOR connective enables the existence of NXOR\XOR logic (non-locality and locality are associated, and associated realms have more than one entropy level).

A XOR connective does not enable the existence of NXOR\XOR logic (non-locality and locality are isolated, and isolated realms have maximum entropy).

This does not state what they are. Matter of fact, I can wring no consistant definition. I'd say you need to explain these. In plain. short, simple words.
 
I didn't comment on that exchange, but the problem I kept seeing in all of it was that Doron wants to difine Local and Non-Local independently of each other, and I don't think that can be done.

Please read page 6 of http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/UR.pdf .

If it is done then nothing is researchable because each state is closed on its own (we are at singularity) and we have total entropy.

I suggest you to read again post #1 about entropy and my explanation about A (an example of total locality) and = (an example of total non-locality) as clearly written from page 3 of http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/UR.pdf and forward.

Also please look at http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4266018&postcount=1032 in order to understand more . __
 
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.. well, if I cannot understand it b ecause it is not stated..
Please ask some detailed questions if you wish to communicate about this subject.

And again, if your initial attitude is to be insane, then please do not try to communicate.
 
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I have one question. Define clearly without linking the pdf I have no real time to read what local and non-local is.
1) This is not a question but an order.

2) In order to communicate please ask some detailed question about the quote that you have taken from post #1.
 
Please read page 6 of http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/UR.pdf .

If it is done then nothing is researchable because each state is closed on its own (we are at singularity) and we have total entropy.

I suggest you to read again post #1 about entropy and my explanation about A (an example of total locality) and = (an example of total non-locality) as clearly written from page 3 of http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/UR.pdf and forward.

Also please look at http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4266018&postcount=1032 in order to understand more . __

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Right away you deal in concepts, Distinct/Non-Distinct and Local/Non-Local.
These are conceptual pairs that have no meaning apart from each other.
These are concepts. These are words used in the context of the "researchable."
Yup, there's a "singularity" of no concept where you do not have Local/Non-Local interaction.

What I'm saying is that Non-Local and Local do not have a self state independent of each other within or outside the researchable.

They are terms used within and after the the process. Prior to it there is no talk, and there is no conceptual pair.

One is simply not able to define Non-Locality without reference to Locality and Locality without reference to Non-Locality.
Rather than insisting on each as an independent metaphysical enity, why not agknowledge their mutual dynamic in cognition.
You could present them as "poles" rather than "atoms" and still have the structure of interaction you desire.

I suspect you try to "atomize" them in an attempt to be mathematical in your presentation. Beware becoming a "cyclops" yourself.

It's a difficult road. Local and Non-Local are lingusitic terms.
Ordinary language uses analogy, metaphor, and symbol. While mathematics manipulates signs.
Often it seems to me, your intention is to create a kind of analogical mathematics.
That might be tilting at windmills, but sometimes a wild endevour can produce unexpected fruits. So carry on.
 
As regards Post 1032,
I grant you (for the purpose of this attack upon the windmills), the treatment of . and ____ as fundamentals without sub-components.
I'm content to follow your unique presentaion that a line is not composed of points.
. as representative of Locality, and ___ as representative of Non-Locality is a symbological usage for paired concepts as I tried to say in my previous post.
There's really no concept of them apart from . .

(I don't know hoe to put the point over the line as you do.)
 
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Right away you deal in concepts, Distinct/Non-Distinct and Local/Non-Local.
These are conceptual pairs that have no meaning apart from each other.

The non-distinct is a state of singularity, where concepts like locality or non-locality cannot be found.

Singularity is the non-researchable state but used as the invariant basis for any researchable environment.

"On top" of singularity there is the researchable universe, that exists as superposition of identities or not, where these identities are the result of Relation\Element Interactions, where Relation is the non-local aspect of this interaction, Element is local or non-local aspect of this interaction and Interaction is the non-distinct singular common source of both Relation and Element.

If only non-locality is considered, then we have no elements.

If only locality is considered, then we have no connections.

In both cases we simply have no researchable universe, but it does not mean that a non-researchable universe is not considered. It is simply non-researchable but used as the natural basis of the researchable.

Actually, the concept of pair or polarity is not less than singularity(trunk)\non-singularity(branch) organic structure, as illustrated by:

OM.jpg
 
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Funny how in post #1, you don't define what entropy is, what partitions are, what a multiset is. Also, you posted "Since a set has no repetitions, it has no entropy" and immedately claim that the set {1,1} has full entropy.

Oh, and why won't can't you define the following term: proper subset?
 
I didn't comment on that exchange, but the problem I kept seeing in all of it was that Doron wants to difine Local and Non-Local independently of each other, and I don't think that can be done. For the same reason that these concepts are fundamental enough for Doron to set as interactive pairs, they have no meaning apart from each other. Outside of what Doron calls the "Researchable," they don't exist as self-sufficiant "atoms."

By all rights, the two concepts should be fully complementary. Defining just one should be sufficient. I have noticed, though, that Doron seems unable to tell you what something is, but instead, how it behaves. May be that explains his myopia.

His attempt at defining finite set in UR.PDF was a good example of this.

It may be he can only conceive of things in terms of how they behave. Truly defining things would then be virtually impossible for him, even though he'd be convinced he understood the undefinable concept completely.

And, if you don't actually know what something is, you may not recognize the "non-" version of something to be a simple complement.

I've pointed out before, but it bears repeating:
. and ____ (point and line) as used by Doron are not mathematical signs. They are symbols he uses metaphorically. Often he uses math language to speak of what is not analytical content but what we can only speak of in a metaphorical way (qualities of consciousness).
This throws everybody for a loop.

Certainly the dots and underbars cannot be but metaphors (to borrow a Doron-esque phrasing). Doron, however, does far more than simply couch his non-analytical content in math-speak. He continually alleges it to be the new math, poised to correct 2,500 years of misguided mathematical thinking and incorrect results. That's the part that raises controversy.

But part of the fun of it all is that here is a curious thing: a concept of number that is not only quantity but quality.

Early on I asked Doron how he'd go about building an arithematic or algebra upon his ONNs. I see now that there is no way to manipulate and determine non-local presences of a given set. Doron has taken his ONNs as far as possible in terms of serial usage.

Their value then for him is philosophical. It's his way of speaking of the self as both a distinct element and a transcendent relation.

It's all still a very odd jigsaw puzzle.
The picture on the cover shows a spiral galaxy, but the pieces inside are not just black with stars, but there are red ones, green ones, and it seems more than one set of puzzle pieces have been thrown together in the same box.

I get groups of pieces connected, but can't find their connection to the others. When I think I'm on my way to the big picture, Doron sweeps it all off the table and tells me to stop using "step by step thinking."

Once upon a time, I reminded you of the dangers of facilitated communication. I'm seeing more of you in the above text than I am of Doron.
 
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