Vision From Feeling

[desertgal]

I was being quite sincere.

You were being quite sincere about being a reincarnation from a white dwarf star near Arcturus?

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

UncaYimmy:

Anita, I keep advising you to rule out the ordinary first. What I am about to say you may not like to hear, but I say it with the utmost sincerity:

1) Guys, especially in college, will say anything to get into a girl's pants.
2) When people encounter someone they consider "out there" (and claiming to see inside a body is "out there"), they will often humor the person rather than contradict them.
3) Both of the above are especially true when meeting someone for the first time.

I am not opposed ideas and welcome your comments. I realize this concern and as I stated in post #427 in my reply to Old man, and I quote myself as saying regarding this particular example, "Oh well, I can't wait to have real tests because how can I depend on the reliability of these persons' accounts of my accuracy? See, I embrace all results.", I am aware of this possibility. (This is starting to sound like a court case, referencing to quotes of legal paragraphs.)

If the picture on your website is of you, I'm going to say that, well, I wouldn't kick you out of bed for eating crackers. If I were to have met you in college, I would have totally played into what you were saying.

The picture is of me. Goodness. And that's why we're fortunate to have gentlemen like James Underdown and James Randi who have no such intentions we hope. Good thing then you and I didn't have the psychic medical diagnose in person. UncaYimmy are you flirting with me?

If I met you when I was 35, I would have said whatever I thought would prevent "setting you off" on some rant.

Well luckily no rants are allowed on formal paranormal investigations. It says so in the rules.

What I am describing happens every single day across the world. I am not saying that everybody behaves as I describe, but I'm willing to bet that just about everybody here can relate to having been in or seen situations like I described.

Still doesn't explain all the experiences I've had. How did I see vasectomy, and why would a person agree having had it if they hadn't? How do I say someone needs to pee and why would they then do that, if just to get me to bed or to avoid a rant? There are better ways of flirting with me than to pee on demand.

Meanwhile, not one of the billions of people to have graced this planet has been able to scientifically prove what you describe.

So, as a scientist, which hypothesis would you think more likely? ESP or people telling you what you want to hear?

Every scientific discovery begins with one person. We didn't all discover the theory of relativity; Einstein did that for us.

I have never met you in person, but based on how much effort you spend talking about your "abilities" and the fact that you would diagnose somebody you just met tells me that you may not be aware of the sheer force of your personality.

I didn't think I was doing this with my personality... I have asked the local skeptics group if we could record our first preliminary tests so that others can see how I work, and it should hopefully be apparent that my personality, looks, or ranting are not involved.

ETA: Not a single of my perceptions have involved a college student. College students are generally in good health compared to others (and if you'd think they have desctructive lifestyles, it takes a few years for it to materialize). And plenty of these perceptions involve women. I have often thrown in perceptions that I've known to be false, just to see if a person answers "no" to them and they did. I try different ways of checking my accuracy, so my personal, unverified experiences with the perceptions are not totally and entirely meaningless. I really have failed to dismiss the possibility of an extrasensory ability. And the only consequence of that is that I am now meeting with the local skeptics group to proceed.

 

[desertgal]

UncaYimmy:
Still doesn't explain all the experiences I've had. How did I see vasectomy, and why would a person agree having had it if they hadn't? How do I say someone needs to pee and why would they then do that, if just to get me to bed or to avoid a rant?

It's quite possible they were simply humoring you.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

desertgal:

It's quite possible they were simply humoring you.

It would still not explain every case of accurate perceptions, such as when I detect reproductive cysts and tell no one, and later the person is diagnosed and lets us know. No humor involved what so ever.

 

[Akhenaten]

Beleth, Ducky and the SGU:
Thank you Beleth for explaining the purpose of the Are you human? question as a measure against spamming. Ducky, as you should know white dwarf stars are among the oldest and highest evolved among the conscious inhabitants of the universe and do not fit with your random description, although I am sure you intended this as a joke.
I answered yes to the question to find out if that was what it was asking for, and, assuming that I'd not be welcome I decided to ask that you withdraw my request for registration. Respect the feelings of other people, arguing against how people understand themselves is like arguing against the emotions people experience. It's just one of those things that are personal that each is entitled to in their own way.
Yet again another skeptic says something that is totally untrue and speaks too soon, but I have grown tolerant to this behavior. Nowhere did I state that I would have supposedly tried to join SGU before joining the JREF! I was saying that I was considering finding other forums! Skeptics so often here misunderstand what I have said and done, and without first letting me explain what was really going on, they conclude some garbage and throw it at me. Skeptics are a special bunch for sure and quick to judge. But I love you guys.

Senex:

I was being quite sincere. Let's just move on to the objective of this thread. Let me go see what the British skeptics have concluded.

When the level of guano-crazy reaches this level, it makes little difference whether you're sincerely self-deluded or an obsessive troll. Either behaviour is indicative of something being not-quite-right. There may be other explanations, of course, but it's unlikely that any explanation will serve to regain your missing credibilty.

I would suggest a return to Arcturus may be your only hope of saving face at this point. Please call in and say hello to the Aten on your way home. And don't forget to write!

 

[Uncayimmy]

Anita, I simply can't believe that you would ask if I am flirting with you. Am I doing that bad of a job? Of course I am flirting with you. As a happily married father of two toddlers, flirting on the computer is all I have left.

Seriously, though, there are two issues we need to separate. When I talk about the force of your personality and your good looks, I am concerned only with the reliability of the answers you get. That is completely separate from what you are sensing.

Do I have an explanation for what you are sensing? Sure, I think it's your imagination presenting visual imagery based on subtle clues and/or unconscious recollections. You clearly enjoy the attention it brings you (who wouldn't?), so that reinforces the unconscious behavior.

Of course, I have no direct evidence that this is the case, but it is not without precedent. I know *I* can take educated guesses about the health of people. In fact I bet given quality photos of 10 people, I would score higher than you. Give me video, and I'd do even better. Let me see them in person, and I'd score even higher.

People with vivid visual imaginations are plenty common. I believe that many psychics genuinely believe what they are seeing/sensing, but every single time they are tested with proper controls, they fail.

You have an extraordinary claim that can be explained with known processes, yet you have offered unproven explanations without first addressing these known processes. That's not very scientific of you.

And while some discoveries may begin with just one person, far more failures and misguided beliefs start with one person not looking to known processes first.

 

[Pixel42]

I haven't seen the suggested protocol for the upcoming test yet, but can I strongly recommend that the standard procedure for eliminating subjective validation which was referred to earlier in the thread be incorporated? i.e.

1. VFF looks at each person and writes down what health issues she thinks they have
2. Each person is given a copy of everyone's health description and picks out the one they think fits them best

As well as eliminating subjective validation this also has the advantage that the probability of people picking the right description by chance can be calculated and a success critera (a result significantly better than chance) can be agreed before the test is run.

 

[Miss_Kitt]

UncaYimmy, if I start a claimant thread, will you flirt with me??

Vision -- I have to concur with several of the other posters that you are showing several behaviors typical of "psychics" in regards to their claims. For example, in the photo readings, you went through the listings that showed how you didn't find what was wrong, and found things that weren't wrong, with the person's health--and tried to find ways to claim success for aspects of your reading. This process of 'fishing' for successful nuggets out of a pan of muddy failure is how cold reading works.

Now, before you dismiss the foregoing with "I never claimed that I can work from photos" dodge, pay attention to what I **actually said**: That the manner of selecting "hits" and "close calls" was characteristic of psychics who use cold reading in some form. (Also of junk science believers.) That manner of selection is applicable for discussion whether the test on which you were using it was your strongest "ability" or your weakest. You demonstrated a willingness to re-interpret the negative response in a way to make yourself right, or partially right, rather than acknowledge a failure.

The same thing happened with your claim on the gastro-intestinal issue, where you said that you had reported a particular region of the small intestine near the sternum was "locking up" or cramping--and when Old Man pointed out that the small intestine isn't located there, you waffled into, "...but I can not rule out that there'd been that feeling of cramp in that exact region and that it would somehow also involve the small intestine and have been perceived in that connection." (Post #427 in this thread, your reply to Old Man) It is logically impossible to disprove an arbitrary assertion--so "I cannot rule out" should not be the place you start from, nor even a place you go to (except after you have examined the other likely options and evaluated their probability).

If you are truly interested in taking a scientific approach, you would have to say, "That was an error, not a correct perception." You would actively seek other answers than your perceptive "ability" to explain how you might have gotten this answer.

1) You would consider that you had been talking with this person, had been around them (it appears to have been your first meeting, perhaps at a social event? from your description) for "several hours" and have had time to notice some facial expression, postural change, gesture, or action -- like adjusting a jacket, rubbing the area, or taking an antacid or several small sips of water--that could have cued you to discomfort in that region.
2) You would have asked yourself if there are other reasons than an actual correct perception that the target agreed with your perception. Such as: being polite; adjusting for a near miss (from their perspective) due to selection bias; trying to get into your pants, etc.
3) You would say, "I will go to my website and edit my Observations to indicate that it has been pointed out to me that this was in fact incorrect."

That you are not doing these things shows a strong willingness to engage in selection bias on your observations. Are you able to accept, and willing to genuinely consider, that your observations are inaccurate?

Because I think you may well be sincere, I will suggest that the very last thing you need to do--if you are truly interested in determining what your ability may or may not be--is to spend any time watching a "professional psychic" do her thing. Why give your clearly high-functioning mind more ability to fool itself? Why watch someone who is a successful cold reader do her job?? Why "test" your abilities on people who--by their very willingness to go see a psychic--have demonstrated a willingness to "play along" with imprecise or open-ended readings? If you sincerely want to test and evaluate your perceptions, you need to be as controlled in your self-testing as possible.

I am interested enough in your pursuit to have stuck with the thread so far, and I hope to see you making better progress next time I check in.

Regards, Miss Kitt

 

[JWideman]

Back when you first posted, Anita, I made the psychic prediction that you would turn out to be indistinguishable from all the other claimants we've seen. Now, I didn't make this prediction public or even record it, so you'll just have to take it on my word. And not just that I made the prediction, but that it was only possible through paranormal means.

 

[Kuko 4000]

Anita, I just want to make sure, are you serious about not being a human? Or about you understanding yourself as something other than human? No disrespect or anything meant, just out of curiosity and to form a better idea of what you think

ETA: Not a single of my perceptions have involved a college student. College students are generally in good health compared to others (and if you'd think they have desctructive lifestyles, it takes a few years for it to materialize). And plenty of these perceptions involve women. I have often thrown in perceptions that I've known to be false, just to see if a person answers "no" to them and they did. I try different ways of checking my accuracy, so my personal, unverified experiences with the perceptions are not totally and entirely meaningless. I really have failed to dismiss the possibility of an extrasensory ability. And the only consequence of that is that I am now meeting with the local skeptics group to proceed.

I hope you understand how that looks for some of us who have seen claims similar to yours before?

One more question, when did you first start seeing more advanced medical issues in people? Did the descriptions and images change to more scientific, complex and detailed the more you studied?

 

[Pup]

You were being quite sincere about being a reincarnation from a white dwarf star near Arcturus?

Uh, yeah, I wondered about that too. I have a wacky sense of dry humor when I'm face-to-face with folks too, but for credibility's sake, Anita, could you explain that without the humor? Because that really doesn't sound any less strange than the abilities you've described on this thread, that you do expect us to take seriously.

I know it might be theoretically true in the sense that "we're all made of star-stuff," but you're not really serious about having an origin different from other humans, are you?

 

[desertgal]

desertgal:
It would still not explain every case of accurate perceptions, such as when I detect reproductive cysts and tell no one, and later the person is diagnosed and lets us know. No humor involved what so ever.

True, but since we only have your word that the experiences happened - and your credibility has taken a nosedive - then the explanation for every alleged case of accurate perception is anyone's guess.

Personally, I don't think you did sense reproductive cysts and told no one. That entire explanation smacks of "after the fact" diagnosing.

So, I vote for humor.

 

[desertgal]

Uh, yeah, I wondered about that too. I have a wacky sense of dry humor when I'm face-to-face with folks too, but for credibility's sake, Anita, could you explain that without the humor? Because that really doesn't sound any less strange than the abilities you've described on this thread, that you do expect us to take seriously.

I know it might be theoretically true in the sense that "we're all made of star-stuff," but you're not really serious about having an origin different from other humans, are you?

I predict that Anita isn't going to answer that question.

 

[Femke]

VFF,
Why don't you try Old Man's suggestion of going to the mall, and just asking people to confirm their appendectomy?

I would suggest:
- You go to the mall with a clipboard, and a lined sheet of paper with three columns on the right with Yes, No, Would not say.
- When you see someone with an appendectomy, you write down: Elderly gentleman with red jacket, appendectomy.
- You approach the gentleman, and say something like: For a science project at school/college I would like to ask you if you have had an appendectomy, sir.
- You tick the appropriate column.

Appendectomies are relatively common, I think rather innocent (I would not dare walk up to a man and bluntly ask about their vasectomy), and they are very easily confirmed.
Things like pain in neck vertebrae or cramped up intestines are too vague, I would say.

Would this be doable?

 

[Locknar]

In my possible defense it takes days and weeks before certain changes in diet and nutrition reflect on tissue. So it seems from what you wrote that the girl hadn't been receiving nutrition, including fat I presume until recently? I'd be reading current tissue structure, not recent eating habits (unless I detect contents of stomach and intestines...).

In your possible defense for getting everything wrong? To funny. You claim to be subjective, and yet in the face of 100% defeat won't admit it; yeah...very subjective I'd say.

We conclude from my picture test with you that I am unable to detect health problems from pictures posted over the internet. Thank you for clarifying this, even though the results were as I had expected.

And yet you claimed you could do just this, detect health problems from pictures. That aside, if the results were what you expected - why did you agree/proceed?

Then we have this:

I have written to Dr. Carlson who is an active member of this skeptics group and that was two days ago but I hope to see him at the meeting. (He is my hero, did you guys know he is a Quantum Physicist? In my world that's like a famous celebrity!)

I'm shocked it took this long for you to being "quantum physics" into this discussion.

Your "powers" are utter non-sense...something you'll never admit to...and anyone that tells you different is just being nice/playing along.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling :

In my possible defense it takes days and weeks before certain changes in diet and nutrition reflect on tissue. So it seems from what you wrote that the girl hadn't been receiving nutrition, including fat I presume until recently? I'd be reading current tissue structure, not recent eating habits (unless I detect contents of stomach and intestines...).

What would be your possible defense for missing a heart transplant ?

Oh, I keep forgetting, you really can't get valid readings from photos - except when you make a good guess - then you claim you really can get a good reading....

 

[skeen]

Oh for goodness sake! You're the reincarnation of a star now? And other than vibrations, we're now bringing quantum physics along with us? You people are all the same!

VFF, you are delusional at best. How Randi has been able to cope with this mind bendingly utter nonsense all these years is beyond me; I think it is he who has the supernatural ability!

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Anyway, the photo was a couple of months after the transplant, during which time she had put on a lot of weight (she was very thin before the operation). Her weight (and presumably amount of fat) was pretty normal for a baby her age by the time that photo was taken.

 

[skeen]

I also concur with Old Man's idea. That's just one of a trillion things you could to do instantly verify your supposed ability. I mean, literally, you could be making worldwide headlines tomorrow morning if you started right now.

I'm not even sure that much of a protocol would be necessary. Here's one right now:

Go to a hospital reception area. When you "see" peoples ailments, write them down, then ask the patient if they have said ailment, and tick it off if it's correct.

One important point: don't guess. Just "see". You do claim you can see the conditions, so if you can see them you can see them you can see them. I guarantee you'll be in newspapers the world over by tomorrow morning (as well as flipping centuries of science on its head).

Don't post one of your long replies, lacking in any content whatsoever. You could be sipping champagne at The Ritz tonight. You'll be a billionaire in time. You'll be the focus of the entire world by morning.

Cut the crap. There's nothing more important in the entire world you could be doing. Don't you realize, that you are the most important, and incredible person the world has ever encountered (aside from religious figures should you believe in them).

I'm not exaggerating. It's a point people don't bring up nearly enough. You, VFF, are the future. You're it. How could you possibly be doing anything right now, at this moment, other than merely telling people what you see?

We need you. Medical science needs you. What you can do is a breakthrough; it could save possibly hundreds of millions of people - and in time, billions. Yet, it doesn't quite feel that way does it? I wonder why.

 

[desertgal]

desertgal:

We don't know whether it is self deception yet. From my experiences I can not conclude self deception yet.

And my experience of you leads me to the conclusion that it is likely some level of self deception. Or attention seeking. Or both.

In your time on this forum, you have claimed to be able to medically diagnose people by sight-in person, through pictures, and on television; to talk with and understand the thoughts and emotions of all animals; to encounter ghosts practically every time you walk out your front door; to commune with ghosts both human and dinosaur; to telepathically communicate with a mythical creature; and to be the reincarnation of a white dwarf star. While this thread may only be about your alleged ability to medically diagnose, all those claims should be taken into consideration concerning your credibility-and I gotta tell you, it ain't lookin' good.