Merged Lloyd England: Eye of the Storm

[Turbofan]

So, Turbo, how did the NWO plant a large light pole in a taxi in broad daylight on a busy street without anybody noticing?

Not likely as there are no pictures (proof) of the pole even entering the
cab. It was all a story for you to swallow.

Why don't you do something useful and present some analysis, and answer
my questions instead of replying with another quesiton?

 

[dtugg]

Not likely as there are no pictures (proof) of the pole even entering the
cab. It was all a story for you to swallow.

Why don't you do something useful and present some analysis, and answer
my questions instead of replying with another quesiton?

So now he was also lying about saying it was in the taxi? How did the taxi get damaged? Was he driving around with it like that? How did the light pole get on the street without anybody noticing? Were there NWO agents sitting on the side of the road and they just threw it there hoping nobody would notice?

I am not not going to do any analysis for your benefit. You wouldn't listen anyway. You are obviously impervious to anything that contradicts your ridiculous fantasy which is one of the stupidest ideas in the history of the world. Even given the one in a billion chance that 9/11 was a inside job, they still wouldn't have done the insane flyover thing on the one in a billion chance that nobody that was there would notice. They would have just flown a plane into the damn building like they did at the WTC. Or perhaps you're a daranged WTC no-planers also?

 

[Turbofan]

So now he was also lying about saying it was in the taxi?

Yes

How did the taxi get damaged?

Hammer, government insiders.

Was he driving around with it like that?

Probably not.

How did the light pole get on the street without anybody noticing?

Who said nobody noticed? It was staged. Witnesses who saw the staging
could tell you how? By going through the FBI, or MSM?

I am not not going to do any analysis for your benefit.

>> Figured that much.


Answer these:

How wide is the highway at pole #1?

How long is Lloyd's car?

Where did it come to rest in relation to pole #1?

How fast was he driving?

How much distance would he need to stop the car when moving 40 MPH?

According to his story, the pole entered the car and then he skidded to a
stop.

What direction was the car facing when this happened?

What direciton did the pole fall?

How did the pole end up in the back seat without hitting the hood and
roof?

Here's a quick and dirty simulation. road, car and pole length to scale.

Pole rotation, speed, trajectory not scaled.

Pole bend, break-away force, "wing impact" not factored yet.

This animation will be redone with full scale images, force vectors, etc.
as well as using the official story to show the impossibility of the pole
entering the cab.

References will be provided.

http://www.procision-auto.com/911/p4t_lloyd_animation.swf

Still waiting for a logical explanation of how the pole suspended itself and
flew horiztonally.

 

[dtugg]

I see, people that saw all this staged couldn't get their stories out but your moron heroes can create a video "proving" the greatest hoax of all time.

 

[The Big Dog]

Wow, Turbofan, I am astonished that you had the beans to come back to this thread.

LONG long long before you posted your question, I asked you a question, the same one I asked CIT, the other mutts at PFFT and every one of CIT's fan boys: give us the flight path calculations that show an airliner could actually fly the CIT NOC.

At least one poster in this thread has offered to crunch the numbers on your Lloyde light pole question, provided that you and the other CIT fans stop dodging my question and answer it first. Cripes there are on line calculators that will assist you with the math.

So do it, or stfu.

Still waiting for a logical explanation of how an airliner flew CIT's flight path

 

[Turbofan]

I see you missed my questions again.

How wide is the highway at pole #1?

How long is Lloyd's car?

Where did it come to rest in relation to pole #1?

How fast was he driving?

How much distance would he need to stop the car when moving 40 MPH?

According to his story, the pole entered the car and then he skidded to a
stop.

What direction was the car facing when this happened?

What direciton did the pole fall?

How did the pole end up in the back seat without hitting the hood and
roof?

Here's a quick and dirty simulation. road, car and pole length to scale.

Pole rotation, speed, trajectory not scaled.

Pole bend, break-away force, "wing impact" not factored yet.

This animation will be redone with full scale images, force vectors, etc.
as well as using the official story to show the impossibility of the pole
entering the cab.

References will be provided.

http://www.procision-auto.com/911/p4t_lloyd_animation.swf

Still waiting for a logical explanation of how the pole suspended itself and
flew horiztonally.

16.5 you are as blind as a bat. I already confronted your quesitons long ago
and provided AGL data for the Annex and Pentagon. I also asked what you
would consider as a max g load for my calculations.

Please answer those questions.

P.S. This has already been done, but I'll do it again for the slow people.

FYI: 15 points of data agree with the NoC path including the lastest FAA
data.

back on topic. Answer the pole questions.

 

[beachnut]

I see you missed my questions again.

How wide is the highway at pole #1?

How long is Lloyd's car?

Where did it come to rest in relation to pole #1?

How fast was he driving?

How much distance would he need to stop the car when moving 40 MPH?

According to his story, the pole entered the car and then he skidded to a
stop.

What direction was the car facing when this happened?

What direciton did the pole fall?

How did the pole end up in the back seat without hitting the hood and
roof?

Here's a quick and dirty simulation. road, car and pole length to scale.

Pole rotation, speed, trajectory not scaled.

Pole bend, break-away force, "wing impact" not factored yet.

This animation will be redone with full scale images, force vectors, etc.
as well as using the official story to show the impossibility of the pole
entering the cab.

References will be provided.

http://www.procision-auto.com/911/p4t_lloyd_animation.swf

Still waiting for a logical explanation of how the pole suspended itself and
flew horiztonally.

16.5 you are as blind as a bat. I already confronted your quesitons long ago
and provided AGL data for the Annex and Pentagon. I also asked what you
would consider as a max g load for my calculations.

Please answer those questions.

P.S. This has already been done, but I'll do it again for the slow people.

FYI: 15 points of data agree with the NoC path including the lastest FAA
data.

back on topic. Answer the pole questions.

You are taking an actual event that happen, and saying it can't happen. Why are you apologizing for the terrorist and joining CIT in a personal attack on Lloyd?


There is no FAA data supporting your fantasy. You are making up more lies. You do have many paths impossible to fly due to physics. You got 34 Gs, you don't seem to care about reality or what happen.

You owe a few people a million dollars.


Your efforts on Lloyd have proven a pole did hit is cab and do significant damage. Please continue to show how poor 9/11 truth is at presenting lies like the ones you support by posting more often.

 

[The Big Dog]

Uhh, turbo? Yeah, you did not answer my question, Aldo and CIT have made very clear that the plane descended and then pulled up and over the impact site. So you are going to have to answer our question.

By the way, why are you asking me for the Max g-load? It is CIT's flight path, you tell me the g-loads the plane is pulling to fly that path.

Now get busy, and when you come back with an answer, your light pole question will be answered.

 

[Turbofan]

Uhh, turbo? Yeah, you did not answer my question, Aldo and CIT have made very clear that the plane descended and then pulled up and over the impact site. So you are going to have to answer our question.

By the way, why are you asking me for the Max g-load? It is CIT's flight path, you tell me the g-loads the plane is pulling to fly that path.

Now get busy, and when you come back with an answer, your light pole question will be answered.

Uhhh 16.5 ,

The Annex elevation is 135 feet ASL. The Pentagon is 33 ASL.

The Pentagon roof height is 77 feet from ground level.

The Annex roof line could be a few inches off the ground and still be high
enough for the aircraft to fly over without any manic 'pull-up'.

So you tell me what the g load maximum needs to be and I'll provide
the data.

I'm already showing that it's possible just based on elevation.

Does anyone know the roof height of the Annex? 50 ft?

 

[BCR]

CL Post Post

CL has covered this subject well I think, but I do wish someone with some concept of forensics had gone with Mr. England to check out his cab. Perhaps on my next trip to Arlington I will see if one of of the ACP forensics guys will go with me to see the cab. The whole issue could have been resolved if they had taken samples of the seat covering where the pole lodged between the seat and the back. I'm sure even now there would be residual evidence of the pole, maybe even a metal shaving or two under the cushion which could be compared with a mass spectrometer to some of those poles CIT recorded behind VDOT.

I like CL's hypothesis and it is clearly much more reasonable than the one CIT proposes. Wait, I have not heard the hypothesis yet. Exactly how did the cab window get blown inward? What pushed the passenger seat back? What accounts for the dent in the dashboard consistent with a pole? What lodged in the back seat? How was all of this done in full view of hundreds of people on a busy highway? Did he drive the car to the scene with the damage already done? Why did no one notice a cab driving down the road with its windshield smashed out? Why did CIT misrepresent photographs of the scene claiming that there was no pole when Ingersoll took his first picture (it was behind the bush silly)? And finally, how does the tooth fairy fit into all of this?

 

[Turbofan]

Why did CIT misrepresent photographs of the scene claiming that there was no pole when Ingersoll took his first picture (it was behind the bush silly)? And finally, how does the tooth fairy fit into all of this?

Would you be interested in replying to my questions above?

I would like to read the answer to these questions. For those who haven't seen it yet here is a link to 911files' north side flyover theory that was used as the basis for what was recently published in Gaffney's new book:

http://911files.info/second_plane.pdf

Thanks.

 

[The Big Dog]

Uhhh 16.5 ,

The Annex elevation is 135 feet ASL. The Pentagon is 33 ASL.

The Pentagon roof height is 77 feet from ground level.

The Annex roof line could be a few inches off the ground and still be high
enough for the aircraft to fly over without any manic 'pull-up'.

So you tell me what the g load maximum needs to be and I'll provide
the data.

I'm already showing that it's possible just based on elevation.

Does anyone know the roof height of the Annex? 50 ft?

My previous post got eated, so nutshell:

CIT's path depends on descent and pull up, you need to calculate THEIR path;

it is not about elevation;

you need calculate the g forces that are required to fly the CIT NOC path. Hint, they are exteremly large.

spoiler: hey Turbo, no airliner and certainly not the plane that those "13 witnesses" saw could fly the CIT NOC path. Your CIT pals are utter morons.

 

[Turbofan]

My previous post got eated, so nutshell:

CIT's path depends on descent and pull up, you need to calculate THEIR path;

it is not about elevation;

you need calculate the g forces that are required to fly the CIT NOC path. Hint, they are exteremly large.

spoiler: hey Turbo, no airliner and certainly not the plane that those "13 witnesses" saw could fly the CIT NOC path. Your CIT pals are utter morons.

What do you mean it's not about elevation? How am I supposed to show
g forces if you don't consider the terrain and building heights?

What is so difficult about this flight path anyway? What "extremely large"
g's are you thinking here?

 

[dtugg]

If there isn't anything hard about the flight path, why don't you just do the math and show everybody?

 

[twinstead]

The math will be included in their formal paper that is soon to be submitted, I can only assume.

 

[Bobert]

Do I have TF"s delusions correct?
He accused a body of people as being involved in MASS MURDER...WITHOUT A SHRED OF FRIGGIN EVIDENCE!
YET he wants you all to provide him evidence that it was possible for the light pole to enter Llyode's taxi?
They say that insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over yet expecting different results.

 

[The Big Dog]

What do you mean it's not about elevation? How am I supposed to show
g forces if you don't consider the terrain and building heights?

What is so difficult about this flight path anyway? What "extremely large"
g's are you thinking here?

I told you it was a nutshell! elevation: your earlier post seemed to be suffering under the misconception that CIT is claiming that the plane simply overflew the annex and the pentagon. That is NOT what they are claiming. The are claiming its was in some sort of banking descent and pulled up and over the Pentagon. Again, that is what they say. I've asked them to show me that it could be done.

What am I thinking about? I dunno, why don't you eyeball CIT's path in post 1 in this thread here and give me a ballpark on bank angle, g forces, etc:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/876461/1/

Problem is of course is that even that path is misleading, because it does not show the bank from the annex to North of the Citgo, nor the descent and pull up.

 

[BCR]

I am going to hate myself in the morning for even attempting to answer Turbofan's question (?), but here goes. Unlike some folks, I examine and attempt to factor ALL evidence without preconception. Yes, I wrote an appendix for Mark's book and it is self-explanatory. It asks the question (doesn't propose anything) regarding a yet-to-be fully explained light phenomenon observed on the Citgo video and anomalous eyewitness accounts.

At the time of the writing of Gaffney’s book, few records were available and after going to press, the photograph on the cover of his book which indicated a plane over the White House, was reassessed by US. You will find an update on Gaffney’s website to that affect. I know this is difficult to understand by the folks at CIT and P4T, but the scientific method is to collect data, make assessments with that data, ask questions, get more data, revise those assessments, ask questions, get more data, make better assessments, ask questions, get more data. Questions open a path of inquiry based on the data without dismissing it. The appendix you are referring to is an assessment used to ask questions based on available data. It does not stop there. To date, I still don’t have a clue what the secondary evidence is pointing to, and all I have are questions in that regard. Here it is over two years and I still am missing 1.5 minutes of radar data, so I still have more data to collect. I still don’t have the NTSB waveform output of the FDR which would be a record of the voltage transitions to resolve why the FDR ended prematurely, or indicate it was trimmed for some reason. The only thing people have offered in this thread is speculation, and that just don’t buy much at the grocery store.

I am not going to tit-for-tat with you Turbo, or the CIT folks either, because in the past it has proven to be a complete waste of time and unproductive. But that now that I have (in part anyways) responded to your question, please tell us how the tooth fairy staged Mr. England’s cab damage and provide the math behind these fantasy flight paths. I learned yesterday that JREF supports latex, so you can post your math equations right here with little effort. Show me yours and I’ll show you mine

 

[Turbofan]

If there isn't anything hard about the flight path, why don't you just do the math and show everybody?

Are you guys really that clueless that you need math to figure out the
obvious?

The Annex is on a hill. The elevation is

2620 feet from the East edge of the Annex to the Pentagon.

Elevation at this point is 120 feet ASL.
Roof height at least 10 feet (could be a few stories).
Total above sea level: 130 feet minimum

Pentagon elevation 33 feet ASL
Roof height 77 feet from ground.
Total above sea level: 110 feet

Are these values good enough for you before I waste my time with slope,
g loads, etc.?

 

[BCR]

Oh boy, I'm getting excited...Turbo is going to do some math. Start a new thread for your math Turbo, that way we can have some good serious fun. Please, please, I want to play.