Yay for conspiracy theories!
Labeling something a conspiracy theory is not adequate to dismiss that theory. You've actually got to show the arguments made by those proposing the theory are invalid. I've provided specific facts (and could add many more to those) which indicate possible criminality on the part of Hillary and those close to Hillary. A proper approach to discrediting the allegations would be for you to show those facts aren't true. Anything less is simply spin.
Course, the slight hitch there is that for the past eight years, the FBI and DoJ haven't been controlled by Bill Clinton.
What makes you think Bush would order his DOJ and FBI to investigate these matters given that he told folks during his first campaign that he was going to "move on" with regards to allegations against the Clinton administration? In fact, if Bush wouldn't even prosecute in the Riady Non-Refund ... where Riady stood up in a California Courtroom and told a judge, under penalty of losing his plea agreement if he lied, that the Clintons and DNC had NOT returned millions in illegal contributions as they'd publically claimed (and the prosecuting attorney told the judge that was true to the best of his knowledge) ... why would you believe Bush would have gone after Hillary for anything? One of my biggest complaints about the Bush adminstration (the one that got me tossed off Free Republic) is that he didn't pursue many clear cases of criminality in the Clinton administration.
Bush had lots of understandable (even if I didn't agree with them) reasons for "moving on" ... not the least being the fear that if he went after the much beloved Clintons, he could forget about getting any of *his* agenda through Congress for the next several years. That was the reason many at Free Republic defended his moving on. He could also be certain the media would crucify him and Republicans in the next elections. Plus, he might set a precedent wherein the next administration would go after him for anything he might do that was the least bit shady. And finally, he may also have had other reasons ... several thousand of them .... the contents of those raw FBI data files on mostly republicans that Hillary's people were illegally entering into DNC and White House databases during Filegate. Remember that Special Prosecutor Ray admitted in a TV interview several years after Filegate that the files were STILL in White House hands, contrary to the public statement made by Ken Starr years earlier that they'd been returned to the FBI. Remember that George Stephanopoulus warned that if they went after Clinton there would be "scorched earth"? All of this is a matter of public record.
So why don't you just deal with the specifics I mentioned, instead of trying to lead this thread off on a derail?
Quote:
Hillary was directly implicated in a coverup involving the possible murder of Vince Foster.
Your evidence for this?
I'm surprised you even have to ask after all the years this was discussed by folks like me presenting facts like those below.
But in any case, let's start with the fact that Vince Foster, in addition to being deputy White House counsel, was the personal attorney to Bill and Hillary Clinton. In that position, he might know a lot about the illegal activities of the Clintons over the years. Wouldn't you agree? And Foster's connection to the Clinton's was mostly through Hillary. Vince and Hillary had been partners in the Rose Law Firm ... a scandal that was still being investigated at the time that Foster died.
Isn't it amazing that Vince Foster could leave the White House without leaving a video record or log entry showing that he left the White House? Isn't it amazing that Park Police would search his body at Fort Marcy Park and not find the keys to his car. They would only show up ... in the same pocket police searched earlier ... after Craig Livingstone visited the morgue to supposedly identify a body that had already been identified earlier that evening ... the same Livingstone that was involved in Filegate ... the same Livingstone that Hillary denied knowing but who multiple people, including Livingstone himself, said was hired by Hillary. And to add one more mystery to the mix, when emergency workers first examined Foster's car in the Fort Marcy Park parking lot, they found the car doors locked. Yet when police checked it, less than an hour later, the doors were unlocked. Hmmmmmm ...
But maybe that connection to Hillary is too tenuous.
Let's add the fact that
Hillary's Chief of Staff, Margaret Williams, was observed by the Secret Service removing thick folders full of material from Foster's office just a few hours after his death ... before Park Police sealed the office. In fact, sealing of the office was apparently delayed by Hillary and Nussbaum so that this search could take place. Don't you find the timing of that a little curious? Don't you find the need to do it a little curious? What were she searching for, Cleon?
You realize, of course, that Williams had no official duties in that office. So what was she doing there? Do you think she went into that office without orders from Hillary? She was Hillary's Chief of Staff with an office right next to Hillary's. She was at Hillary's beck and call 24/7. Do you know that a Congressional committee which conducted 69 depositions and held 17 days of hearings on Foster's death (
http://nick.assumption.edu/WebVAX/Foster/Mack6Mar96.html ) found that Hillary called Maggie Williams at 10:13 pm the night Foster died and that "right after talking with Mrs. Clinton, Ms. Williams proceeded to the White House to Mr. Foster's Office"? The committee also discovered that after searching Foster's office, Williams called Hillary back and they talked for 11 minutes. Yet when Fiske investigated the Foster death, guess who he didn't depose. Williams. Hmmmmm ...
Cleon, don't you find it suspicious that Williams said in testimony that "I took nothing from Vince's office. I didn't go into Foster's office with anything in mind concerning any documents that might be in his office. I did not look at, inspect, or remove any documents." whent Henry P. O'Neill, a Secret Service agent who was on duty that night, testified "I saw Maggie Williams walk out of the suite and turn to the right in the direction that I was standing. She was carrying, what I would describe, in her arms and hands, as folders."? Who should we believe? Maggie Williams or a Secret Service agent? And why did Hillary clearly send Williams to Foster's office? Can you answer that question or not?
Do you know that Williams later admitted to Whitewater investigators that Hillary ordered her to take sensitive documents from Foster's office two days after his death and store them in her bedroom closet for safekeeping? But given the above, isn't it more likely she actually picked them up the night of Foster's death? What would be so urgent as to require this? Well, I'm sure you heard that a document connected to Whitewater, with Hillary's fingerprints on it, magically appeared in the White House residence a few days after the statute of limitation on the Whitewater matter expired? So could Williams have been covering for Hillary that night? Could what was in that office or something else Foster was working on for the Clintons (like their much delayed Trust) have been a motive for murder?
By the way, guess what Maggie Williams was doing the last 9 months or so? Working on Hillary's campaign. In fact, Maggie Williams was Hillary's campaign manager for much of that time. Here's the way the NY Daily News described her back in February when her position in the campaign was announced: "Maggie Williams is renowned as the ultimate Hillary loyalist, fierce and unwavering in her devotion for nearly 25 years." Hmmmmm....
Witnesses also saw Patsy Thomasson, director of the White House's Office of Administration, in Foster's office during the same timeframe. Again, she had no duties in that office. She sat at Foster's desk, went through his files, reportedly looking for the combination to Foster's safe. Coincidently, two envelopes reported to be in the safe by Foster's secretary, Deborah Gorham, addressed to Janet Reno and to William Kennedy III, disappeared. When asked the next day about the safe opening, Mack McLarty, White House Chief of Staff, told reporters that Foster's office did not have a safe. But that claim was proven false in the final IOC report. So who sent Patty to Foster's office? Hillary?
After all, she was a very close friend of the Clintons and a former associate of drug dealer Dan Lasater, who also had a long history with the Clintons (including Roger). The records show that she covered for Hillary on other occasions. For example, she seems to have lied to Congress about the composition of Hillary's Health Care Task Force and it's budget. She also was implicated in TravelGate, which you should know Hillary helped instigate. Do you know the number of times that Patsy testified in court or before Congress and said she didn't remember, didn't know or something to that effect? From what I read ... 420 times ... almost a record where Clinton toadies were concerned.
Bernard Nussbaum also went into Foster's office before the Park Police arrived. He was Foster's superior so perhaps he had a reason. But what was that reason? To obstruct justice? When Park Police arrived, he prevented them from entering the office, citing "national security". Yet he allowed Patsy Thomasson into the office even though she had NO security clearance. And note that neither Williams or Thomasson worked under Nussbaum so that wasn't the reason they were there either.
Curiously enough, in the testimony that Williams, Thomasson and Nussbaum later gave, they differed on key points ... one being who got there first, who did what and who left last. But they were consistent about one thing. All denied taking anything from the office that night ... despite the fact one was observed doing so and there were documents reportedly missing.
Now tell us, Cleon, are we expected to believe these three people went into Foster's office late at night on their own accord and just looked around or is it more likely that someone higher up ordered them to do this because there was something in the office they wanted removed? Maybe Bill was involved, but we know Hillary was. The phone calls prove it. In fact, there were numerous phone calls not only logged between Hillary and Williams but between Hillary and Nussbaum in hours after Foster's death.
Even more curious, at 11:19 pm Hillary called someone named Susan Thomases in New York. Three minutes after Williams spoke to Hillary following her search of Foster's office, she too called Thomases and spoke with her for 20 minutes. About what? When first confronted by the Congressional committtee, Williams denied having called Thomases at all. When the committee asked for her phone records to prove her claim, she and her lawyer stated they were not available. The committee obtained them a week later, and they proved that Williams lied.
And this wasn't the only time that White House staff denied talking to Thomases that night and in the following days. Phone records proved that several people lied about that. So who is Susan Thomases? Apparently, a New York lawyer and long time friend and advisor to Hillary, described as the "go-to" guy on the Clinton team. Something must have really spooked Hillary and Williams to call on her so late at night. And then to deny talking to her. But was she ever deposed by Fiske? No. But perhaps you could tell us her interest in Foster's death?
How about the fact that Craig Livingstone (who was already a key figure in what happened after Foster was discovered dead) was seen the next morning coming off an elevator after visiting the wing and floor where Foster's office was located carrying a briefcase and accompanied by an unidentified man carrying a box of loose leaf binders. He later denied removing anything from Foster's office but admitted to carrying a box of documents.
Now when Livingstone was questioned by Fiske's people, he reportedly gave statements that contradicted the account being given by the White House. A law enforcement source at the interrogation was quoted saying "it was clear to everyone in the room, including (Livingstone's) attorney, that he was not telling the truth" yet when Livingstone asked to stop the questioning, Fiske's people let him leave. Then during a second interview, he showed up with new legal representation and a story more in line with White House claims about what happened. At the second meeting, Livingstone's new attorney told investigators that Livingstone had been confused about the times, but had written a memo-to-file detailing the chronology of his activities ... and then told them the memo had disappeared. When investigators asked for a set of all Livingstone's memos to file, they were told he hadn't written any before or since. But despite all that, Fiske accepted Livingstone's memo story at face value. You see, Fiske was part of the coverup, too.
Is there any other reason to think Foster didn't just commit suicide and that ties back to Hillary? Well, the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee concluded that Hillary was one of the first people to see the alleged suicide note. They said it was her instructions that Bill Clinton NOT be informed of its existence ... and that the note NOT be turned over to law enforcement. And it wasn't, until about 28 hours later. These facts are documented in the OIC report. Now a number of Clinton staffers swore under oath that the first lady had no role in the handling of Foster's note but a memo was discovered, written by White House lawyer Miriam Nemetz, quoting then-White House chief of staff Mack McLarty as saying Mrs. Clinton "was very upset and believed the matter required further thought and the president should not yet be told". Why would she do that, Cleon?
And what about that suicide note itself? You remember the story? Bernard Nussbaum opened and upended Foster's briefcase in front of Park Police, showing it to be empty. Three days later, Stephen Neuwirth, Associate Counsel to the President, announced that a suicide note was discovered in that briefcase. I'm sure you're thinking "that's proof" it was suicide.
The government refused to release photocopies of the reconstructed note and fought efforts by The Wall Street Journal to obtain a copy under the Freedom of Information Act. Eventually a copy was leaked to the WSJ, however. Then, three noted and independent handwriting experts looked at the published note. All were board certified and all three declared the note an obvious forgery. Reed Irvine (of AIM) met with Sergeant Larry Lockhart, the U.S. Capitol Police handwriting expert who the government said concluded that the note was written by Foster. He showed Lockhart a sheet of paper with 12 words that were found in both the Foster letter that had been used to authenticate the note and the note itself. They had been copied and enlarged. Lockhart was told that these words came from two documents, neither of which was identified. He was asked if, in his professional opinion, all 12 words had been written by the same person. Lockhart conclude "very possibly" and "probably" they were NOT by the same person. He pointed out indications of conscious efforts to imitate the handwriting. When he was told he was reversing the opinion he gave the Park Police, he acknowledged that he had not used any enlargements for his 1993 analysis.
Furthermore, the note was undated and unsigned. It said nothing whatever about suicide or farewells to family and friends. The beginning and the end of the note are written in first person but the middle part is written in third person (and, curiously, exonerates the Clintons of all sorts of allegations). Finally, note that the FBI failed to find Foster's fingerprints on the note. And one more thing. The note was torn into pieces ... which the three experts said is a red flag for forgeries.
And Hillary was one of the first to see the note and then ordered it's existence kept secret from even her husband for 28 hours. And you don't find that the least bit suspicious, Cleon?
And of course there are many other facts that suggest Foster did not commit suicide. There are so many I would have difficulty listing them all. They include the FBI tampering with evidence and witness intimidation by the FBI. They include the fact that Starr's chief investigator, Miquel Rodriquez, resigned saying there was a coverup. And my point is that if one concludes Foster didn't commit suicide, then it would make sense to look at those around him who might have had the most to gain from Foster dying. And Hillary and Bill would be on that list.
