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How 9/11 was done

8den said:
Kudos to all the responds and not a single stoner joke.

So all you need to proof your theory true is to dreg a chunk of the Elbe, and the greatest conspiracy is proven true?

Gosh thats awesome.
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That Elbe thing is to make the story 'fluent'. I do not know where Atta got killed. I only know that Atta was alive in Hamburg and that he disappeared. I conclude that he most likely got killed, either in Germany or America. I deduce that on the basis of:
- Atta not being able to respond in German to flight school instructor Rudi Deckers; the real Atta is fluent in German.
- the behaviour of Atta in the US being unlike a devout muslim who is about te sacrifice his life for Islam: drinking, boorish behaviour, visiting strip joints.

As an aside Atta's father claims that his son was killed by the Mossad.
 
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9/11-investigator said:
Why blame the muslims.

I do not blame Israel or the Jews. I say that everything points to a small conspiracy of a small number of Israelis and double passport Americans.
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Really?
9/11-investigator said:
This in summary is the plot to do list:

- buying WTC (and insure against terrorist acts for nice profit)
- killing Atta and friends in Hamburg and taking passports and dumping bodies
- laying trail at flight schools
- buying large amounts of thermite and detonators and prepare at safe location
- get hold of passenger list and collect sound samples using Amdocs
- largest chunk: drive into WTC complex with vans and mount prepared charges in a weekend
- make 10-20 or so phone calls to relatives using samples for voice morphing + caller-ID spoofing
- push the buttons in WTC-7 after impact of planes

9/11, that's it.
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A small group you say? How small? Care to give a figure on the amount of people that would have to be involved in the planning, executing and covering up mass murder as laid out in your summarisation?

10? 20? 100? 200? Any idea?
 
9/11-investigator said:
ly in Bagdad? Does it not have 8 or so military bases in Iraq



Not at all! There was hardly any resistence against the invasion; maybe some libertarians uttered a protest, but that was the minority.
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Utterly incorrect the Feb 15th world day of protest was as well attended in many American cities as European ones. New York's protest was as comparable in size as London's with estimates of up to a Million people marching in protest. San Francisco's march was on the 16th and saw nearly a quarter of million people protesting.

Look mate, you've uttered, whats the word, glaring, yes glaring factual errors in your "investigation" perhaps now you'll see what you've got wrong, and go back and revise your theories, enlightened by better research than Bollyn.
 
stateofgrace said:
Really?



A small group you say? How small? Care to give a figure on the amount of people that would have to be involved in the planning, executing and covering up mass murder as laid out in your summarisation?

10? 20? 100? 200? Any idea?
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gumboot said:
This is all well and good, but your problem here is you're spouting things that quite simply are not true. You clearly haven't made any attempt to independently verify Bollyn's claims otherwise you would know they are false. In contrast, you presumably have known since childhood that 2X2=4, thus when Hitler affirms this fact to you, it is something you are already aware of, and there is no need to verify Hitler's claim.

Let's focus on a simple basic point which you've claimed repeatedly.

Security at the airports. You seem to be claiming that Huntleigh USA held the security contract at Logan International Airport, Washington Dulles International Airport and Newark International Airport in September 11, 2001. However, as you mention going through check in, I'll have to assume you also mean they had the contract for security for United Airlines and American Airlines at these airports. What you seem to have missed is that Airlines provided their own security.

Now, this claim is rather startling, but sadly it isn't true. If you do a bit of digging, as I did, you'll soon discover that Huntleigh only had one contract of interest - baggage handling for United Airlines. They didn't have any relevant security contracts with any of the airports or either of the airlines. In fact, if you had bothered to pay attention to your own conspiracy theorist friends you'd know that a company called Securacom had the security contract for Washington Dulles International Airport that morning.

Of course, if you'd bothered to do any research you'd know this already, so clearly you haven't. That means you took Bollyn's word for it. So I'll ask again. Why are you so eager to believe whatever that man claims?
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gumboot said:
No they didn't, but let's see what else you have.




Silverstein didn't buy the WTC, and it was highly profitable, and at nearly full capacity. Silverstein tried to have it insured for a ridiculously low amount and was forced to increase it (though still well under replacement value).




You forgot to mention that the Israeli stand-ins looked exactly like them. In fact, they looked so much like them that when Al-Shehhi's Israeli double travelled to Morocco in early 2001 to visit his family, they were completely fooled, as were the Al Qaeda operators of a safe house in Spain.

Of course then there's Jarrah, who, unlike the other hijackers, did not break off relations at all, and during his training he repeatedly visited his family and his German-Turkish girlfriend. All of them were, of course, totally fooled by the amazing Mossad double.





It's a pity this complex-wide shut down never occurred. But hey, minor detail.




Why?




We've covered the whole airport security thing, but that last point is interesting. The flight manifest records who actually physically enters the aircraft. I must presume, therefore, that you're claiming American Airlines and United Airlines are in on this plot to destroy four of their aircraft and murder a large number of their own employees (not to mention cause devastating damage to the airline industry) for the sake of Israel's peace of mind.




Ah, those pesky phone calls. They really are a thorn in the Conspiracy Theorist's side aren't they? It's a shame someone forgot to disable the pilots' radios because Air Traffic Control heard one of the hijackings take place.





Ah yes, because every single passenger on these aircraft booked their flight so far in advance the ninjas could actually gather enough detailed personal information about them to fool their relatives. Do you have any idea how utterly pathetically stupid the above is?




This should be good.




Well they forgot to buy it, and they badly under insured it, so not off to a good start. 0/2




Except those pesky patsies somehow came back to life and visited their friends and loved ones repeatedly. Should have seen that one coming. 0/3




2000lb of thermite - $4.2 million
10,000m of detonating wire - $45,000
2,000 ignition charges - $23,000
Realising thermite can't be used for building demolition - priceless

0/4




Curse those last minute cancellations and bookings.

0/5




Oops, forgot about the PAPD and their bomb sniffer dogs. 0/6




You think in the planning stage someone would have suggested the phone calls were a bad idea. 0/7




The severe fire damage, structural damage, and FDNY professional assessment of the building's condition was of course sheer coincidence. 0/8



Worse conspiracy ever. Ever.




It is the stupidest thing a homo sapiens sapiens has ever suggested.
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Please respond to Gumboot's points--the substantial ones.
 
9/11-investigator said:
- Atta not being able to respond in German to flight school instructor Rudi Deckers; the real Atta is fluent in German.
- the behaviour of Atta in the US being unlike a devout muslim who is about te sacrifice his life for Islam: drinking, boorish behaviour, visiting strip joints.
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Except Dekker didn't say he wasn't able to respond, just that he didn't respond.

Oh, and if you're going to trust in Keller's story then you might want to bear in mind that she says he could speak German:

Keller also states that Atta always spoke German with Wolfgang, directly contradicting the testimony of Rudi Dekkers, who told a Congressional Committee that when he addressed him in German, Atta had merely looked at him strangely.
http://www.madcowprod.com/issue40.html
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Or are contradictions only important when they relate to the "official story"?
 
A small group you say? How small? Care to give a figure on the amount of people that would have to be involved in the planning, executing and covering up mass murder as laid out in your summarisation?

10? 20? 100? 200? Any idea?
Click to expand...

It is said in my blog; on the risk that the administrator is going to dump me for 'spamming' by quoting from my blog, since you ask for it politely I am giving you an answer anyway:

Who were the plotters?

In this interview of Alex Jones with Andreas von Bulow, the former German Defense Minister said that 9/11 had to be carried out by a very small group of people. Alex asked him 100? 40? He said less than that.

let's start counting:

Highest level:

Mastermind: Zakheim (remote control idea & link between israeli and US-politics)

Israeli government: Olmert & Netanjahu (commanding Mossad).

US government: Cheney; dominates US-government including Bush. Cheney's role is to convert the 9/11 event into making sure the US invades Iraq & Afghanistan.

Operative level:

- Silverstein: buying WTC & hiring Israeli security firm Kroll.
- Jules & Jeremy Kroll: security firm WTC, make sure Israeli demolition team has access to WTC and can work undisturbed.
- Giuliani: WTC7 command & control center; handles aftermath 'on the ground' in NY.

lower echelon:

- Goff & Yoran: link between access to production software on sensitive US institutions like NORAD; they enable Israeli software programmers to manipulates NORAD software and proably 'home run' remote control system.
- Atzmon: asked by Olmert to handle 9/11 at departure airports.
- Hauer: works for Kroll and 'does the media' on 9/11.

These are only 12 people, not counting Mossad agents, who do not need to know the big picture... just change software and plant demolitions charges , kill a few Arabs, take some flying courses and make some fake phone calls on 9/11.

That is, the plot consists of 12 core people plus 20-40 foot soldiers.


P.S. Not that I plan to go anywhere, but just in case the administrator is going to dump me for 'spamming' I say goodbye to the regular members and say thanks for your time and comments. I have saved them all locally and will give them closer attention later. Just in case.

BTW: this thread will certainly not go down the memory hole but will probably later be part of my blog in case this thread will vanish from this forum.
 
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9/11-investigator said:
It is said in my blog; on the risk that the administrator is going to dump me for 'spamming' by quoting from my blog, since you ask for it politely I am giving you an answer anyway:

<snip>

P.S. Not that I plan to go anywhere, but just in case the administrator is going to dump me for 'spamming' I say goodbye to the regular members and say thanks for your time and comments. I have saved them all locally and will give them closer attention later. Just in case.

BTW: this thread will certainly not go down the memory hole but will probably later be part of my blog in case this thread will vanish from this forum.
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[Posting as moderator]
9/11-investigator, let's get something straight here.
You have had one post moved to Forum Management so far, and a very minor warning about pimping your blog.
This thread is unlikely to vanish anywhere. We don't censor discussion here unless it becomes a flamepit, or a major breach of the Membership Agreement. If it does, usually only the posts concerned would be removed, not the entire thread.

As for reproducing this thread elsewhere, I'd advise that copyright of this forum belongs to the JREF, and so you shouldn't consider doing that.

I'm only answering you here to prevent further posting of the misunderstanding that you have about the moderation of this forum, and because you seem to think your last post was removed - it wasn't - it was moved to the correct section of the forum for discussing moderation issues; called Forum Management.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=19

I'd add that nobody should respond to this post in this thread. If anything I mention here warrants further discussion, please take it to the Forum Mgt section.
(If anyone responds to this post in situ, they will receive a rule 11 infraction, and the posts will be moved to FM).
[/Posting as moderator]
 
9/11-investigator said:
Refers to power down.

The link in my blog is dead. Try: google '9/11 wtc power cuts' --> more than 100.000 hits.

www investigate911 com/911facts.htm
(had to enter spaces).

FACT: In the weekends prior to 9/11, the Twin Towers were shut down, evacuated and the power cut completely off. Employees complained such has never happened in their twenty years of working in the Twin Towers. Employees witnessed numerous foreign-looking workers carrying heavy bags of equipment into the Twin Towers;

www willthomasonline net/willthomasonline/The_WTC.html

POWER DOWN
Scott Forbes is taking the day off. The senior database administrator has worked all weekend and into Monday morning to shepherd every Fiduciary Trust's computer system safely back online after the WTC's first “power-down” saw the New York Port Authority cut electricity to the South Tower from the 48th floor up. The reason given was to install a fiber optic upgrade to increase the Trade Center's computer bandwidth.

But why only to the upper floors? Forbes wonders. And why power down the upper floors when the announced upgrade involves fiber optic cables that conduct light, not electricity?

As one of the Trade Center's first occupants, Fiduciary Trust spent a great deal of time and money powering down their computer systems prior to the power cut, which began early Saturday, September 8th and continued until mid-afternoon the following day. Computer consultants and their own staffs are still at work this morning in the Fiduciary offices on the 90th and 94th through 97th floors in the South Tower.

For nearly 30-hours, the WTC's upper floor elevators and security systems have been rendered inoperative. Though power remained to the lower floors, Forbes has seen many unfamiliar faces roaming freely through the upper corridors. In an email to journalist John Kaminski, author of The Day America Died and America's Autopsy Report, Forbes wrote, “Without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors, and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower.”
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the dubiousness of forbe's story aside, even he only claims half of one tower was powered down, not the entire complex as you claim



How many ....? Do not know, I was not there; neither were you to disprove it.
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well why dont you start by finding out how many would be needed to bring down the towers, from there you can figure out the sizes needed to cut the collumns, how much time this would have taken to move into the complex and how long to set it up

answering these relatively simple questions would go a long way to proving the plausibility of your theory

Why this horizontal cut thing? I thought the idea was to cut under an angle to make the building 'walk'/implode?
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the cut still has to move horizontally through the steel, something no one has been able to do with thermite (and dont bother linking to the youtube video of the rebar being cut, a point-spray device that can cut 1in rebar would not work for a 3in thick box column)
 
9/11 investigator

Do you have anything besides far stretched speculation and politically based conjecture? You know, something legitimate that you didn't simply make up because you despite people from certain countries or administrations?
 
9/11-investigator said:
But no Russian equivalents for Silverstein, Atzmon, Kroll associates, Urban Moving Systems, Clean Break, PNAC I presume.
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(1) You said that the Russians had no motive. They have a very strong one, and much more clearly tied to this action than a vague hope by Israel that this would in some intangible way help the country -- how's that working out for them?

(2) You have not looked for "equivalents" for those entities; it is possible that there are, or that they are simply better at hiding their ties and planting false trails.

(3) Since the above entities have not been shown to have actually done anything by anything resembling evidence, there is no real need to show any "equivalent" entity on the russian side.

After all, if we have a country's intelligence service capable of infiltrating a number of terrorist cells and replacing key members with undetectable doubles and further using unprecedented voice-morphing technologies to fool close friends and family members, then surely generating a few ID badges implicating the above companies/persons would be child's play.


In fact, it gives me even *more* proof for Russian involvement. I have just decided that Russia eliminated Silverstein, et al and replaced them with doubles. In your face, debunkers!
 
9/11-investigator said:
It is said in my blog; on the risk that the administrator is going to dump me for 'spamming' by quoting from my blog, since you ask for it politely I am giving you an answer anyway:

Who were the plotters?

In this interview of Alex Jones with Andreas von Bulow, the former German Defense Minister said that 9/11 had to be carried out by a very small group of people. Alex asked him 100? 40? He said less than that.

let's start counting:

Highest level:

Mastermind: Zakheim (remote control idea & link between israeli and US-politics)

Israeli government: Olmert & Netanjahu (commanding Mossad).

US government: Cheney; dominates US-government including Bush. Cheney's role is to convert the 9/11 event into making sure the US invades Iraq & Afghanistan.

Operative level:

- Silverstein: buying WTC & hiring Israeli security firm Kroll.
- Jules & Jeremy Kroll: security firm WTC, make sure Israeli demolition team has access to WTC and can work undisturbed.
- Giuliani: WTC7 command & control center; handles aftermath 'on the ground' in NY.

lower echelon:

- Goff & Yoran: link between access to production software on sensitive US institutions like NORAD; they enable Israeli software programmers to manipulates NORAD software and proably 'home run' remote control system.
- Atzmon: asked by Olmert to handle 9/11 at departure airports.
- Hauer: works for Kroll and 'does the media' on 9/11.

These are only 12 people, not counting Mossad agents, who do not need to know the big picture... just change software and plant demolitions charges , kill a few Arabs, take some flying courses and make some fake phone calls on 9/11.

That is, the plot consists of 12 core people plus 20-40 foot soldiers.


P.S. Not that I plan to go anywhere, but just in case the administrator is going to dump me for 'spamming' I say goodbye to the regular members and say thanks for your time and comments. I have saved them all locally and will give them closer attention later. Just in case.

BTW: this thread will certainly not go down the memory hole but will probably later be part of my blog in case this thread will vanish from this forum.
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Oh I see, some 32 to 52 people’ that will work, thanks for clearing that up.

Just so I can be clear you are accusing…………..
Bush,Cheney,Mossad,Silverstein,NORAD,Zakheim,Hauer,Goff & Yoran and some foot soldiers of being involved in mass murder, right?

How about the FBI, the CIA, Interpol? Come on these guys must be in on it too, right? Oh NIST, you forgot them too.

Oh these guys that didn’t need to know the big picture? Do they still not know the big picture? Or are they just happy to be involved in mass murder? Oh wait I have a idea maybe some other guys that don’t need to know the big picture were hired to bump off the guys that didn’t need to know the big picture and then…….

Goodbye, you offer nothing, other that an over active imagination and need to be taken seriously. This you will not get from me.
 
9-11 investigator-
atta is alleged to have an israeli accent. prisonplanet.tv/articles/june2004/061804voiceofatta.htm

Excerpts of a transmission from the cockpit of American Airlines Flight 11 believed to have been made by hijacker Mohamed Atta. The tape recordings were played for the first time at the final public hearing of the federal panel reviewing the September 11th attacks. Some people have speculated that the accent is that of an Israeli.

as for a russian link to 911: (probably just a red herring) foreknowledge by putin!!
just type in putin + hussein and youll see the doc
Another explosive document which has already been widely publicized adds validity to the fact that Uday Hussein [Saddam’s younger son] needed to be quickly eliminated near the outset of a war with Iraq because he was aware of a letter which indicated prior knowledge of the 9-11 attacks.


Despite the fact that Delmart "Mike" Vreeland—the intelligence operative tasked to deliver the letter from Uday Hussein to Russian Federation President Vladimir Putin—has a controversial past at best, the inclusion of Uday in Cambone’s notes provides additional important evidence.
 
Jonnyclueless said:
9/11 investigator

Do you have anything besides far stretched speculation and politically based conjecture? You know, something legitimate that you didn't simply make up because you despite people from certain countries or administrations?
Click to expand...

This is a non-starter because I could direct the same argument towards you, that you despise certain 'islamo-fascists'. Let's not go into the psychology game and assuming 'agenda's'. This leads to nowhere.
 
this is damning israeli foreknoeledge (11 months before 911). this event takes place 10-15 miles away from the urban moving company. after i found out it was so close to the warehouse, i started to believe this story is probably more real than fake.
an ex idf soldier actually was the source of this article.

Prior knowledge of 9/11 attacks overheard in Hebrew
muckrakerreport.com/id324.html

What the observer of these happenings heard beneath him after the normal niceties were exchanged between the three men alarmed him. The man who arrived in the Town Car said, “The Americans will learn what it is to live with terrorists after the planes hit the twins in September.” One of the men that had been leaning against the retaining wall expressed concerns regarding whether the upcoming presidential election (November 2000) between Bush / Cheney and Gore / Lieberman could impact the plans. The man that arrived in the Town Car pacified the doubts by saying, “Don’t worry, we have people in high places and no matter who gets elected, they will take care of everything.”
In addition to overhearing in Hebrew, the statements, “The Americans will learn what it is to live with terrorists after the planes hit the twins in September”, and “Don’t worry, we have people in high places and no matter who gets elected, they will take care of everything”, the source also reports that he overheard one of the three men in the Gomel Chesed Cemetery say, “The Arabs are so stupid. They don’t even imagine that we are using them.” This comment should not be overlooked.
 
defaultdotxbe said:
wrong, you collect evidence first and build a narrative around what the evidence indicates

what you suggest is affirming the consequent, a logical fallacy
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This is a word game.

Proper sequence:

1). fact finding (what you probably call evidence)
2). looking for suspects, motives
3). form one or more narratives
4). direct research in order to test narrative(s)
5). find evidence for narrative
 
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