Tricky
Briefly immortal
Why the Persistent Disassociation?
- Thread starter Radrook
- Start date
-
- Tags
- barack obama racism
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
- Messages
- 26,475
Hey. Hey. Watch it buddy. Some of my best friends are extraterrestrials and Michael Jackson is no extraterrestrial.
JoeTheJuggler
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2006
- Messages
- 27,766
Check out yesterday's Doonesbury:
http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html?uc_full_date=20081105
it isn't particular to the usa. The same goes in most countries (including africa) for any mixed individual: Here in france and switzerland, i am referred as black, even though my mother is white and i'm relatively light-skinned (although racists who know me and my family personnally will go out of their way to tell me that they haven't got anything against me personnally since i'm light-skinned, my mom is white, and i've been living here all my life). Africans will either call me, derogatively, white whenever i will not indulge in europe/usa/jews bashing, or black when they want to enroll me in something (or borrow money).
The main reason why i'm sure there's no difference between various populations and skin colors is the absolutely similar distribution of stupidity ...
Last edited:
Praktik
Philosopher
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2007
- Messages
- 5,244
I think the poster in the OP must just be reacting to all the "first black President" brouhaha - but as one who has followed this race closely for years - I'd have to say I heard quite a bit about Kenya and Kansas with regards to Obama... in fact, almost all the bios and pieces and him I read did not simply go to town on his Kenyan ancestry, they always connected that Kenyan ancestry with his Kansas upbringing under a white grandma...
So ya, the OP is proceeding on a false premise...
So ya, the OP is proceeding on a false premise...
skeptical
Muse
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 957
Explanation: Because electing a person of Black/African American heritage to the US Presidency is the most significant US political event in many generations.
My apology is sincere and I truly regret having posted this question. However, I am not in the bad habit of proceeding on false premise. The reason you see it as false is because you are using strawman. In short, comparing two completely different situations and claiming they are morally identical.
Since people here want to make this out as if it were just some idea I invented though it's common knowlewdge that the one drop rule controversial if not offensive. Here are some links for your enlightenment.
excerpt
"One Drop of Blood", by Lawrence Wright
"But the one-drop rule is racist," Daniel says. ... He says of the one-drop rule, "It is so embedded in our perception and policy, ...
www.afn.org/~dks/race/wright.html
what is wrong with the one drop rule? as with many other things, Black ...
.. Tthe 'One-Drop' Rule (the false teaching that 'any amount' of Black ancestral lineage make a person "full Black") is nothing more than pure-racism. The racist ' ...
answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070704121228AA7ZMsA
Why does society "force" people of mixed races to choose one race or ...
The racist 'One-Drop Rule' was created during the antebellum, chattel-slavery ... any way embrace the concept of the 'One-Drop Rule' -- as, "Black blood" is *not ...
answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070510104001AABc2BA
More pages from answers.yahoo.com [/quote]
Last edited:
It's association.
Many mistake my hispanic wife as Greek. It's not because they are racist. It's because that is what many identify with her look and corresponding label. Obama has immersed himself in the black community, married a black wife, and self identifies himself as black. His white half has been completely covered throughout his campaign. If a white claimed he was all black just for having black in him, then we cross into racism. This narrows the OP to a small minority of racist whites comparable to blacks who would want a blacker president.
Not about all black.
Being half white= 44th time someone 50% white or more has been president
Being half black=1st time someone 1% black or more will be president.
A buzzkill is basically when someone brings down a good feeling by bringing up something that should be irrelevant. Kind of like the the first quoted paragraph of this post.
Why would they be hell-bent and act like that if they were not offended?
hell-bent, disassociating, shunting, indecent.
Was there another reason? You've stated what whites are doing. Why do you think they are doing it?
I think you think something is happening that is not.
ETA: Or not by enough people who matter.
Last edited:
Darth Rotor
Salted Sith Cynic
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2006
- Messages
- 38,527
Radrook, no need to apologize...not to me, anyway.
I've tried to dredge out the point on a few other threads.
Because i live in 'red' country, and also wanted Obama to win, I had to consider influencing my red-neck neighbor's votes; same like they tried with me.
To the minority of crackers that simply couldn't abide a black president, I became inclined to promote Obama's whiteness...as if it might effect 50% worth.
After all, there's Chevy rednecks, and Ford rednecks. They hate each other.
The new hybrid Ford-Chevy mobile has them baffled, which is friendlier than hate.
I've tried to dredge out the point on a few other threads.
Because i live in 'red' country, and also wanted Obama to win, I had to consider influencing my red-neck neighbor's votes; same like they tried with me.
To the minority of crackers that simply couldn't abide a black president, I became inclined to promote Obama's whiteness...as if it might effect 50% worth.
After all, there's Chevy rednecks, and Ford rednecks. They hate each other.
The new hybrid Ford-Chevy mobile has them baffled, which is friendlier than hate.
True, but that example isn't relevant to a policy of tagging anyone suspected of having one distant black ancestor as being automatically black regardless of the person's appearance.
Perhaps you aren't familiar with this practice? That's why I provided the links.
Again that is irrelevant to the one drop makes you totally black rule. If indeed Obama wanted to be seen as biracial most Americans would still see him as black because of that one-drop rule which they have been socialized into. You agree with the rule? OK. But please note that its historical origin is based on racism. For a society to label someone as being the product of only one of his parents is also disrespectful.
From where I stand I really don't care if he was polka dotted. What counts is his character not his color. However, I simply disapprove of the one drop makes you black rule and consider it an immoral racist imposition.
The problem is that others have feelings too. Or is it that the feelings of the buzzed are the only ones that count? Or are you saying that one should go along with racism because in order not to kill a buzz?
Exactly what I said and exactly what I mean.
Why? Because it's their culture! Neither did I say that this is exclusive to whites since the blacks are joining right in with the same mentality because they have been socially conditioned to join in by the whites.
That's because you are either unfamiliar with the extent of the custom, it's origins, or else arranging to be in ordure not to disturb the buzz. Again I refer you to articles which will inform you.
U.S. Senator Barack Obama and the One-Drop rule - Mary Mitchell
... least Five White Presidents with Black blood in their ancestry. ... That view is racist! People hate OJ now because he is a killer and got off because of money. ...
blogs.suntimes.com/mitchell/2006/12/us_senator_barak_obama_and_the.html
More pages from blogs.suntimes.com
What You White Folks Don't Know
File typeDF - Download PDF Reader
The One-Drop Rule, which says that anyone with any known sub-Saharan "blood" is " ... to accept the racist One-Drop Rule, which defines "black blood" as a biological ...
multiracial.com/site/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=161
excerpt
"One Drop of Blood", by Lawrence Wright
"But the one-drop rule is racist," Daniel says. ... He says of the one-drop rule, "It is so embedded in our perception and policy, ...
www.afn.org/~dks/race/wright.html
Sellout (washingtonpost.com)
... against the taint of Negro blood, the one-drop rule is now embraced by some ... The baleful efflorescence of racist sentiments in the post-World War I era ...
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/sellout.htm
Barack Obama and the One-Drop Rule - News Bloggers
... or Africa, if you have mixed blood you are considered mixed-race. ... The Only Thing Worse than a Racist Liar is...
news.aol.com/newsbloggers/2008/04/13/barack-obama-and-the-one-drop-rule
ONE DROP RULE FOR THE DUMMIES WHO DON'T READ! - iReport.com
AND THE RACIST PECKLER QUOTED AT THE BOTTOM IS THE ONE PALIN USED IN HER SPEECH AT THE RNC...GO FIGURE! The one-drop rule is a historical colloquial term in the ...
www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-120468
READERS REACT:KARYN PARSONS BRINGS UP CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE "ONE DROP ...
... not as easy as the "one drop of black blood (makes one black)" rule would imply. ... racist white men came up with hundreds of years ago to dictate to them ...
blackcelebkids.com/2008/10/04/readers-reactkaryn-parsons-b...s-
Gary Kamiya on Barack Obama, race, and the one-drop rule |
... Obama's candidacy spells the end of the one-drop rule and the beginning of a painful but ... And no one will do more to undercut that racist rule than Obama. ...
www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2008/06/10/obama_race
BTC News: If It Says News,' It Must Be True " Blog Archive " Barack ...
It was simple and easy, just what the racist mind needed. The One-Drop Rule was born. ... Post-partisan, post-One-Drop or not, the only blood that matters is ...
www.btcnews.com/btcnews/1909
Mitsawokett--A 17th Century Native American Settlement in Delaware
He was forced to finesse the equivalent of one drop of Indian blood, however. ... a strict race classification and law which institutionalized the "one drop rule, ...
Last edited:
I'm darker than Obama. Its not about appearance, his negro-ness. Its about historical racism...he's 'tainted' big-time (50%) , hence, a 'darkie'.
Too bad the whites in Kansas couldn't tap into the racial pride thingy, and vote for him...because he's 'one of them'.
Too bad the whites in Kansas couldn't tap into the racial pride thingy, and vote for him...because he's 'one of them'.
I was wondering how long it would be before the racist neo-Nazis decided that the only way to deal with the cognitive dissonance caused by a self-identified black candidate for president was by declaring that he had to be white, whether he considered himself to be or not.
Now I have my answer.
Oh, and my answer to the pseudo-question posed in the opening post is cunningly hidden in the paragraph above. My bet is that the racist neo-Nazis will also be unable to find it.
There is no definition of black...and most "black" people in the United States are actually a significant mix of African and European. Why do you think there's so much variation in skin shade?
The "one-drop rule," the "can you get a cab" rule, or the "could you walk around in the 18th Century South without getting apprehended" rules are probably as good as it gets. And Obama is black by all of them...
I should point out also that we have our first black First Lady, which can't be redefined by any stretch, and a black first family with black children.
The "one-drop rule," the "can you get a cab" rule, or the "could you walk around in the 18th Century South without getting apprehended" rules are probably as good as it gets. And Obama is black by all of them...
I should point out also that we have our first black First Lady, which can't be redefined by any stretch, and a black first family with black children.
Radrook, there may be a few nutjob bloggers who consider Obama black because of the "one drop rule", but for the vast majority of the American (and world) population, he is considered black because
1) he has a black father
2) he looks black
3) he self-identifies with the black community--Rev. Wright's church, for example.
4) he married a black woman.
Given those 4 factors, he could be 100% black, 50% black, or 25% black, and people would still consider him black, realizing that he is really mixed race, as is a large fraction of the black population of America. If he chose to refer to himself as the first Mulatto president or mixed-race president, I would allow him that courtesy as well.
If you would like more insight into Obama's blackness, I suggest you try reading his books. He deals with the issue quite extensively. Or you can continue arguing from ignorance.
At some point in the future questions of race may become irrelevant, much as gender is becoming.
As of 2006 there had been only 35 women in the US Senate, and 16 were currently serving. This year a woman ousted an incumbent senator in New Hampshire and an incumbent woman was ousted in North Carolina and gender didn't really seem to be much of an issue: people (rightfully) focused on what this would do to the balance of power instead.
1) he has a black father
2) he looks black
3) he self-identifies with the black community--Rev. Wright's church, for example.
4) he married a black woman.
Given those 4 factors, he could be 100% black, 50% black, or 25% black, and people would still consider him black, realizing that he is really mixed race, as is a large fraction of the black population of America. If he chose to refer to himself as the first Mulatto president or mixed-race president, I would allow him that courtesy as well.
If you would like more insight into Obama's blackness, I suggest you try reading his books. He deals with the issue quite extensively. Or you can continue arguing from ignorance.
At some point in the future questions of race may become irrelevant, much as gender is becoming.
As of 2006 there had been only 35 women in the US Senate, and 16 were currently serving. This year a woman ousted an incumbent senator in New Hampshire and an incumbent woman was ousted in North Carolina and gender didn't really seem to be much of an issue: people (rightfully) focused on what this would do to the balance of power instead.
Edges
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2008
- Messages
- 277
Speaking as a biracial person:
People identify your race mostly by how you appear. Really, since race has no real biological basis, this is all that race is.
Like Obama, I am half-black and half-white. My mom is fairly light-skinned and I take after her with slighter straighter hair and a teensy bit lighter skin. I get mistaken for Native American and Indian all the time. When I went to Germany, a few people thought I was Turkish. My sister takes after my father and is very pale-skinned. She could pass for white and, in fact, one of her friends did not believe she was half-black until he actually met our mother.
If you did not know that Obama's mother was white, what race would you guess he was? It would be dishonest to say that you would not make a judgment of his race based on the color of his skin.
As to the election, people are focusing on his black ancestry because that is what makes his election historic. It does not matter that he is "only" half black. He is the first man that is not completely white to become the President of the United States. That is momentous not only for what it means for the black community but all minorities in this country. It is proof that we really have made the progress we've been talking about for all of my lifetime at least.
BTW I'm a little confused as to what marrying a black woman has anything to do with the community Obama identifies with, especially in the context that I am engaged to a white man. I don't think that anyone would say that I am white because of that or that I identify more with my white ancestry because of the man I fell in love with. Other than that, I agree with the other reasons people have given for his being identified as black.
People identify your race mostly by how you appear. Really, since race has no real biological basis, this is all that race is.
Like Obama, I am half-black and half-white. My mom is fairly light-skinned and I take after her with slighter straighter hair and a teensy bit lighter skin. I get mistaken for Native American and Indian all the time. When I went to Germany, a few people thought I was Turkish. My sister takes after my father and is very pale-skinned. She could pass for white and, in fact, one of her friends did not believe she was half-black until he actually met our mother.
If you did not know that Obama's mother was white, what race would you guess he was? It would be dishonest to say that you would not make a judgment of his race based on the color of his skin.
As to the election, people are focusing on his black ancestry because that is what makes his election historic. It does not matter that he is "only" half black. He is the first man that is not completely white to become the President of the United States. That is momentous not only for what it means for the black community but all minorities in this country. It is proof that we really have made the progress we've been talking about for all of my lifetime at least.
BTW I'm a little confused as to what marrying a black woman has anything to do with the community Obama identifies with, especially in the context that I am engaged to a white man. I don't think that anyone would say that I am white because of that or that I identify more with my white ancestry because of the man I fell in love with. Other than that, I agree with the other reasons people have given for his being identified as black.
I understand what you are saying, but in focusing on the negative you are leaving the fact that most people are proud of this in a positive way. Pointing out how racists in the minority consider the one drop rule is redundant.
I also don't agree that blacks have been socially conditioned by whites to have a similar mentality. Mixed races have always been "shunned" or made to feel not part of the group by any side. Call it the ugly duckling story or the runt of the litter mentality, but it is hardly from conditioning from another group. Mixed individuals have also taken alot of alienation from the minority race as well. I'm sure you can find simliar examples all over the world between all races, religions, cultures, classes, intelligence, looks, etc. All these groups have a minority that have some form of the one drop rule. People who have beliefs in purity and superiority. This being the norm is quickly fading in this country. There is too much diversity for one group to claim it without being laughed out of the mainstream.
Who's feelings have been hurt by Obama being embraced as the first black president? Whites and blacks are overwhelmingly proud of having any amount of black in the White House as a sign of progress. That's the buzz. Coming out claiming that whites are not embracing his whiteness enough is the kill....and borderline racist in itself. For a white to come out and say, "We have our first half black/half white president. We are on our way to having a black president." is just a joke. There is no other way to look at it other than in the most positive light to heal racism.
Just because there is an element of truth to something, doesn't mean we have to embrace it as a whole truth and use it to push a negative premise.
Yup. As I stated, my wife gets confused for Greek. Her mother is Spanish and father is Mexican. It's funny when we go out in public. My stepson has black hair and dark skin, my daughter is bone white with brown hair, and my youngest is light beige with dirty-blonde hair. They don't look anything like each other till you line them up and see the similar facial features. When they older, they will probably look like three different races, but none of them can be aligned with one. IMO, the best thing for this country is when more people have to check off "other" under race to the point it is irrelevant.
You're right, but it's kind of a bonus point to throw in there.
It adds to how others percieve him as more black. If his wife was white, it would instinctively remind people that he is half white himself, which is contrary to how he self-identifies himself. With Michelle being black, it's easier just to accept his self-identification and leave it at that.