Psychic Samurai applies for MDC...apparently...

[Gr8wight]

In some fairness, these writers have produced a much more coherent version of Mr. Koenig's first protocol, yet the fundamental imbalance with the protocol (that it requires interpretation or subjective judgment, rather flagrantly stated I might add) remains unaddressed. In fact, the refusal to address this rather simplistic issue with the claim seems to be a hallmark of these repeated negotiation proceedings. Getting the claim finished by Friday is probably not possible unless some strong effort is put in to remove this particular concern.

~ Matt

Matt,

Getting the claim finished by this Friday is entirely unnecessary, as Mr. Koenig has already been informed by the JREF that it is not possible to test him on that date. Mr. Koenig knows this, but is ignoring the fact. Of course, he has also been told, very clearly and explicitly, that Mr. Randi will not be present at his test, whenever it may take place, so for him to leave that in simply demonstrates that he is not serious about this endeavour.

This has all been a put-on since the very beginning. As I said in my post of September 19, this has all been leading to this Friday night, where David will present his performance at The Devil's Chair, and publicly proclaim that Randi was afraid to test him.

 

[The Professor]

Professor, I sincerely wish for you to succeed in your challenge for the million dollars, so I am disappointed when you insist on things certain to end in failure.

You seem to reject the idea that JREF has accepted your application, not Mr. Randi personally and that the test currently being discussed is only the preliminary. No payment will occur until you complete a final challenge. Since the reasons you have given are thus unsount, unless it is your claim that your protocol is unworkable without his presence (which would seem a laugable claim, as you've had no opportunity to test such a constraint) and having already been specificially notified that Mr. Randi will not be present at the preliminary test, to continue to insist on such a requirement can only be viewed as an active attempt to ensure your protocol is never accepted. Please relent this point that has already been rejected, or you will only validate the claims of skeptics that your entire purpose is to fail and then attempt to blame others.

Your protocol, as designed, is also set up for failure. Even assuming the JREF would even think of allowing such a condition to determine success or failure by a judge (they will not, it's even specifically rejected in the challenge FAQ), any qualified neutral scientist could likely think of several scientific explanations for voices appearing on a recording given the near lack of any controls in your performed test. Many have been presented in the posts of this very thread. If such scientific explanations can already be suggested before test has even taken place, what would be the point of even going through the effort? Again, this only reinforces the view that you are doing nothing but attempting to fail.

The following is incomplete, and I am certainly no more an official representative of JREF than you are, but I speak plainly when I say that your protocol WILL NOT be accepted until it physically (not observationally) excludes any scientifically explanable means of getting voices on a recording. If you are uncertain how this can be accomplished, you really do need to contact professionals to assist you in climbing this hurdle, or your protocol negotiation is going to be 11 months of you resubmitting essentially the same protocol and getting rejected.

You miss the point .... The Scientist IS THE PROFESSIONAL!
He knows more about what IS and ISN'T scientifically explainable than anyone on this Forum or even the JREF themselves.

 

[The Professor]

Oh the joys of mangled sentence structure. Should have stated Something along the lines of:

Second is the "protocol" mentions secure recording devices bur does not mention the means by which they are secured before, during and after the test. Also does not mention how they are guaranteed to be blank before the test.

You are correct. I will include this part as the negotiations continue.
Thanks for your help!
I feel we are getting closer and closer to a great protocol.

How would "You" word it?

 

[The Professor]

In some fairness, these writers have produced a much more coherent version of Mr. Koenig's first protocol, yet the fundamental imbalance with the protocol (that it requires interpretation or subjective judgment, rather flagrantly stated I might add) remains unaddressed. In fact, the refusal to address this rather simplistic issue with the claim seems to be a hallmark of these repeated negotiation proceedings. Getting the claim finished by Friday is probably not possible unless some strong effort is put in to remove this particular concern.

~ Matt

Are you claiming that a world renowned Scientist of Merit and Award does not know what " SCIENTIFICALLY EXPLAINABLE" means?

 

[gdnp]

Why does James Randi have to be present? You've already been told that he won't be, so why try to include it in your protocol?

TV contract, perhaps?

Clearly, this protocol is not acceptable to the JREF as it requires judging. I would suggest, however, that The Professor run his test this Halloween without official JREF participation and see what he comes up with. If nothing paranormal is demonstrated he may wish to return to the drawing board: perhaps revise his incantation. If something he thinks is paranormal is demonstrated, then this may become the basis for a controlled challenge to be performed next year.

 

[Seanrmr]

Again we are back to the same problem with the AM/FM scanner what is being put in place to stop you picking up a normal radio signal. At the moment there are so many ways still to put a signal on the devices without paranormal means.

Also I think it should be a more specific scientist or a electronics engineer who specialised in communications. though by the time a protocol is finished you shouldn't need a judge as other people will point out. though you may want to hire one as a consultant to help you write a protocol I hear scientist know a little bit about writing them. A consultant would be expensive but would be less than 25,000 hopefully.

 

[Azrael 5]

Here is the Protocol as directed.


I, David Koenig, will sit on The Devil's Chair in Lake Helen Florida on 10/31/2008 and 10/31/2009

and give the following invocation.

*snip*
Reciting nonsense that has no worth is pointless.

James Randi himself must be present to represent the James Randi Eductional Foundation's Million Dollar Challenge in Lake Helen at the Devil's Chair. No secondary substitutes should be acceptable since I've signed a contract with James Randi himself and He is the one responsible for the Million Dollar payment.

Why when told weeks ago would you ask again for Randi to be there?

An AM/FM scanner, white, and pink noise generators are turned on at the same time as several secure recording devices.

The devices will be turned on before the initial Invocation and will be left on for 27 minutes.

During this time the Invocation will be given once again approximately 15 minutes into the test.

I will also ask for a Name, a Place and the Meaning of Life.

The recording instruments will be examined. The tape recordings, and digital recordings will be viewed and listened to.

Since the devices were blank prior to the Invocation the following will be true.

If any evidence is found on the tapes or digital recordings that is NOT SCIENTIFICALLY EXPLAINABLE it will be considered a successful test of the Paranormal.

A prominent and neutral Scientist will be present when the recordings are played. If he or she has a Scientific Explanation for the voices or images on the recordings then the test will be considered a failure.



David Koenig[/quote]

What happened to asking questions in languages and sealed envelopes? Scientists can be fooled.How can a scientist say something that has no scientific merit(EVP)is unexplainable.Secondly this is classed as "judging",and that is against the application rules(which you should have read.)

 

[Mojo]

You miss the point .... The Scientist IS THE PROFESSIONAL!
He knows more about what IS and ISN'T scientifically explainable than anyone on this Forum or even the JREF themselves.

Who is "The Scientist"? You seem to have forgotten to name him in your protocol, of which he appears to be an essential component.

 

[RoboTimbo]

I am willing to negotiate.

James Randi need not be present as long as the Million Dollars is there in cash or is verified to be paid promptly IN CASH ... Not part of the real estate belonging to the JREF.

Now we are getting closer ... Agree?

Disagree. This is absolute fantasy on your part. Even in your wildest dreams, this wouldn't happen.

Your protocol describes a staged magic act. Even if accpeted as is, this would be the preliminary challenge. You don't get the million until you do it for the final challenge.

Somehow, you've got a mental image of Randi showing up carrying bank bags with dollar signs on them. How do you get so many carts before so many horses? Get the protocol nailed down first. You aren't even in the ballpark with that yet.

 

[The Professor]

Matt,

Getting the claim finished by this Friday is entirely unnecessary, as Mr. Koenig has already been informed by the JREF that it is not possible to test him on that date. Mr. Koenig knows this, but is ignoring the fact. Of course, he has also been told, very clearly and explicitly, that Mr. Randi will not be present at his test, whenever it may take place, so for him to leave that in simply demonstrates that he is not serious about this endeavour.

This has all been a put-on since the very beginning. As I said in my post of September 19, this has all been leading to this Friday night, where David will present his performance at The Devil's Chair, and publicly proclaim that Randi was afraid to test him.

You have been proven WRONG once again!
It is not logical for me NOT to take the Challenge. I am totally dedicated to doing it! You can read about it on other threads.

You have been pretty forthcoming with your prediction that I will be at the Devil's Chair and claiming Randi is dodging me. I hope you are just as forthcoming with your apology when you are proven wrong.

The Protocol is moving right along. Things are going well. Jeff and I are working on it. Several email just this evening

 

[Azrael 5]

I am willing to negotiate.

James Randi need not be present as long as the Million Dollars is there in cash or is verified to be paid promptly IN CASH ... Not part of the real estate belonging to the JREF.

Now we are getting closer ... Agree?

I was under the impression you had read the rules when you applied for the challenge?
Shows how wrong I can be.

[Rule]9. At the formal test, in advance, an independent person will be placed in charge of a personal check from James Randi for US$10,000. In the event that the claimant is successful under the agreed-upon terms and conditions, that check shall be immediately surrendered to the claimant, and within ten days the James Randi Educational Foundation will pay to the claimant the remainder of the reward, for a total of US$1,000,000.

Bolding mine.
Not at the prelimnary test.

 

[The Professor]

There is no judging other than what normally takes place in everyday life.

Something like "It depends on what the meaning of IS IS?"

It will be Scientifically Explainable or Not, just as the JREF MDC has stated.

 

[The Professor]

TV contract, perhaps?

Clearly, this protocol is not acceptable to the JREF as it requires judging. I would suggest, however, that The Professor run his test this Halloween without official JREF participation and see what he comes up with. If nothing paranormal is demonstrated he may wish to return to the drawing board: perhaps revise his incantation. If something he thinks is paranormal is demonstrated, then this may become the basis for a controlled challenge to be performed next year.

As you know members of the JREF Forum have contacted the Lake Helen Police Department in an effort to Sabotage the MDC protocol. You can read about it on this thread if you'd like.

Because of that attempt to destroy my Challenge I have had to change many of the set protocols that have been agreed to by the authorities before the JREF Forum members negative activities.

I've notified Jeff Wagg about the situation.

James Randi will no longer be needed at the Cemetary. He can spend Halloween at home if he wishes. The digital tapes will be examined BEFORE the test as well as after. We are working on the security issues.

We are getting much closer to an acceptable Protocol!
Thanks for all of the help!

 

[Doubt]

I am willing to negotiate.

James Randi need not be present as long as the Million Dollars is there in cash or is verified to be paid promptly IN CASH ... Not part of the real estate belonging to the JREF.

Getting ahead of yourself. First you have to pass the preliminary test before getting a shot at the million. And if you were to get that far, there is no reason for the million to be on hand.

Also, neither I nor anybody else posting here can negotiate with you. We can just point out what we think you are doing right or wrong. If you want to negotiate, then you should be communicating more with Jeff Wagg.

Now we are getting closer ... Agree?

No. You have not moved one inch forward. This miserable excuse for a protocol is not significantly different than what you were proposing when you were flailing away without having stated your claim.

You are not even trying to come up with a valid protocol. The only sham I see associated with the MDC is your supposed effort to try and get the million.

 

[Doubt]

You are correct. I will include this part as the negotiations continue.
Thanks for your help!
I feel we are getting closer and closer to a great protocol.

How would "You" word it?

That is your job. Or rather, your responsibility. If you were serious, I might be willing to help. From what I can see, you are not serious and I am not willing to waste my time.

But for the casual reader, nothing I stated there is going to make the protocol any better since the important part about securing the recording material is not a statement of what is to be done but how it is to be done.

 

[Gr8wight]

Are you claiming that a world renowned Scientist of Merit and Award does not know what " SCIENTIFICALLY EXPLAINABLE" means?

What a "world renowned Scientist of Merit and Award" knows or does not know is irrelevant. Randi has made it a career to demonstrate how easy it is to fool a "world renowned Scientist of Merit and Award." Uri Gellar did it repeatedly. Besides, a "world renowned Scientist of Merit and Award" constitutes a judge, something the challenge rules expressly forbid. You know this, David. Why do you continue to harp on protocol points that you have been told, explicitly, over and over again, will not be allowed? Oh, yeah. I remember.

 

[e-sabbath]

I fail to understand the need for an AM/FM scanner. Why is that part of the test?

I believe I could understand what is going on further if The Professor would explain to us what he is attempting, in a narrative structure, if possible. He did promise me he would explain the story of what was happening, and has failed to follow up on that.


Is this invocation truly necessary, or just for entertainment's sake?
Why the Devil's Chair?

 

[Jackalgirl]

Are you claiming that a world renowned Scientist of Merit and Award does not know what " SCIENTIFICALLY EXPLAINABLE" means?

It doesn't matter. As has been explained to you many, many, many times, the outcome must be

SELF-EVIDENT

this means that the outcome may NOT require the judgement of ANYONE as to whether it was sucessful, regardless of the expertise of the proposed judge. No. Judging. Allowed.

You have to have a protocol that builds in controls for all of the possible NORMAL things that could be happening, so that the only possible remaining explanation is that the effect is paranormal.

Why are you demanding that Randi be present when you already know he will not?

Why are you writing this up for Oct 31st of 2008 when you already know that the JREF will not test you until Oct 31 2009?

You already knew all of this. Why are you putting it in your protocol? Did you just forget, or something?

 

[Czarcasm]

Here is the Protocol as directed.


I, David Koenig, will sit on The Devil's Chair in Lake Helen Florida on 10/31/2008 and 10/31/2009

and give the following invocation.

Visions I see, and fleeting deep impressions.
Behind the portal, on the other side,
Lies that which I call home,
For the circle has been well nigh trod
And the end approaches the beginning.

I seek the Way. All ways my feet have trod.
The Way of Fire calls me with fierce appeal.
Naught in me seeks the way of peace;
Naught in me yearns for earth.

Let the fire rage, the flames devour;
Let all the dross be burnt,
And let me enter through that Gate,
And tread the Way of Fire.

From beneath me arises the energy of the Earth,
my home and my foundation;
From above me pours down the
Power of the Light of the Sun and the enchanting Moon;
To my right hand flows
the strength to control and direct, the power of magic;
To my left hand comes
the skill to divine and heal, the source of blessing;
Before me arises
the perfected one I strive to become, my magical true self.
Behind me falls the one I was,
and with it all my discarded failures.
Around me circle the eternal stars,
lamps of wisdom in the deeps of space.
Within me grows the flame of life,
the light of experience and understanding.

Beneath me is the Earth, mother of my physical being.
Above me is my guiding star, shining forever.
Behind me are the memories I'm freeing.
Before me is the light I'll discover.
To my right comes the power of reason.
To my left flows the knowledge of healing.
Around me is the joy of all seasons.
Within me is wisdom revealing.

O Thou Who givest sustenance to the universe,
From Whom all things proceed,
To Whom all things return,
Unveil to us the face of the true Spiritual Sun
Hidden by a disc of golden light,
That we may know the truth
And do our whole duty,
As we journey to Thy sacred feet.

O Faith, awake!
I now place my faith in the Power of Faith that I AM.
I AM FAITH.

O Strength, awake!
I now place my faith in the Power of Strength that I AM.
I AM STRENGTH.

O Wisdom, awake!
I now place my faith in the Power of Wisdom that I AM.
I AM WISDOM.

O Love, awake!
I now place my faith in the Power of Love that I AM.
I AM LOVE.

O Will, awake!
I now place my faith in the Power of Will that I AM.
I AM WILL.

O Authority, awake!
I now place my faith in the Power of Authority that I AM.
I AM AUTHORITY.

O Understanding, awake!
I now place my faith
in the Power of Understanding that I AM.
I AM UNDERSTANDING.

O Enthusiasm, awake!
I now place my faith in the Power of Enthusiasm that I AM. I AM ENTHUSIASM.

O Imagination, awake!
I now place my faith in the Power of Imagination that I AM. I AM IMAGINATION.

O Order, awake!
I now place my faith in the Power of Order that I AM.
I AM ORDER.

O Forgiveness, awake!
I now place my faith in the Power of Forgiveness that I AM.
I AM FORGIVENESS.

O Life, awake!
I now place my faith in the Power of Life that I AM.
I AM LIFE.

I am a master mind
and all the elements hear my voice and gladly do my will.
Fear and unbelief, which have bound my will,
have been caught and turned aside.
Now my will knows no bounds,
and I have but to speak and it is done.
And it is so!

MAKE MANIFEST!

James Randi himself must be present to represent the James Randi Eductional Foundation's Million Dollar Challenge in Lake Helen at the Devil's Chair. No secondary substitutes should be acceptable since I've signed a contract with James Randi himself and He is the one responsible for the Million Dollar payment.

An AM/FM scanner, white, and pink noise generators are turned on at the same time as several secure recording devices.

The devices will be turned on before the initial Invocation and will be left on for 27 minutes.

During this time the Invocation will be given once again approximately 15 minutes into the test.

I will also ask for a Name, a Place and the Meaning of Life.

The recording instruments will be examined. The tape recordings, and digital recordings will be viewed and listened to.

Since the devices were blank prior to the Invocation the following will be true.

If any evidence is found on the tapes or digital recordings that is NOT SCIENTIFICALLY EXPLAINABLE it will be considered a successful test of the Paranormal.

A prominent and neutral Scientist will be present when the recordings are played. If he or she has a Scientific Explanation for the voices or images on the recordings then the test will be considered a failure.

If the Scientist has NO SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION for the voices or images, then the test will be considered a success.

David Koenig

This is either a bad joke, and thus off-topic, a an even worse insult. You have ignored every bit of advice given you, along with the basic tenets of the MDC itself, which you supposedly agreed to previously, and as far as I'm concerned anyone who attempts to help you from here on out is wasting their time.
Since The Professor obviously has no intention of participating in good faith, I think this thread should be moved elsewhere.

 

[Mojo]

As you know members of the JREF Forum have contacted the Lake Helen Police Department in an effort to Sabotage the MDC protocol. You can read about it on this thread if you'd like.

Links to evidence of intent to sabotage, please.