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Peter Dale Scott now moving into the MIHOP camp

Metamars, shouldn't you stop wasting your scarce and valuable time, and get going on your 9/11 wiki? Don't you have a sense of urgency about that? What is the point in wasting your s. and v. time with the likes of the losers 'round here?

This is a public forum. Despite the whining "debunkers", who, for one reason or another, are simply incapable of seeing through the defects of their arguments and viewpoints (or unwilling), it's reasonable to assume that there a lurkers who are more reasonable.

If the only people who ever read these posts were debunkers and truthers, there'd be far less point to them.

BTW, I have no intention of filling out a debate wiki. I'm more interested in building the plumbing, but then only if it makes sense in terms of my career goals. When I need your, or anybody else's, input on how I prioritize my time, I'll let you know.
 
The rigid black and white, conspiracy-theory thinking employed by many "debunkers" on this site makes this distinction impossible to comprehend.

Yeah, it's something to behold, isn't it? You can observe similar partisan rigidity and fanaticism (not to mention nastiness) at other forums, such at democraticunderground.com, when you present an idea which doesn't meet with the herd's approval, but even so, it's particularly inappropriate in a forum which is supposed to be friendly to critical thinking.

Maybe that's my problem. The subtitle of the forum actually says,

"a place to discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly and lively way".

It doesn't say "employ ... critical thinking", it says "discuss ... critical thinking".

Besides the very human tendency to run with the herd (whatever herd one is identified with, or employed by), I do believe that debunkers are being misled by some of their 'leaders' or opinion makers, who are doing so deliberately. You can search for a post (or maybe two) of mine on Rupert Sheldrake's encounter with a 'professional' debunker. Also, Paul LaViolette reported a conversation he participated in, in which a reporter told him that an agency of the US government (I think it was the Commerce Department, but I don't recall, exactly) would actually offer to instruct reporters on 'debunking' certain science topics. (Or non-science, as the case may be.)

If you listen to Chomsky's CD, 'Propaganda and Control of the public mind', he gets into how much $$ industry pumps into school course material. It was a stunning figure (in fact, so stunning that I have a problem believing it, though it may have only been true in the period after WW2). IIRC, he had been discussing information from the book Selling Free Enterprise: The Business Assault on Labor and Liberalism, 1945-60.
 
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The rigid black and white, conspiracy-theory thinking employed by many "debunkers" on this site makes this distinction impossible to comprehend.

Some of us do not have to think too hard or too black and white to make a fool of your claims in a thread.
 
Has it ever crossed your mind that the reason the media hasn't covered 911 CTs, is maybe because they have no merit?
 
Besides the very human tendency to run with the herd (whatever herd one is identified with, or employed by)

You're saying this to a group mainly comprised of Atheists who don't believe in the supernatural ( ghosts, psychics, big foot, etc )
 
Some of us do not have to think too hard or too black and white to make a fool of your claims in a thread.

I've yet to see evidence of this. Perhaps you'd like to prove me wrong by showing how easily you can differentiate between "media-controlling conspiracy" and "media-filtering non-conspiracy".
 
I've yet to see evidence of this. Perhaps you'd like to prove me wrong by showing how easily you can differentiate between "media-controlling conspiracy" and "media-filtering non-conspiracy".


I made a fool of your 7/7 claims, you had to run away
 
Gee whiz, it's a good thing you informed me that I was hand-waving. Otherwise, I would have thought that I'd completely destroyed the premise of your nonsense:

Before I waste any more time with you, why don't you inform us whether or not you think Chomsky was "hand waving" in presenting his arguments in Necessary Illusions. BTW, this book has over 700 references.

Also, do tell us, won't you, whether or not you think Chomsky was lying when he explictly denied references to his notions of media distortion, by a critic of his, as a "conspiracy".

Believe it or not, if it turns out that you deem Chomsky to be a liar, who writes 'hand waving" books, with 700+ references, on media distortion, I just may conclude that it is you who is irrational, and thus not worth 1 more second of my time.
Evasion noted. It is quite revealing that you cannot answer the straightforward questions posed.

Once again:

How are the media of other nations being persuaded and/or compelled not to do stories supporting 9/11 conspiracy theories? How are the typical competitive forces which cause news media outlets to outscoop each other being restrained sufficiently that they do not pursue 9/11 conspiracy theories? How is the individual professionalism of investigative journalists and reporters in uncovering and presenting important stories to the public being curtailed such that they do not pursue 9/11 conspiracy stories?

Answering the above questions, and providing tangible evidence to support your answers, is of necessity if you wish to get anyone to believe your position. So, please, present your answers and the evidence which supports them. I trust it's something more substantial than just referencing Noam Chomsky again.

You have a golden opportunity to present your case and sway people to your point of view. You need only answer the relevant questions and support those answers with some verifiable evidence. Why are you not seizing this opportunity?
 
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Evasion noted. It is quite revealing that you cannot answer the straightforward questions posed.

Once again:

How are the media of other nations being persuaded and/or compelled not to do stories supporting 9/11 conspiracy theories? How are the typical competitive forces which cause news media outlets to outscoop each other being restrained sufficiently that they do not pursue 9/11 conspiracy theories? How is the individual professionalism of investigative journalists and reporters in uncovering and presenting important stories to the public being curtailed such that they do not pursue 9/11 conspiracy stories?

Answering the above questions, and providing tangible evidence to support your answers, is of necessity if you wish to get anyone to believe your position. So, please, present your answers and the evidence which supports them. I trust it's something more substantial than just referencing Noam Chomsky again.

You have a golden opportunity to present your case and sway people to your point of view. You need only answer the relevant questions and support those answers with some verifiable evidence. Why are you not seizing this opportunity?

Anybody who is seriously interested in why I consider Chomsky, Barrie Zwicker, etc., credible on the subject of media distortion and inaction is just going to have to read them. It's not my job to hold their hands. I wouldn't necessarily mind using the forum as a means of teaching, but that's not my priority. If that doesn't suit you, that's just too bad.

That doesn't mean that I'll never again go into some of their works and details of their arguments. In fact, before I shelved Zwicker's Towers of Deception, I had marked off additional sections that I intended to post here at JREF. However, that wasn't a priority when I shelved the book, and it certainly isn't now.

As for the question of why, after already having accepting a Chomsky-like viewpoint, I find the application of his general viewpoint applicable to the specific case of 911 to be valid (even if Chomsky, himself, doesn't go there), I consider this self-evident. Basically, the same forces that mitigate against forcefully challenging political power structures are there wrt both 911 and, say, the question of GW Bush being a war criminal.

Since you couldn't trouble yourself to answer a couple of simple questions of mine, while wanting me to spend great gobs of my own time holding your hand (even if you didn't realize that that's what you're asking for), and since you don't seem to listen very well, it's off to my ignore list you go. Your evasion of my simple questions is duly noted, and congratulations - you're my first ignore-lister at JREF. I suggest that, in your dealings with other posters in the future, if you don't want to make it to their ignore lists, you keep the principle of reciprocity in mind, and don't be overly presumptuous of what you think they owe you, in terms of commitments of their time.
 
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Hey, Metamars, Chomsky said your posts are silly. How 'bout that?
 
I'd like to oblige you, but paying the bills comes first. Perhaps if JREF wasn't such a hostile environment, there'd be a vast supply of posters with more time on their hands than I have, to elaborate.


yet you have seemings endless amounts of time to go on and on about your WIKI debate which no one is paying attention to. You post meaningless drivel and threads that say a lot of nothing. When asked to make your point you cannot. Post your vapid nonsense elsewhere as you are wasting our time.
 
yet you have seemings endless amounts of time to go on and on about your WIKI debate which no one is paying attention to. You post meaningless drivel and threads that say a lot of nothing. When asked to make your point you cannot. Post your vapid nonsense elsewhere as you are wasting our time.

Sometimes what appears to be a lot of nothing is actually a foreign language that we don't understand.
 
Anybody who is seriously interested in why I consider Chomsky, Barrie Zwicker, etc., credible on the subject of media distortion and inaction is just going to have to read them. It's not my job to hold their hands.
This does not answer the questions I asked. No evidence has been provided.

That doesn't mean that I'll never again go into some of their works and details of their arguments.
Someone arguing something is true does not make the argument true. Evidence is required to support the argument. Please provide tangible evidence and not just opinion pieces.

As for the question of why, after already having accepting a Chomsky-like viewpoint, I find the application of his general viewpoint applicable to the specific case of 911 to be valid (even if Chomsky, himself, doesn't go there), I consider this self-evident. Basically, the same forces that mitigate against forcefully challenging political power structures are there wrt both 911 and, say, the question of GW Bush being a war criminal.
Your response is vague and lacks the necessary detail to support your argument. Please provide tangible evidence to support your position that media across the globe are being controlled and/or persuaded to ignore 9/11 conspiracy stories.

Since you couldn't trouble yourself to answer a couple of simple questions of mine, while wanting me to spend great gobs of my own time holding your hand (even if you didn't realize that that's what you're asking for), and since you don't seem to listen very well, it's off to my ignore list you go. Your evasion of my simple questions is duly noted, and congratulations - you're my first ignore-lister at JREF. I suggest that, in your dealings with other posters in the future, if you don't want to make it to their ignore lists, you keep the principle of reciprocity in mind, and don't be overly presumptuous of what you think they owe you, in terms of commitments of their time.
As is quite typical of 9/11 conspiracists, when challenged to present tangible evidence to support their claims, they elect to blame the questioner for daring to ask for such evidence. They complain about the questioner and put them on ignore rather than offer their evidence.

It's a rather odd way of supporting their case, isn't it? You'd think they'd be overjoyed and most eager to provide their earth-shattering evidence which proves their point and makes the questioner look foolish.


Astute obsevers will also note that metamars has yet again written many words while saying nothing of consequence nor answering a single one of the relevant questions that has been put to him. This is very telling indeed.
 
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