All this talk about Obama's religion misses the obvious conclusion

[tomwaits]

Maybe he just isn't a very religious person? Hell, his wife probably dragged him to Rev. Wright's church on Christmas and Easter!

 

[Denver]

It's actually a fairly common cycle for a person to drop their religion as they enter their age of reason (usually in the teens), then pick it up again once they marry and start a family, with the motive that they are doing it for the kids sake.

 

[Oliver]

All this talk about Obama's religion misses the obvious conclusion

Yes, "Religion sucks".

 

[fuelair]

Maybe he just isn't a very religious person? Hell, his wife probably dragged him to Rev. Wright's church on Christmas and Easter!

That's been my assumption from the beginning - politicians are forced to appear religious because of certain people's stupidity.

 

[Cain]

Both of his biological parents were atheists. A friend who has read his books "gets the sense" that he's secretly a non-believer. Either way I would not be surprised.

 

[Whiplash]

That's been my assumption from the beginning - politicians are forced to appear religious because of certain people's stupidity.

Assuming they are Democrats of course. If they are Republicans, they obviously are complete die hard believers who will burn/ban books and insist on creationism being taught. After all, that was all stated about Palin in less than 24 hours of her being announced, before anyone could do any reasonably deep and thorough investigation of the facts.

 

[gtc]

Hell, his wife probably dragged him to Rev. Wright's church on Christmas and Easter!

Didn't he attend the church more regularly than that?

 

[Jeff Corey]

This might be factual.http://www.newsweek.com/id/145971

 

[mhaze]

OBAMA:Well, I think it’s the power of the recognition of God, or the recognition of a larger truth that is being shared between me and an audience. That’s something you learn watching ministers, quite a bit. What they call the Holy Spirit. They want the Holy Spirit to come down before they’re preaching, right?

GGG:Is Jesus someone who you feel you have a regular connection with now, a personal connection with in your life?
OBAMA:Yeah. Yes. I think some of the thigns I talked about earlier are addressed through, are channeled through my Christian faith and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

GG Do you have people in your life that you look to for guidance?
OBAMA:Well, my pastor is certainly someone who I have an enormous amount of respect for.

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/06/06/barack-obama-the-2004-god-factor-interview-transcript/

 

[XBoxWarrior]

The sad thing is...that politicians in the US have to play the religious card.

Sure, everyone of rational thought says, "there is a separation". But that never enters into the campaign reality.

I will long be dead before a politician can proudly say, "that stuff is NONSENSE".

 

[Cleon]

Assuming they are Democrats of course. If they are Republicans, they obviously are complete die hard believers who will burn/ban books and insist on creationism being taught.

Well, there's a difference that you're ignoring.

Obama, whether he actually is as religious as he says or is just "playing the game," has been very clear about the fact that religion should not play a role in government.

McCain, whether he's "playing the game" or not, is now saying stupid and false things like "the Constitution clearly established the United States as a Christian nation."

Conservative politicians are known for wanting religion pushed into politics, particularly schools. When self-proclaimed conservatives start going on about God and Jesus, it's not a huge jump to conclude they're on board with the "creationism is science and public schools should have sanctioned prayer" wing of the conservative movement. (I say conservative here, and not Republican, because it's a dirty little secret that there are a fair number of Democrats--mostly on the local and state levels--who are also of this mindset.)


It might make you feel better to pretend there's a double standard at work here, but there really isn't. It's not about the personal religious beliefs of the politician; it's about whether that politician thinks those beliefs should have the force of law behind them.

 

[gtc]

This might be factual.http://www.newsweek.com/id/145971

Thanks for that.

It seems to me to be wishful thinking to believe that Obama isn't religious. Or to think that his Presidency wouldn't be influenced by his religion:

"what was intellectual and what was emotional joined, and the belief in the redemptive power of Jesus Christ, that he died for our sins, that through him we could achieve eternal life—but also that, through good works we could find order and meaning here on Earth and transcend our limits and our flaws and our foibles—I found that powerful."

He says he prays every day, typically for "forgiveness for my sins and flaws, which are many, the protection of my family, and that I'm carrying out God's will, not in a grandiose way, but simply that there is an alignment between my actions and what he would want."

 

[gtc]

Obama, whether he actually is as religious as he says or is just "playing the game," has been very clear about the fact that religion should not play a role in government.

Can you provide some references for that statement?

McCain, whether he's "playing the game" or not, is now saying stupid and false things like "the Constitution clearly established the United States as a Christian nation."

Well, the following quote is more than a year old but I think this is what you are talking about:

Q. A recent poll found that 55 percent of Americans believe the U.S. Constitution establishes a Christian nation. What do you think?

A. I would probably have to say yes, that the Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation. But I say that in the broadest sense. The lady that holds her lamp beside the golden door doesn't say, “I only welcome Christians.” We welcome the poor, the tired, the huddled masses. But when they come here they know that they are in a nation founded on Christian principles.

To say that the United States was founded on Christian principles seems neither false nor stupid.

 

[geni]

Public relgious image doesn't mean much. It seems likely that blair was a lot more relgious than he let on during him PM years.

 

[ProbeX]

Assuming they are Democrats of course. If they are Republicans, they obviously are complete die hard believers who will burn/ban books and insist on creationism being taught. After all, that was all stated about Palin in less than 24 hours of her being announced, before anyone could do any reasonably deep and thorough investigation of the facts.

Whoah, did you just put Palin, reasonably deep and facts in the same sentence?

Interesting.

 

[Cleon]

Can you provide some references for that statement?

Here, take it from people unsympathetic to his position:

"Whatever we once were, we're no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers. We should acknowledge this and realize that when we're formulating policies from the state house to the Senate floor to the White House, we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."

To me, that's a fairly clear statement that governmental policy should be decided on secular principles that apply to people of all religions and no religion. (How many Republican politicians would even mention unbelievers?)

YMMV, but I stand by my statement.

Well, the following quote is more than a year old but I think this is what you are talking about:



To say that the United States was founded on Christian principles seems neither false nor stupid.

Arguable, but saying that "the Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation" is both false and stupid, broad sense or no.

False, because the Constitution did no such thing.

Stupid, because I would damn well expect a candidate for the President of the United States to have read the frakking Constitution!

If you want to harp on the "broad sense" bit (I believe mentalists call that an "out"), I challenge you to find a single Christian principle embodied in the Constitution. Or, for that matter, a Jewish principle, a Muslim principle, or a Scientologist principle. It is a secular document, through and through.

 

[BenBurch]

Assuming they are Democrats of course. If they are Republicans, they obviously are complete die hard believers who will burn/ban books and insist on creationism being taught. After all, that was all stated about Palin in less than 24 hours of her being announced, before anyone could do any reasonably deep and thorough investigation of the facts.

Obviously. Or they would be Democrats.

 

[gtc]

If you want to harp on the "broad sense" bit (I believe mentalists call that an "out"), I challenge you to find a single Christian principle embodied in the Constitution. Or, for that matter, a Jewish principle, a Muslim principle, or a Scientologist principle. It is a secular document, through and through.

Any chance that you will a) read the article I linked to and b) stop trying to poison the well and c) stop misrepresenting what he said?

If you can't do those, can you try to be at least a little bit more subtle about it?

 

[MattusMaximus]

The sad thing is...that politicians in the US have to play the religious card.

Sure, everyone of rational thought says, "there is a separation". But that never enters into the campaign reality.

I will long be dead before a politician can proudly say, "that stuff is NONSENSE".

Pete Stark - the first U.S. politician in the Congress to openly declare his atheism.

Progress is being made, there is hope.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Obviously. Or they would be Democrats.

I have to agree with Whip on this one. Just because they're Democrats doesn't mean they're secular in their governance.

We just went through an idiotic ordeal in Illinois whereby the Democratic legislature passed a law requiring a "moment of silence" each day in the public schools (read: state-sponsored prayer). The only person in the state senate who voted against the bill was a Republican, and the Democratic governor vetoed the bill, whereupon the Democratic legislature overturned his veto. Eventually, after much public outcry (apparently the public was better educated on church-state separation than the legislature ), many Democrats & Republicans came together to revise (read: kill) the previous bill - the revision was never brought up for a vote.

In the end the courts, as usual, stepped in and put an end to the nonsense. So much for pigeonholing by party, and thank goodness for the judiciary!