NSA Document Flight 93 intercepted coming soon

Status
Not open for further replies.
I can't remain silent on this any longer.

ULTIMA1, if your information is true, then here is what I know:

Your name. That you work at NSA. Your telephone number. Some of your training history. That you have access to CRITIC.

You have posted all of this information freely and of your own volition on a very public website(s). You have completely flaunted OPSEC protocols by putting this information into cyberspace. You have identified yourself to the entire world as a person with access to classified information. If in fact you were read into TS, you would have signed a lifetime-binding non-disclosure agreement that you are dangerously close to violating. You have not posted anything classified, that much is true. As a person with access, you have a duty to protect that information - as well as the fact that you have access to it.

Letting things like this slip to family is expected and forgiveable in most cases as long as you are not actually disclosing classified information. But you have chosen to post it on a forum which anyone can read, including those who would seek to do us harm.

I am going to send the authorities at Ft. George G. Meade a transcript of this thread. If you worked for me, I'd have your clearance pulled for review immediately.
 
JoeyDonuts said:
I can't remain silent on this any longer.

ULTIMA1, if your information is true, then here is what I know:

Your name. That you work at NSA. Your telephone number. Some of your training history. That you have access to CRITIC.

You have posted all of this information freely and of your own volition on a very public website(s). You have completely flaunted OPSEC protocols by putting this information into cyberspace. You have identified yourself to the entire world as a person with access to classified information. If in fact you were read into TS, you would have signed a lifetime-binding non-disclosure agreement that you are dangerously close to violating. You have not posted anything classified, that much is true. As a person with access, you have a duty to protect that information - as well as the fact that you have access to it.

Letting things like this slip to family is expected and forgiveable in most cases as long as you are not actually disclosing classified information. But you have chosen to post it on a forum which anyone can read, including those who would seek to do us harm.

I am going to send the authorities at Ft. George G. Meade a transcript of this thread. If you worked for me, I'd have your clearance pulled for review immediately.
Click to expand...

Ya know, I thought about doing the same thing myself, but decided against it. Yes, if he is who he claims to be then his actions here are at best unethical and at the worst, treason. In either case I'd think that losing his clearance would be the least of his worries.

But after thinking about, I don't know - call it a hunch, I believe the good folks over at Ft. Meade are already fully aware of this thread and have been reading along, having a good laugh while preparing a course of action.

Hell, They could've created the OP and are pulling our legs. Slow month for cryptologists? Who knows.
 
Either way, I just shot this off to U.S. Army CID.

If he's legit he's got some serious damage control to do.

If he's a fake, he's probably going to disappear.

I realize diming him out to CID will seem harsh to some. But this goes beyond just CTs and debunking them. He's put information out there that could put not only HIM in danger, but everyone he works with. OPSEC rules are there for a reason. I apologize in advance to the JREF administrators, but you have to understand I had a DUTY to report him - for his own safety if nothing else.
 
JoeyDonuts said:
Either way, I just shot this off to U.S. Army CID.

If he's legit he's got some serious damage control to do.

If he's a fake, he's probably going to disappear.

I realize diming him out to CID will seem harsh to some. But this goes beyond just CTs and debunking them. He's put information out there that could put not only HIM in danger, but everyone he works with. OPSEC rules are there for a reason. I apologize in advance to the JREF administrators, but you have to understand I had a DUTY to report him - for his own safety if nothing else.
Click to expand...

Your call dude. Just giving my .02
 
JoeyDonuts said:
I am going to send the authorities at Ft. George G. Meade a transcript of this thread. If you worked for me, I'd have your clearance pulled for review immediately.
Click to expand...

Please feel free to do what you like, but you are not the only person not to know enough that i have done nothing wrong.

Also you are not the only person that has sent things out to try to get me in trouble but i am still here and still work where i have proven.
 
nor does he work for the NSA. we knew that. WE know he is a liar, so why are you guys letting this thread continue? he hasn't presented the FOIA request as LASHL has asked for.
 
Arus808 said:
nor does he work for the NSA. we knew that. WE know he is a liar, so why are you guys letting this thread continue? he hasn't presented the FOIA request as LASHL has asked for.
Click to expand...

Gee, it seems you are the liers, since i did post the FOIA request.

Please stop the lies, grow up.
 
Unfortunately people here aren't as gullible as over at ATS. I would contact a friend of mine who works at the NSA if it weren't for the fact that such an inquiry would be too embarrassing on top of it being a while since we talked.

Heck just the hours alone can point out the fraud here.
 
Last edited:
And to get 500, you can give us some clues about the document -
how many pages?
Any specific names, places, institutions, etc. that you remember it dealing with?
Anything else we can ID it by? This is to your advantage, to defuse in advance any charge that you just copied any page that mentions 93 you find in a stack and just assert that that's the one and it DOES say 93 was intercepted, even tho it doesn't seem to.

Another 500 cred points for answering at least some of Totovator's questions to his satisfaction. Here they are again. If you can do these two(and the first matches the doc you eventually get), it will be clear to me that we've all been misunderstanding you. If you feel in over your head, or confused, or having second thoughts, or suddenly realize how deep your problems are, you can PM me as human to human.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
Please feel free to do what you like, but you are not the only person not to know enough that i have done nothing wrong.
Click to expand...

I know enough to respect the rules of OPSEC. If you are who you say, you are charged with protecting the secrets of our nation. I don't trust you with them if you are going to jump on message boards and brag about everything you work with. You crossed a line when you said what you had access to. You've done the FSB/SVR's job for them. Congratulations.
 
I just remembered an odd aspect to this whole story. I recall a potentially disturbing accusation leveled against mr. Misner (whom this poster believed to be Ultima1, as he says) at ATS. The poster was named Karma Incarnate, and misspelled Misner as Messner, IIRC, as if he knew it from speech and not writing. I can't locate the post in searches, and don't seem to have saved it like i thought i did. It was up for a while, but perhaps finally pulled down. I don't want to repeat it here on the thread, since I have only my memory to call on, and it might be sensitive enough I'd need to keep it down low for legal reasons. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, or is curious what i recall of it, PM me. This includes Ultima1.

ETA - oh yeah, or just check my blog. I fail at opsec worse than Ultima.
 
Last edited:
Totovader said:
I have come up with a way that we can at least begin to confirm the identity of ULTIMA1 without getting the authorities involved or calling the phone number of a person who's identity he might have stolen.

I have done some research and made some calls.

I would ask that others join me in pressing ULTIMA1 for answers to the following questions, which- if he is who he says he is- should be easy to answer. Unfortunately, a delay in answering could indicate that he's doing more armchair research- and although this information could possibly be found online, I would be fairly impressed if he went to the trouble and was able to do it that way.

Answering correctly to the following questions does not confirm the identity of ULTIMA1- but it does at least put the question aside for the time being... in my mind.

And, if any of the mods are concerned- the information I will be asking for is public- however I will not post it here, only confirm or deny it once ULTIMA1 answers.

Q1) What is the mascot for your towns high school football team?
Hint: C______

Q2) The post office has several wanted individuals posted up on the wall. What is the name of the individual wanted for Terroristic Threats?
Hint: A_____ H______

Q3) What is the address of the person who lives behind you?
Hint: G____ is w______

Q4) What are their initials?

Q5) What is the address of the person who lives to the right of you?

Q6) What are their initials?

Q7) What are the initials of the woman who resides- or used to reside- at your address?
Hint: Not the previous resident.

Of course, I could just make up answers- so anyone who wants to know the correct answers prior to ULTIMA1 posting them, please let me know so that I have some method of publicly confirming this, and I will PM them to you.
Click to expand...

*bump #1* for ULTIMA1
 
Yeah...let's get these answered.

Q1) What is the mascot for your towns high school football team?
Hint: C______

Q2) The post office has several wanted individuals posted up on the wall. What is the name of the individual wanted for Terroristic Threats?
Hint: A_____ H______

Q3) What is the address of the person who lives behind you?
Hint: G____ is w______

Q4) What are their initials?

Q5) What is the address of the person who lives to the right of you?

Q6) What are their initials?

Q7) What are the initials of the woman who resides- or used to reside- at your address?
Hint: Not the previous resident.
 
Gentlemen, in all due respect, Ultima's identity does not matter. Regardless of who he is, his information either stands or falls on its own. If he's genuinely discovered items indicating government malfeasance, then he may be covered under the various "Whistleblower" laws, presuming he's followed the provisions (i.e. seeking internal redress before communicating externally, etc.); I'll leave things to LashL and other legal professionals in the forum to expound on that. But regardles, his information either stands or falls due to its internal merits. Bugging him for personal information is irrelevant to the discussion. What matters is what he's said. And as I've said before, unless it either includes observations and evidence that already exists, or provides an alternate explanation that encompasses these observations and evidence, it doesn't matter who he is, the information is refuted. Either way, his identity is irrelevant to his claims.

Let's deal with his claims on their own merit. I don't care if he's some high schooler or the head of the NSA; the information provided either aids and furthers understanding, or it too severely contradicts established facts to be true. Either way, it's the intrinsic value of the info itself that matters. Not who delivers it.
 
ElMondoHummus said:
Gentlemen, in all due respect, Ultima's identity does not matter. Regardless of who he is, his information either stands or falls on its own. If he's genuinely discovered items indicating government malfeasance, then he may be covered under the various "Whistleblower" laws, presuming he's followed the provisions (i.e. seeking internal redress before communicating externally, etc.); I'll leave things to LashL and other legal professionals in the forum to expound on that. But regardles, his information either stands or falls due to its internal merits. Bugging him for personal information is irrelevant to the discussion. What matters is what he's said. And as I've said before, unless it either includes observations and evidence that already exists, or provides an alternate explanation that encompasses these observations and evidence, it doesn't matter who he is, the information is refuted. Either way, his identity is irrelevant to his claims.

Let's deal with his claims on their own merit. I don't care if he's some high schooler or the head of the NSA; the information provided either aids and furthers understanding, or it too severely contradicts established facts to be true. Either way, it's the intrinsic value of the info itself that matters. Not who delivers it.
Click to expand...

On the contrary- his identity is part of his claim. Without that historical information, the claim can be immediately dismissed.

Take, for example, the situation that will most likely occur: he's going to get back a document that states absolutely nothing. Based on his previous claims of authority- he will state that the "real document" still exists- and this is not it. He will still claim authority.

If we can show that he could not possibly have seen the original document in the first place, then even if this document shows up with some kind of oddity- his claim is still just a shot in the dark.

Don't let him escape from the fact that the majority of this claim is based on the idea that he knows this document exists and states what he claims. The existence of a document is irrelevant- as is the existence of a request for a document.
 
Who he is does not change the fact that he has not presented the evidence. his reasons for not providing the evidence also are irrelevant. The issue here is that without the evidence, they are just empty claims. The more appropriate thing to have done would have been to wait until he had the evidence and then present it.

The fact that he chose not to pretty much sums everything up.
 
Well, Toto, what I was trying to illuminate here was the fact that the weight of the existing evidence already provides quite a hill for Ultima's document to climb. And that determination can be made without any such reliance on who a person is.

You see, I always have problems with the whole argument-by-authority thing here, and it's not merely because it's a logical fallacy. It's because it ultimately does not address the root of any given claim. Ultima's point claim about the legitimacy of the report may indeed stand or fail on his identity, but the larger implication - that there's a previously unknown and unreleased event during UA93's flight involving a fighter and a missile - can be judged by what we already know. If a fighter did indeed lose a missile, then it's irrelevant to the UA93 narrative because there's no indication that jet was hit by a missile, not by the CVR, not from the FDR, and if we trust the crash investigators (I do; Beechnut can elaborate further on this point if he wants), not from the wreckage. If a fighter did indeed shoot a missile at UA93, then again, it's still irrelevant because it obviously didn't hit it. Neither case requires Ultima's identity to judge, because the weight the existing facts already demonstrates what happened.

If hypothetically a very old German man surfaced, and it was eventually proven that he was indeed closely and intimately involved in the Nazi government, I still wouldn't care what his identity was if he claimed there was no systemic eradication of Jewish people. His claim fails on its own merits, not his authority.

Anyway, I know that's a long winded answer, but it gets the point across. Ultima's claims about himself as well as the document he says he's seen, even if they're true can only change what we know if they either agree with the currently existing and verified body of knowledge or explain why we misunderstand the event. So in the end, it doesn't matter to me who he says he is. I work from the body of knowledge and confirmed evidence. His authority or lack thereof can not move me by itself.

-----

Don't take this wrong, Toto, I'm not trying to attack you. Rather, I just don't see questions about his identity being very productive at getting at the truth. Even if it turns out that he's who he says he is, it doesn't change things without the document he claims exists. I understand your line of reasoning, I just fear that it's a spiral into irrelevant minituae, that's all. If he wants to challenge the currently accepted narrative, then he can produce the document for us to judge; any activities prior to that mean nothing in the end.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom