Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[soikins]

So its good story telling to make the disciples to look like dim-witted uncaring cowards. I would disagree.

Now I guess that partly explains why Left Behind series have had such success...
DOC, could you name a couple of good stories where Mary-Sue type character as a protagonist?

 

[FSM]

Listen, I think I can clear this whole thing up in just one post.

DOC, please note, I am the great and powerful FSM. I created the earth from my noodly appendage with the help of some strippers, beer and a midget. You can tell that I'm being honest by looking at my custom title to the left over there.

I am telling you this directly. No need to rely upon scripture or oral storytelling or whatever. (And if I do have to write things down, I prefer pamphlet form for my holy words. Easy to read, easy to carry around, easy to write bootie call phone numbers on if you need to...)

I wanted to let you know that, frankly, I've always been rather amused by the Christian Bible. See, I don't really like to smite people down for not believing in me... so I just let it the whole thing go on and on... yadda yadda yadda... for years and years and I thought it was so foolish, violent and contradictory that it would just fade away in time. It seems to have hung on to the ass of humanity like some kind of aggravating and tenacious dingleberry, though.

Ah, what can you do?

 

[Hokulele]

Strawman -- Solution to what?

Er, solution to the equations introducted by General Relativity. Do you realize that many equations beyond simple algebra can have multiple solutions?

Geisler/Turek said this on page 74 of the book in post #1:

"Meanwhile the Dutch astronomer W. de Sitter had found that General Relativity required the universe to be expanding. And in 1927, the expanding of the universe was actually observed by astronomer E. Hubble..."

And the word I bolded is where Geisler goes wrong. Willem de Sitter's solution suggested that the universe is expanding. Another solution would have the universe contracting. Nowhere does General Relativity require the universe to be expanding.

I noticed you didn't bring in a source, but I'll bring one in. From the article "William de Sitter":

"De Sitter, unlike Einstein, maintained that relativity actually implied that the universe was expanding, theoretical results which were later verified observationally and accepted by Einstein."

Do you know the difference between imply and require?

Word Strawman added in edit.

And as joobz noted, my argument is only a strawman if Geisler has absolutely no understanding of how to solve equations more complex than x + 2 = 5. In which case I am making a strawman in the sense that I am describing reality, where Geisler isn't.

 

[MattC]

This reminds me of a level from Dynasty Warriors!

1) religiously-oriented commentary begins the level
2) battle is joined between two opposing forces
3) the generals of each side make themselves known
4) Hokulele appears on the scene!
5) Pandemonium runs rampant in what were once orderly battle lines!
6) Hokulele reigns supreme!

~ Matt

 

[paximperium]

This reminds me of a level from Dynasty Warriors!

1) religiously-oriented commentary begins the level
2) battle is joined between two opposing forces
3) the generals of each side make themselves known
4) Hokulele appears on the scene!
5) Pandemonium runs rampant in what were once orderly battle lines!
6) Hokulele reigns supreme!

~ Matt

You forgot the very very very bad voice acting and dialogue.

 

[Hokulele]

Sun Shang Xiang is my homegirl.

 

[DOC]

Listen, I think I can clear this whole thing up in just one post.

DOC, please note, I am the great and powerful FSM. I created the earth from my noodly appendage with the help of some strippers, beer and a midget. You can tell that I'm being honest by looking at my custom title to the left over there.

I am telling you this directly. No need to rely upon scripture or oral storytelling or whatever.

FSM do you think anyone will ever die for you like they did for Jesus:

From Wiki's article "List of Christian Martyrs"

Apostolic Age—1st century

* Saint Stephen, Protomartyr, was stoned c. 34 A.D.
* James the Great (Son of Zebedee) was beheaded in 44 A.D.
* Philip the Apostle was crucified in 54 A.D.
* Matthew the Evangelist killed with a halberd in 60 A.D.
* James the Just, beaten to death with a club after being crucified and stoned.
* Matthias was stoned and beheaded.
* Saint Andrew, St. Peter's brother, was crucified.
* Mark was beaten to death.
* Saint Peter, crucified upside-down.
* Apostle Paul, beheaded in Rome.
* Saint Jude was crucified.
* Saint Bartholomew flayed alive and crucified.
* Thomas the Apostle was killed with a spear.
* Luke the Evangelist was hanged.
* Simon the Zealot was crucified in 74 A.D.

(Note: John the Evangelist according to legend was cooked in boiling hot oil but survived. He was the only one of the original twelve Apostles who was not martyred).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_martyrs

And FSM do you think you'll ever have someone like Thomas Jefferson say your moral teachings are the greatest the world has ever known like Jefferson said about the teachings of Jesus.

 

[DOC]

Er, solution to the equations introducted by General Relativity. Do you realize that many equations beyond simple algebra can have multiple solutions?




And the word I bolded is where Geisler goes wrong. Willem de Sitter's solution suggested that the universe is expanding. Another solution would have the universe contracting. Nowhere does General Relativity require the universe to be expanding.




Do you know the difference between imply and require?




And as joobz noted, my argument is only a strawman if Geisler has absolutely no understanding of how to solve equations more complex than x + 2 = 5. In which case I am making a strawman in the sense that I am describing reality, where Geisler isn't.

Another post with no sources.

 

[DOC]

Notice how the biography says "implied" and Geisler says "required". Static solutions are possible -- mathematically. Such a solution is likely to become dynamic. I don't know who proved that. You can read about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant

If static solutions are possible why did Einstein feel the need to add a constant (aka fudge factor). A decision he later said was the greatest regret of his career.

 

[FireGarden]

ignore this post

 

[Darat]

Er DOC and others look at the thread title - it gives you a clue as to what this thread is meant to be discussing.

Although it would seem that the 2nd law of thermodynamics applies to the DOC's threads so they all end up being a chaotic mishmash of all previous threads consider this Mod Box an injection of energy that can locally reverse the direction of entropy!

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[Safe-Keeper]

FSM do you think anyone will ever die for you like they did for Jesus:

With every single post you make me more and more certain that you are a troll. Then I realize that there are people who actually do think this way.

But then I see things like this:

Another post with no sources.

...and realize that you do little but bring up the same fallacies and nonsense over and over and over again, and singlehandedly keep old dead threads alive when they were defeated before Post 5...

...and... then I'm just not sure anymore.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

From Wiki's article "List of Christian Martyrs"

Aaaand we're back at page 1 .

DOC, how did you manage to miss the posts that point out the martyrs of other religions? Does the fact that the suicide bombers of 9/11 chose to die for their faith mean that it's fundamentalist Islam's view of Abrahamic religion that's true?

 

[FireGarden]

If static solutions are possible why did Einstein feel the need to add a constant (aka fudge factor). A decision he later said was the greatest regret of his career.

I take it you don't know about integration -- the opposite of differentiation. Here's wiki on the constant of integration:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_of_integration

Many equations have more than one solution.

Suppose you want to solve 3x-2y=1

You can have x=y=1

In fact, every time x is an odd number, you will have a solution -- because it will be one more than an even number (2y is always even)

x=3, y=4
x=5, y=7
x=7, y=10
etc

For different reasons, the maths of GR allows more than one solution. All equal from the mathematical perspective. Which solution you choose has to be decided by somthing other than maths.

eg: if I add another condition on x and y, say:
x+y = 12

Then all but one solution is removed from the above list.

Einstein saw that his solution implied the universe had to be expanding or contracting. He added the cosmological constant so that he could have the universe match with current understanding (dogma). That is why he says he made a mistake. It was not a algebraic error. He could have predicted a non-static universe. That would have been quite something. But he let Friedmann and the like take that credit. He tried to avoid that by pointing out an error Friedmann had made, but in that case it was Einstein who had made an algebraic error.

I'm not aware of Einstein turning down his own non-static solution because of a mathematical error. But even if he did: The solution he published is mathematically correct -- including the cosmological constant, which has been resurrected today to explain the increasing rate of expansion.

btw,
Here is yet another soltuion which is mathematically correct but is ruled out by not describing the universe as we see it.

 

[Darat]

As Admin: Folks don't forget to read my Mod Box warning - keep "on-topic"!

 

[FireGarden]

Er DOC and others look at the thread title - it gives you a clue as to what this thread is meant to be discussing.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

Part of discussing the evidence referred to in the thread title is assessing the reliability of the source. Especially since people have asked what the other 5 items of evidence are and been answered with "get the book". So debating the worth of the source seems, to me, to be on topic.

If I'm wrong, then could you please split the thread and put the parts about Einstein's "fudge factor" in the science forum?

 

[FireGarden]

As Admin: Folks don't forget to read my Mod Box warning - keep "on-topic"!

I'm trying.
You posted while I was writing my above post. It's too dear to delete!

 

[DOC]

With every single post you make me more and more certain that you are a troll. Then I realize that there are people who actually do think this way..

I find it strange that you have no problem with the FSM's post, but then attack my informative response to it.

 

[FSM]

FSM do you think anyone will ever die for you like they did for Jesus:

From Wiki's article "List of Christian Martyrs"

...

* buncha dead guys

(Note: John the Evangelist according to legend was cooked in boiling hot oil but survived. He was the only one of the original twelve Apostles who was not martyred)...

No offense, DOC, but those dudes died because of some ridiculous story. Pointless, violent, wasteful deaths.

Me?

I'd rather people LIVE for me.

Also, I'd like people to eat Italian more often. You think this Wall Street thing is bad for you guys right now? Imagine what it was like for me when this blasphemous "no-carb, low-carb" dieting crap started up. Low carb... my ass.
This so called "Financial Crisis" is nothing compared to the Pasta Crisis of 2000.

(Note: John the Evangelist according to legend was cooked in boiling hot oil but survived. He was the only one of the original twelve Apostles who was not martyred).

...

Do you think John smelled like fried chicken for the rest of his life? That's just gross, man.

Anyone who fries anybody else, in my book, is just bad. Bad bad bad.

...

And FSM do you think you'll ever have someone like Thomas Jefferson say your moral teachings are the greatest the world has ever known like Jefferson said about the teachings of Jesus.

Thomas Jefferson was a brilliant, deeply flawed punk. Only punks knock up a slave after explaining that the black race was inferior to the white race. So his opinion about morals... eh...

I much prefer to think that his acceptance and advocacy of the separation of church and state is one of the greatest moral teachings that the world has ever known.

 

[FSM]

I am probably off topic as well and rightfully deserve to be chastized.


ETA: Darat, please don't fry me in oil.

ETA2: And if you do, please add a little cayenne, maybe some garlic...

ETA3: Wow, how gross is it that I'm now hungry?