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Russia invades Georgia

Matteo Martini said:
Do not make me laugh..
You got your ass kicked in Iraq.
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Uh, no we didn't. There's a reason that most of the terrorist violence in Iraq is directed against Iraqis and not Americans: US troops are hard targets, and attacking them gets terrorists killed much more often than attacking civilians. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention, but we're winning, not losing.

You failed to stop Iran making thir nuclear program.
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That might end up being the case, but they aren't done yet.

The economy of China is growing 10% and yours is growing 2% and they own a good part of your debt.
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We've been over this before, and you revealed your cluelessness last time. They won't be able to keep that growth rate up, and they can't really do much with the treasuries they own.

And you were not even able to catch Osama Bin Laden.
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Darth said we're the leader, not that we're omnipotent. You've really got your blinkers on, though. Whether or not the US should be the leader of the free world, whether or not we're doing a good job at it, that's still the position we're in. It's amusing to see how desperately you struggle to deny that reality because you don't like it.
 
Ziggurat said:
Uh, no we didn't. There's a reason that most of the terrorist violence in Iraq is directed against Iraqis and not Americans: US troops are hard targets, and attacking them gets terrorists killed much more often than attacking civilians. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention, but we're winning, not losing.
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Please: note that there are strong images in this video


Ziggurat said:
That might end up being the case, but they aren't done yet.
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The point is that the US is not capable to stop their program

Ziggurat said:
We've been over this before, and you revealed your cluelessness last time. They won't be able to keep that growth rate up, and they can't really do much with the treasuries they own.
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Ooooohh!!
OK

Ziggurat said:
Darth said we're the leader, not that we're omnipotent. [..]
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For being the leaders, you got your ass kicked quite a few times, recently
 
Matteo Martini said:
But the invasion of Iraq (as long as a long list of other nations) was not an aggression?
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Call it what you want. I'm not arguing against that word. But I note you remain silent on the issue of what to actually do about Darfur, and blinded by your biases to the inconsistencies in your position. The only constant is your blame America attitude. When it suits your argument, America is strong, when it does not, America is weak. When it suits your argument, America interferes too much, and when it doesn't, America doesn't do enough. But China, a communist dictatorship? Well, you say you don't like them, and yet, in every comparison between us and China that you make, they come out favorably. You're a tool, Matteo. A useful idiot.
 
Ziggurat said:
Call it what you want. I'm not arguing against that word. But I note you remain silent on the issue of what to actually do about Darfur, and blinded by your biases to the inconsistencies in your position. The only constant is your blame America attitude. When it suits your argument, America is strong, when it does not, America is weak. When it suits your argument, America interferes too much, and when it doesn't, America doesn't do enough. But China, a communist dictatorship? Well, you say you don't like them, and yet, in every comparison between us and China that you make, they come out favorably.
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That because I try to show the bad points of the US.
There are many good points in the US society I am aware of, I am fully aware.
What I find it wrong, is that American people (you included) see only them, while they keep their eyes closed to the bad things America does.
This is why I point at those things

Ziggurat said:
You're a tool, Matteo. A useful idiot.
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Keep insulting, I will not report you to a moderator as I do not care
 
Matteo Martini said:
The Soviet Union claimed that they were the leader of the free world and America was the leader of the capitalist world
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And what were you trying to say with that? Those bits don't fit together.
Do not make me laugh.. You got your ass kicked in Iraq.
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The Iraqi army would tend to disagree with you.
You failed to stop Iran making thir nuclear program.
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That game is still in play, but I don't see Iran stopping anymore than Pakistan did. The geni has been out of the bottle for a good, long while. I don't see it as a problem. I'd like to remind you, yet again, that I am not President Bush. Please remember that when addressing me.
The economy of China is growing 10% and yours is growing 2% and they own a good part of your debt.
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In other news, grapes grow on vines. Non sequitur noted.
And you were not even able to catch Osama Bin Laden.
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And? Are you trying to make a point? Some of us, unlike you apparently, are aware of how the world actually works, and the difficulties in getting anything done.

Check your own back yard, sport, before you go spouting off.

@ Capel: Why then, if America isn't still a leader in this world, do we still see, on this forum even, calls for America to "do something" about Darfur, or whatever?

DR
 
Matteo Martini said:
That because I try to show the bad points of the US.
There are many good points in the US society I am aware of, I am fully aware.
What I find it wrong, is that American people (you included) see only them, while they keep their eyes closed to the bad things America does.
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No, Matteo. I don't agree with you about what the US's faults are. You assume wrongly that this means that I think the US is faultless. I bet you weren't even aware of the logical leap you made. Or perhaps you are, and made it anyways. So you're either clueless or dishonest. I'm betting on the former, though.
 
Matteo Martini said:
There is no place as "Padania".
Hokaido is Hokkaido
France, not French, has Corsica

And, you should tell all this to Geni
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Are you sure you're not being childish in your contrarianism incorrect? He said "and the French have", not "and French have". Now if you want to suggest deficiencies in his stylistic writing decisions, that's another thing.

Also playing a simple contrarian is rather juvenile. Please relegate that to the bottom 98% of the chat boards online, not here.
 
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gtc said:
Remember kiddies: No one can call you an anti-semite if you claim that 'Christian Zionists' control the US government.
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I hate to break it to you, gtc, but Christians who support the Zionist movement are alive and well in the US. A number of Protestant strains among evangelicals and pentacostals are most vocal in their identification with Israel, and are very pro Israel. Not Semites, nope.

Likewise, pro Zionist Christians in England were at least somewhat influential in the nineteenth century is providing support to the decisions made in Whitehall to support the Zionist move to the Holy Land.

Not a Semite in the bunch.

What is going on here is that a buncha WASPS want/wanted to see that shining city on the hill return to Jerusalem.

And did those feet
In ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green . . .

DR
 
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Well, back to the topic, the US Navy has a warship docked in a Georgia port:
A U.S. Navy warship carrying humanitarian aid anchored at the Georgian port of Batumi on Sunday, sending a strong signal of support to an embattled ally as Russian forces built up around two separatist regions.
Ahead of the USS McFaul's arrival, a top Russian general suggested that the presence of U.S. and other NATO ships in the Black Sea would worsen tensions already at a post-Cold War low.
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But what do they intend to do about it?

The guided missile destroyer USS McFaul, loaded with some 80 pallets containing about 55 tons of humanitarian aid, is the first of five American ships scheduled to arrive this week, according to the U.S. Embassy. The aid includes baby food, diapers, bottled water, and milk.
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So much for the logistics of getting US materiel to Georgia!

Sure, this is a humanitarian mission but it also sends a strong signal to Russia in case they get second thoughts and decide to stay a little bit longer.
 
WildCat said:
Well, back to the topic, the US Navy has a warship docked in a Georgia port:

But what do they intend to do about it?


So much for the logistics of getting US materiel to Georgia!
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55 tons is a drop in the bucket, but I for one am pleased to see the sailors out there doin' the good deeds. Well done, shipmates. :)

I wonder if the other ships might be something a bit larger and rounder, read supply type ships, than a DDG. An AOE might be nice, or LMSR.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=151006&bolum=102

Huh? Mount Whitney? Uh, that used to be a C2 ship. Is this a multinational or unilateral humanitarian mission?
He stated that the McFaul and the Dallas were expected to arrive in Georgia next week and the Mount Whitney around the end of the month. A Polish ship also passed through the Turkish Straits yesterday, but Turkish diplomatic sources emphasized that the ship was headed to the Black Sea to take part in a NATO task mission that sources said had been planned months ago.
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"From the Russian point of view … the usefulness of this operation is extremely dubious," Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the Russian military's General Staff was quoted by Reuters as saying when asked about the US Navy mission to deliver aid to Georgia.

The ships are part of a humanitarian mission, but observers say it is also a message of military deterrence by the United States to Russia. The US military had already begun delivering relief supplies by air a week ago.
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Uh, this isn't making me smile. They are sending the flag ship of the US Sixth Fleet into the Black Sea.
Mt Whitney.jpg jennifer-love-hewitt-oscar-cleavage-02.jpg
Its escort, the USS Hewitt, has not been seen pass through the straits. As to the USS Dallas, last time I checked, the USS Dallas is SSN-700, which is a Los Angeles class submarine. WTF?

(Personal anecdote: About 25 years ago, Mount Whitney was flagship of the US Second Fleet, based on the Atlantic coast. We used to call it the "Mount Scrutiny" thanks to all of the "helpful advice" the flag staff used to provide to the ships at sea. :p )

DR
 
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WildCat said:
Sure, this is a humanitarian mission but it also sends a strong signal to Russia in case they get second thoughts and decide to stay a little bit longer.
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The Russians original thought seems to have been to stay longer. Since that's what they're doing.

Turkey has allowed passage to US warships because they're engaged in a purely humanitarian mission, not a warlike one. The Montreaux Convention applies, and unless the US Navy is prepared to force the Dardanelles they are not going to get a war-fighting fleet into the Black Sea. Turkey and Russia have a long history, much of it unhappy for the Turks, and the Turks will have to live with the Russians after the US withdraws.

The Turks woudn't countenance it, and more than half of NATO would back them up, diplomatically.
 
CapelDodger said:
The Russians original thought seems to have been to stay longer. Since that's what they're doing.

Turkey has allowed passage to US warships because they're engaged in a purely humanitarian mission, not a warlike one. The Montreaux Convention applies, and unless the US Navy is prepared to force the Dardanelles they are not going to get a war-fighting fleet into the Black Sea. Turkey and Russia have a long history, much of it unhappy for the Turks, and the Turks will have to live with the Russians after the US withdraws.

The Turks woudn't countenance it, and more than half of NATO would back them up, diplomatically.
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And yet the Russians are not at all pleased with this development. This mission surely represents a message to the Russians, we didn't send cruise ships or cargo ships into the Black Sea to haul the humanitarian aid.
 
WildCat said:
But what do they intend to do about it?
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Observe it.

So much for the logistics of getting US materiel to Georgia!
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It's a surface ship. Russia would have few problems into sending it to the bottem if it chose. Naval operations in the area are only really an option for Russia and with modern anti-ship weaponry even that is pretty marginal.
 
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