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On the Truth Movement and Irreducible Delusion

R.Mackey

Philosopher
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
7,854
The following multi-part post is my longest post ever on the JREF Forums. As this is an original work it does not violate Rule 4 guidelines to the best of my understanding. But coming from me, this is no idle threat.

For those who disapprove of wordy Forum posts, or those who live life three steps at a time, I respect your aversion and offer the following concise summary:

Conspiracy theories in general and 9/11 conspiracies in particular are not logical, so debating with folks who believe in them is usually pointless and leads to a lot of yelling. It's better to just find the root mistake, point it out for everyone, and let it go. Humans are simply not logical creatures.​

If you disagree with the above sentiment, I invite you to consider my argument in depth, presented below. Thank you for your consideration.
 
Abstract

In this whitepaper the author defines and applies the idea of Irreducible Delusion, which is the concept of a central element of illogic underlying many conspiracy theorist belief structures, and an artifact demonstrably present in the statements of many leaders and members of the 9/11 Truth Movement. The concept is expanded to include specific tests, classifications, and relationships to established logical fallacies. A number of illustrative examples are included, encompassing leading figures of the Truth Movement as well as members more familiar to the JREF Forums. Finally, the author presents a recommendation for future debate and interaction with the Truth Movement.

Author’s Note

Many examples used in this analysis are taken from the JREF Forum and as such reflect upon members thereof, including members in good standing. The author has taken care to address only posts themselves, and while excerpts of those posts are provided in context and may be verified with little effort, links and identities of those posters are deliberately expunged from this whitepaper in a conscious effort to avoid the perception of personal attacks. However, as these identities can be reconstructed, respondents are reminded to observe their Membership Agreements.

Introduction

The Truth Movement in general is experiencing a dramatic contraction, as evinced by the declining Internet audience, redirection and discontinuation of prominent websites, and the lack of new material produced by its members, whose numbers were greatly exaggerated to begin with. The only apparent progress in the current calendar year is the anomalous paper by Dr. Steven Jones et al., but upon closer inspection, even this contains no useful results, and was misrepresented by its authors from the outset. Yet despite the increasingly dismal performance, demonstrably limited appeal, and comprehensive stagnation of the Truth Movement, contention on the Internet (and here at the JREF Forum) continues unabated.

What is needed to break the stalemate is twofold: First, a reappraisal of our goals as participants in the debate; and second, a rational analysis of beliefs among the remaining members of the Truth Movement. Rather than persist, in the face of a determined argumentum ad nauseum, we need to establish a more productive exit strategy.

Towards this end, the author has presented abstracted analyses of the debate, including the inflationary model of conspiracy theories, as well as a quantitative estimation approach to the value any specific argument. Many other posters have speculated about underlying social causes of Truth Movement behavior, including mental illness and recreational drug use; however, the author discourages these viewpoints on both logical and practical grounds. In brief, it is impossible for even professionals to provide a sound medical opinion over the Internet, and even if a correlation can be demonstrated through statistics, we cannot reasonably distinguish cause, effect, and coincidence. Additionally, there are individuals who support other outrageous conspiracy theories yet are active in opposing the Truth Movement, and there are previous members who have left the Truth Movement and now appear, for all intents and purposes, completely normal.

As explored in a recent thread, objective science is ill-suited to answer basic questions of “why,” particularly where human motivation is concerned. However, we can recognize and categorize the behavior itself. This in turn can be applied on a case-by-case basis, and can provide an objective recommendation on how to proceed.

Comparison to Formal Representations of Knowledge

In scientific investigation of reasoning processes, such as reasoning algorithms for artificial intelligence and automated deduction, one encounters the notion of permutable and non-permutable truths. This terminology denotes facts known at a given time when the overall state of the observed system is only partially known. Permutable truths are facts that have a conditional meaning, depending on what other facts also turn out to be true, while non-permutable truths are facts whose meaning is fixed. For instance, if I am surprised to find my car is no longer where I left it, the fact that my car is missing is a non-permutable truth, whereas my conclusion that it has been stolen is a permutable truth. The former will never change regardless of what new information arrives, whereas the latter could be modified if I learn, for instance, that my wife borrowed it without telling me. The evolution of our state estimate, i.e. keeping track of our current estimate of “truth,” is handled by a logical process such as a Truth Maintenance System.

If a Truth Maintenance System is given a non-permutable truth that is actually false, it typically arrives at a contradiction with other, conflicting information, forcing a re-evaluation of the facts themselves. However, it is not uncommon for the system to instead arrive at a more detailed, yet completely false, state estimate after propagating the false information through its logical rules and embellishing with other information. If the false information is strong enough, or if the system’s threshold of confidence is sufficiently relaxed, then no amount of valid information will isolate or overwhelm the false information it stores. The conclusions derived using the false information are generally not reconcilable, often not even recognizable, compared to a similar analysis using correct information. This conflict is similar to what one observes in ongoing Internet debates with the Truth Movement.

Regarding the debate, the original mandate of respondents to the Truth Movement -- namely that of investigation -- is no longer compelling, for the simple reason that it appears no investigation remains to be done. This can be verified by the lack of need, confusion of method, and absence of significant popular support for reinvestigation. What questions remain, for example the precise cause and lessons of World Trade Center Seven’s collapse, are of a highly technical nature and ill suited to Internet discussion among casual, non-expert observers.

The discussion has matured to the point that there are now a number of “debunkers,” a remnant of the original debate focused on opposing the Truth Movement, whose goals include general education and facilitating informed decisions by those who are still undecided on the issue. Yet at this late stage, even the revised goals are changing. The matter of education has been discharged, with numerous sources of informal information, informal and formal scientific papers, books reporting on private investigations, and even television productions such as those from The History Channel and the BBC, all readily available. With respect to undecided parties, the decline of the Truth Movement demonstrates conclusively that undecided readers are few in number or already choosing not to side with the Truth Movement. What is left, then, is only direct debate between the “debunkers” and the Truth Movement itself. This debate is adversarial and highly contentious simply because the goals are not applicable to the Truth Movement. They are neither seeking education, nor are they undecided, and naturally this leads to a fundamental incompatibility.

The conflict between competing world views, viz. the “debunkers” versus the Truth Movement, can generally be isolated to an Irreducible Delusion – a logical paradox which lies at the heart of the disagreement. The Irreducible Delusion is the logical opposite of a non-permutable truth in our TMS model above: It represents a “fact” that is false, and by virtue of its falsity propagates through an entire belief structure. It therefore serves as the foundation upon which a larger world view, often highly detailed, progressively emerges (through mechanisms such as inflation, noted even by the press). However, it is the Irreducible Delusion itself, and not the more visible world view, that requires correction, even though the world view – the sum of consequences of the mistaken belief – is a much more attractive target and the subject of the overwhelming majority of attention.

As a result, these discussions are almost always fruitless: The incorrect party cannot convince the correct party, as her logic is fatally flawed; and the correct party cannot convince the incorrect party, as her argument obliquely addresses the underlying problem, which is so fundamental that the incorrect party is loath to relinquish it in the first place. With a better understanding of the problem, this process can be avoided.
 
Part II

Recognizing and Classifying Irreducible Delusion

An Irreducible Delusion has two defining characteristics. First, as the name implies, it is irreducible, meaning that it is a belief that stands on its own and is not dependent on any other information; and it is a delusion, or in other words a belief that is demonstrably false or untenable. It is important, though often difficult, to isolate the Irreducible Belief from other, consequential beliefs. When it is found, it is usually surprisingly simple. It also may be recognized based on typical responses to criticism, which include the following:
  • Refusal to change the belief at any cost, leading to increasingly improbable excuses;
  • Demands for a disproof, rather than providing any evidence;
  • Dogged avoidance of direct discussion, either through distraction or total refusal to give debate; and
  • Dropping discussion of the belief altogether, in seeming acquiescence of superior logic, only to bring it up again unchanged at a later date.

The Irreducible Delusion is fundamentally an example of the rare existential fallacy, and the consequences thereof constitute (at best) a vacuous truth. In other words, were the Irreducible Delusion actually a true fact, the logical consequences would be plausible, but no logic based upon a false premise is ever valid. The Irreducible Delusion can also be classified according to the strength of its incorrectness. The author introduces the following three categories as a suggested notation:

Strong Delusion: Belief that is directly contradicted by unambiguous fact.
The Strong Delusion is, in short, a factual error. This is often supported by argument to authority and reliance on quote-mining, out-of-date, or retracted information in an attempt to justify the error. A common example is ”No Aircraft Hit the Pentagon,” which is a Strong Delusion because it is directly contradicted by extensive physical evidence.​
Weak Delusion: Belief that is categorically or indirectly contradicted, but requires reasoning in order to refute.
The Weak Delusion is an error of reasoning that may proceed from facts that are correct. It is usually justified through hasty generalization, affirming the consequent, or equivocation. An example is ”Bombs Exploded in the WTC Basements” – there is no hard data from the basements to flatly contradict this belief, rather one must reason based on secondary indicators that rule out any detonation in favor of deflagration. The error in this example is one of affirming the consequent, viz. failure to recognize that not all explosions are caused by bombs.​
Conditional Delusion: Belief that is totally unsupported, and thus impossible or unnecessary to directly refute.
This third class is related to sophistry, and typically manifests as an argument from ignorance. This class is common because the Truth Movement often focuses on the absence of evidence it arbitrarily decides is important, rather than addressing actual evidence. It is also generally followed by a misplaced burden of proof or call to perfection. ”Aircraft were never identified by their component serial numbers” is an example of Conditional Delusion – while vaguely possible, there is no way to prove, and indeed no reason to even suspect, that such checking was never performed. Furthermore, there are numerous other means of unambiguous identification, so without somehow invalidating this other evidence this oversight would have no practical impact even if it was true. As a result, for this claim to be relevant, it must be true, and it is conditional on several unsupported assumptions.​

The three classes above are intended to focus our analysis, thereby addressing the Irreducible Delusion as directly and succinctly as possible. The reader will note, ironically, that the stronger Delusions are actually easier to dispatch. This is due to better definition of the stronger cases, therefore allowing a concise rebuttal with fewer distractions and less development of the opposing argument. In the following section, we will provide a number of illustrations to further clarify the process.

Irreducible Delusion in the Truth Movement

David Ray Griffin

Dr. Griffin presents a remarkable example of the Irreducible Delusion at work in the introduction to his book Debunking 9/11 Debunking. In the opening pages, he presents his “Own Story,” which includes the following excerpts:

David Ray Griffin said:
He directed me to some 9/11 websites, but I did not find them convincing. I do not know if they were bad sites or whether I looked at their evidence with less than a 30-percent open mind. In any case, I went back to working on American imperialism, assuming 9/11 not to be an instance thereof.

My response was quite different, however, a few months later when another colleague sent … an abbreviated version of Paul Thompson’s massive 9/11 timeline. Although this timeline was drawn entirely from mainstream sources, it contained hundreds of stories that contradicted one or another aspect of the official account of 9/11. …

Realizing that this conclusion, if correct, was extremely important – by then the Bush administration had used 9/11 as a basis for attacking Iraq as well as Afghanistan – I wrote The New Pearl Harbor, summarizing the evidence that had been gathered by members of the 9/11 truth movement who had opened their minds to it long before I had.

The reasoning process above illustrates the effect of Irreducible Delusion. Originally, the evidence of the Truth Movement was not “convincing” to Dr. Griffin; however, upon receiving the critical piece of information from Paul Thompson, his entire world view apparently changed, and he then embraced their interpretations. This is an example of the Conditional Irreducible Delusion, in that it is conditional on a great many facts – those alleged by Mr. Thompson – being valid. However, the “Terror Timeline” in question is little more than a remarkable collection of mined media quotes, all of them early and inaccurate or taken out of context, as has been demonstrated repeatedly.

Dr. Griffin has since developed secondary Irreducible Delusions. An example is his belief that telephone calls from the highjacked aircraft must be faked, originally justified by the incorrect claim that Airfones were disabled at the time. Upon being corrected, this was amended to a similarly incorrect claim that the official explanation was altered, which implies a cover-up, and therefore the calls are again fake. This is a Weak Irreducible Delusion, remarkable because even though he learned and even acknowledged that his reasoning for the belief was false, the belief itself persisted until another excuse could be found. The example also illustrates the importance of correctly identifying the underlying belief. Had we confused this with the Strong Irreducible Delusion of factual error, we would instead be diverted into a discussion of the facts (such as the Airfones). As the evolution of his belief demonstrates, correcting his facts has no direct impact on the belief itself.

Steven Jones

Dr. Steven Jones has demonstrated his own Irreducible Delusion over the past few years, in this case on the feasibility and likelihood of thermite as the cause of the World Trade Center collapses. Nearly all of his claimed evidence for thermite is wholly inconclusive, such as a single flow of sparks or molten material seen outside WTC 2 that he is judging solely on color, or his belief that thermite (and only thermite) explains the high temperatures for weeks afterwards (which is directly refuted, as anything set off at the time of collapse would have cooled). A seemingly more definitive source of evidence would be the chemical remains – at least this can be quantified.

Oddly enough, Dr. Jones keeps changing his claim as the residue fails to live up to his expectations. His initial claim was for thermite. This was later revised to “thermite with sulfur added” to aid in eutectic melting of steel. Still later, he changed his idea to “thermate,” a specific compound containing a small amount of sulfur (too small to have any practical impact on eutectic melting) and a high percentage of barium nitrate (leaving barium oxide after reacting). However, in Dr. Jones’s version, the “thermate” actually contained not only barium, but zinc, and potentially other metals as well – simply because none of the trace elements in his analyses was in any way dominant. The only solution, then, was to include all of them:

Dr. Steven Jones said:
Given the mix of trace metals present in anomalously high concentrations in the WTC dust such as zinc, copper and manganese and barium, and the formation of iron-aluminum-rich spherules, I have argued that significant aluminothermic reactions occurred, with likely ingredients to include powders of aluminum, iron oxide, copper oxide, zinc nitrate, sulfur, and potassium permanganate. We are learning more by studying the iron-rich spheres found in the WTC dust.
Source
Dr. Jones’s latest result, however, comes up with a completely different listing of chemicals – this time it merely contains iron, aluminum, and sulfur, with traces of calcium and silicon. None of these elements raises any interest at all. Nonetheless, Dr. Jones still hedges his previous claims by stating:
Dr. Steven Jones said:
In both samples, elements besides iron are often present in the spheres which yield chemical signatures distinct from that of structural steel (such as Al, Si, Cu, K, S; see Figs. 3 and 4). These chemical signatures provide additional evidence that the spheres did not result from steel-cutting operations during clean-up.
What this suggests instead is that sample contamination, and not a conspiracy, is at work here. The data do not appear to be repeatable. Nonetheless, no matter what signature Dr. Jones finds, it still leads him to thermite.

While the elemental composition of the dust in total has been better explained by formal papers as well as genuine common sense, it also bears pointing out that Dr. Jones’s thermite hypothesis, in any level of trim, has been criticized effectively by even the least credible of other 9/11 conspiracy theorists. While the author finds Dr. Judy Wood’s hypotheses equally fantastic and unsupported, and her facts regarding degree of pulverization etc. are not all correct, he nonetheless must agree with many of her criticisms, notably Section II of the linked article above.

Dr. Jones therefore exhibits a particularly powerful Weak Irreducible Delusion. The facts in play – the flow of material from the 80th floor and hot debris during cleanup, chemical species in dust samples, even iron microspheres – are not in dispute. It is his reasoning process, in which all roads lead to thermite, that is irreducibly delusional. The facts all have much simpler explanations.

Richard Gage

Richard Gage, as founder of the Internet group Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (or simply AE911T), cites Dr. Griffin and Dr. Jones in his talks. Interestingly, however, his mission statement involves a different conclusion than Dr. Jones, despite his being swayed, in theory, by the same evidence and the same reasoning process:
Richard Gage said:
We call upon Congress for a truly independent investigation with subpoena power. We believe that there may be sufficient evidence to conclude that the World Trade Center buildings #1 (North Tower), #2 (South Tower), and #7 (the 47 story high-rise across Vessey St.) were destroyed not by jet impact and fires but by controlled demolition with explosives.
Source (Emphasis in original)

Dr. Jones, of course, does not call for “controlled demolition with explosives,” but instead insists on thermite, and more specifically on melting. Melting requires heat transfer rather than impulse, which takes time, and is therefore totally inconsistent with explosions of any kind which would scatter the reacted thermite, not to mention the sulfur that Dr. Jones postulates was needed to assist. Mr. Gage betrays his own confusion when he attempts to reconcile the two positions, as he did in the following excerpt from a radio interview:
Richard Gage said:
Well that's why they would have used thermite, which is a more silent, um, thermate, which is a special form of thermite with added sulfur, because obviously you wouldn't want a whole bunch of explosions to be heard, even though they were, it's not a perfect science. They have a hundred and eighteen witnesses just from those who were recorded in the oral histories.

The above self-contradictions are clear signs that Irreducible Delusion is at work. This is further confirmed by an analysis of Mr. Gage’s presentation, and how the case for “controlled demolition with explosives” has evolved over time. Joseph Nobles has documented this progression diligently, and here the author briefly reviews observations from his excellent summary:
  • Originally proposed a list of “typical features” for controlled demolition, but applied a slightly different list to WTC 1 and 2 versus WTC 7
  • Added brand new features in the second revision, viz. “iron microspheres” and “lateral expulsion,” and removed “all columns fail at once,” without explaining why this differs from the original list
  • Admitted prior to the third revision that “squibs” are not, in fact, seen in the WTC collapses -- yet rather than explaining the conflict with his list of features, he instead changes the list itself to dispose of “squibs” entirely
  • In the fourth revision, drops the claim that ”Fires cannot create even ONE of these features,” i.e. backtracks on the earlier position that these features are sufficient to prove a controlled demolition
  • Finally, backtracking from the “pools of molten iron” claim, as this has never been seen in any controlled demolition before, as well as softening the claim still further to state that these features only “suggest” explosives were used
As with Dr. Jones, Mr. Gage’s fixation on destruction by explosives is a Weak Irreducible Delusion, in that it shows a clear yet inescapable failure of reasoning. The two cases are different in that Dr. Jones occasionally proceeds from actual data (i.e. his dust samples) but necessarily implies a hasty generalization fallacy, by insisting his poorly sourced samples are representative of the WTC Towers at a specific time, rather than potentially coming from other sources. Mr. Gage, in contrast, rather than focusing on microscopic facts attempts to treat broad categories of behavior, and in doing so commits assuming the consequent as well as simple errors, some of which he has admitted to himself. The mutability of his argument demonstrates its logical flaws, yet he remains trapped by his preconceived conclusion.

The Journal of Nine Eleven Studies

The Truth Movement also occasionally gives us a clear example of a shared Irreducible Delusion, or a delusion common to a large group of individuals that would otherwise have marked differences, as in the two preceding cases. Perhaps the clearest example is the Journal of Nine Eleven Studies, organized by Dr. Jones, Kevin Ryan, and others. The Journal’s mission statement includes the following:
JONES said:
Our mission in the past has been to provide an outlet for evidence-based research into the events of 9/11 that might not otherwise have been published, due to the resistance that many established journals and other institutions have displayed toward this topic. The intention was to provide a rapid acceptance process with full peer review. That has been achieved.
Source

The implication of the Journal is three-fold:
  1. Scientific research is of little value without peer-review
  2. Ordinary journals are likely to reject research that supports the Truth Movement
  3. The Journal is capable of bestowing “peer-reviewed” status, without being burdened by institutional bias against the Truth Movement
There is, of course, a logical inconsistency in the mission statement itself – if ordinary peer-review is necessarily biased, why is it held in esteem? The reason, the author proposes, is because of Irreducible Delusion: The organizers and contributors to the Journal are under the delusion that it is the process, and not the content, that determines quality of research.

The error in this thinking is easily seen in the articles themselves. Peer-review exists primarily to detect and prevent errors or incorrect research from being published. While this process is far from perfect, and numerous flawed papers exist in published literature, often even a wrong paper is valuable – providing useful data while only lacking in analysis, stimulating new thought and new hypotheses, and so on – rarely is there a publication with glaring omissions. Such is, however, not the case of the Journal of Nine Eleven Studies, of which there are numerous examples of complete refutations, many even from non-experts, and some even from the Truth Movement itself. There are even refutations of the Journal in its own letters, as well as abundant cases of revision after initial acceptance. It is also straightforward to establish that a huge proportion of the Journal articles originate from the organizers themselves, which suggests a simple explanation for its poor quality.

Despite these obvious signs of trouble, the Journal has recently suspended its original call for papers, ironically declaring that its current contents are so sound that any challenge is inconceivable:
JONES said:
It is now our belief that the case for falsity of the official explanation is so well established and demonstrated by papers in this Journal that there is little to be gained from accepting more papers here. Instead we encourage all potential contributors to prepare papers suitable for the more established journals in which scientists might more readily place their trust.
Source

Besides the obvious conflict between this statement and the actual quality of the Journal’s articles, the author also notes that closure of the Journal happens to conveniently block a new submission that challenges many of its previous conclusions. This, however, may be mere coincidence.

This is an example of Conditional Irreducible Delusion. Many in the Truth Movement, by placing their trust in the Journal, are under the delusion that “peer-review” (even of the most ineffective kind as practiced here) is the single defining characteristic of good science, and focus on this regardless of underlying facts or reasoning. Those involved demonstrate much more interest in “peer-review” than in other features, such as whether or not what is being claimed is correct, or is even coherent. And just like the other Irreducible Delusions, refuting the peripheral assertions – in this case, the papers themselves -- has had absolutely no effect. The Delusion persists, on its own, even after the Journal has apparently outlived its usefulness.
 
Part III

Irreducible Delusion on the JREF Forum

All of the examples given above appear with frequency on the JREF Forum, which is unsurprising given that may positions taken therein are simply echoes of statements make by leading Truth Movement figures. Nonetheless, as the Irreducible Delusion is a basis rather than a conclusion, there are numerous variations depending on the individual. Reprinted below are a few concise examples found on the Forum, again with the names of the protagonists removed to avoid personal attack.

Was there really bowing in the WTC Towers?

Claimant said:
Another test would be to challenge NIST, or anyone else for that matter, to show the inward buckling of the perimeter columns occurring minutes before the collapses as alleged by them and others. There are many videos on which this would be evident if true.

The inward bowing of the perimeter columns is only ever shown in photos, which could be frozen frames taken from videos at the collapse initiation.
Response said:
http://wtc.nist.gov/WTC_Conf_Sep13-1...McAllister.pdf

All the bowing you could ask for, with full timelines. No need to thank me.
Claimant said:
I am asking about video showing the perimeter columns bowing minutes before the collapses.

The link you provided only showed photos with times claimed.

I am saying there are no videos which are shown which would verify that the columns were bowing for minutes before collapse. In other words one should be able to watch the videos for minutes with the columns being obviously bowed as in the photos. Videos would prove it and I am wondering why there aren't any available.
Response said:
What happened to your FOIA request for the video? Was it denied? If so, what reasons were given?
(Note: This question was asked four times, and was never acknowledged or answered)
Response said:
Because he already knows that it doesn't exist or would be very difficult to obtain. By insisting on evidence that sceptics cannot produce at will, he creates his own security-blanket. With this he is impregnable, but in a rather sad way.

If there were such a video, he'd be asking for something else.
Response said:
It does exist, and its source is printed on the still photos in the NIST report. That's why I'm asking [Claimant] what has become of his attempts to get a copy.
This is the Strong Irreducible Delusion. The belief is directly contradicted by irrefutable evidence. When confronted with this fact, the claimant quickly fabricated an excuse for not accepting the evidence (a call to perfection); avoided verifying the evidence for himself, sufficient to meet his own standards; and ultimately dropped the discussion entirely.

Was WTC 7 an “Inferno?”

Claimant said:
Some here have suggested that the building collapsed hours after the decision to pull the crews. Was Larry standing for hours at his window, somewhere close by, waiting for the building to collapse?

If he didn't wait the entire duration of the time, did someone call him to tell him when to start watching for WTC 7 to collapse, a building that has no discernible inferno raging in it?
Response said:
This is a lie. To equivocate the largest single building office fire in history with "no discernible inferno" makes it one of the most spectacular lies ever to come from the Truth Movement. Take a bow.
Response said:
...a building that has no discernible inferno raging in it?

Have you ever personally spoke to a fire fighter that saw the fires?
Claimant said:
This is desperation. How in this green world of God's can you call WTC7 "the largest single building office fire in history."

Please refer me to any report anywhere that makes this outrageous claim.
Response said:
… Now, we lack precise information about WTC 7, so there is substantial uncertainty in its true floor area involved -- this is true. Should it happen that additional information appears that downgrades WTC 7, perhaps making WTC 1 the new champion, I will gladly revise my statement. But at present, WTC 7 is the largest.

Nonetheless, suppose I'm wrong. Suppose there's structures none of us have ever heard of, monstrous, that experienced large fires. Suppose WTC 7 is only in the top five -- nay, top ten! -- single building office fires of all time. Compare this to what [Claimant] actually said … "No Discernible Inferno," that's what he said.

Tell me again which one of us is lying.
Claimant said:
There is no discernible inferno in WTC 7. Not a single photo shows inferno like conditions, as are seen in other hi rise fires.

In fact, both Shyam Sunder and Arthur Scheuerman describe WTC 7 as an ordinary office fire, severe yes, but not an inferno, and certainly not as you suggested "the single largest office fire in history." I asked you to post one report that calls WTC 7 this and you have not.
Response said:
I gave you my sources. The contenders are all < 21,000 m2, and that assumes total involvement of every affected floor in the One Meridian Plaza fire. WTC 7 is plausibly as much as double this, although my own estimate pegs it at 25,000 m2. The basis of that estimate is as follows: …
(Note: The calculation presented was never acknowledged nor responded to by the claimant.)

It is also worth pointing out that Firefighter Papalia, interviewed by the BBC in their recent Conspiracy Files report, refers to the fire in WTC 7 as “an inferno” without prompting. There is, therefore, not even a semantic argument to be made.

This is another Strong Irreducible Delusion. Many preposterous theories have been advanced on the premise that WTC 7 was not actually burning, or was burning in a structurally insignificant way. Upon questioning, those beliefs are easily shown to be purely delusional, yet continue to persist.

Do we need a new investigation?

This final example is an extraordinarily common one in the Truth Movement. Consider the following exchange:

Response said:
This is similar to the "straight answer" thread, in that I want you to cut down on the nonsense, the distractions, your inability to see the forest through the trees, etc.

Just answer the question with a simple yes or no. Can you do it?

Was 9-11 an inside job or not?
Claimant said:
We would need an investigation that's not an inside job to find that out.
Response said:
So after all your months of research and preaching the "truth" you can't answer such a simple yes-or-no question regarding what it is you believe.
Claimant said:
No I can't answer yes or no until a real investigation that's not an inside job is conducted.

That's what makes me different from a debunker.
Response said:
So can you reiterate your position on the issue more clearly, [Claimant]? Is it that you aren't sure whether the 9/11 attack was an inside job, but you do believe the various investigations into the attack were inside jobs?
Claimant said:
My position is no one knows exactly how it happened because there has been no real investigation into 9/11. Trying to debunk conspiracy theories is a waste of time because even if one could debunk a CT it still does nothing to support or make any official version to date any more credible or true. It’s just a distraction and maybe that’s just the objective for some people. They just want to distract from an incomplete ridiculous version of events.
Response said:
1. Either there was a Government cover-up, or there wasn't.

This seems straightforward, right? It should be obvious that only one of the two can be true. However, this also means that it was "inside job" or not. If it wasn't an inside job, there's no cover-up, since there's nothing to cover up. If there was a cover-up, it must have been an "inside job."

2. Government reports unambiguously state that there was no "inside job."

The 9/11 Commission Report, the NIST Report, etc. all describe, completely and in detail, the mechanics and the actors of September 11th. … There is no possible way to view these reports as inconclusive.

3. The only logical answers to the original question are "yes" and "no."

An answer of "yes" is acceptable, because there is no logical contradiction in the reports.

An answer of "no" is also acceptable. While this answer raises the question of exactly how or why the answerer knows otherwise, it is nonetheless logically consistent -- the answerer also has to throw out the reports completely, and this is consistent with the "cover-up" hypothesis. …
The answers typically given by conspiracy believers, and given again in this thread, however, are neither. They are "I Don't Know," and "We Need A New Investigation To Find Out."

Total nonsense. This answer only reveals that the respondent has no idea what those reports actually contain. Either those reports are correct, or they are very, very wrong. There's no middle-of-the-road answer. Anyone responding in this fashion reveals, without any uncertainty, that he or she is arguing from ignorance.

The delusion at the root of many calls for a new investigation is not that we do not know who was responsible for September 11th, but instead that nobody can know on the basis of existing information. This is a Strong Irreducible Delusion. Anyone who bothers to read the major reports, such as the 9/11 Commission and NIST, will realize that the conclusions are quite definitive. Therefore, either the Government is telling the truth, or the Government is part of the plot, and this fact can be discerned simply by either confirming or disproving the reports themselves. No “new investigation” is needed.

Those who argue otherwise are under the delusion that, simply because they cannot follow this logic, it must be wrong. Viewed another way, it is a fundamental confusion between fact and belief: While anyone is entitled to her opinion, there is no law that says her opinion must be as good as those of others. Some opinions are simply wrong.

Recommendations

Given the advanced age of the debate with the Truth Movement, and the lack of new arguments being put forth as explained in the Introduction, the influence of Irreducible Delusion can only be increasing in proportion. We have also explored how this factor disrupts debate, defies logic, and resists attempts to correct it through deflection and resurgence. None of this is conducive to education, meaningful debate, or even basic civility.

The author outlines the following recommended steps to address this issue:

1. If debate is proceeding badly, attempt to determine whether an Irreducible Delusion is the cause.

In preceding sections, the author presented recognition features of the Irreducible Delusion. Even though conspiracy theories, in particular, tend to inflate upon questioning, usually the Irreducible Delusion is omnipresent as a factor or motivation no matter how much the theory inflates, and thus it can be isolated deductively.

It is also important to keep in mind that all people, and not just the Truth Movement, may harbor Irreducible Delusions. One should attempt to verify one’s own position, both against known fact and other opinions, if a deadlock occurs.​

2. If Irreducible Delusion is indicated, attempt to define and classify the delusion in as simple terms as possible.

Without exception to date, examples of Irreducible Delusion can be expressed as simple, single-sentence, unambiguous statements of belief. While it may take considerable time to reach this state, once so formulated, the debate is over. If desired, one may simply confront the claimant with the belief thereafter, rather than address its many consequences.​

3. After isolating an Irreducible Delusion, re-evaluate your goals and act accordingly.

The Irreducible Delusion is, fundamentally, a rejection of logic. Upon isolating and confirming the belief, no further logical debate is likely to occur, and the likelihood of educating the incorrect party through yet more argumentation is nearly zero. Others are thereafter advised to discontinue, to remind the claimant of their underlying error, or to move to another topic.​

It is actually quite common for an individual to hold a mistaken belief that renders all conclusions on a topic indefensible, but to remain quite rational in unrelated fields. In this case, debaters will simply have to “agree to disagree” and avoid that topic, regardless of whom has made the logical mistake. This course is clearly more productive, and may also serve to dispel contentious feelings between the participants, ultimately facilitating an emotional, rather than a rational, re-evaluation of the Irreducible Delusion itself.

There are also those who engage in ridicule, a practice questioned by many on the JREF Forum. Various arguments have been advanced justifying this behavior, such as deterring others from adopting the incorrect viewpoint, or lightening the mood. It is also important to distinguish from reductio ad absurdum, an effective and logical technique, much as it is important to separate ad hominem and mere insult. While there are certainly individuals who will be swayed by ridicule, the author cannot determine whether it has proven effective or even counterproductive in this particular debate, and therefore cannot condone such behavior. Instead, the author merely advises others to be clear in their motivation – if humor and ridicule is the goal, so be it; but if one aims for education or preserving dignity of victims, ridicule is not called for.

Conclusion

In this whitepaper, the author defines and categorizes Irreducible Delusion, its effect on debate, and how it can be recognized through theory and examples. The concept is intended to guide participants into a more productive debate, and thereby facilitate retirement of unfounded yet persistent beliefs found here at the JREF Forum.

The concept of Irreducible Delusion is not unique to the Truth Movement by any means. Similar delusions are found in virtually every conspiracy theory or denialist position, including those who question the Moon Landing, the Holocaust, whether infectious diseases are human inventions, economic conspiracies, and so on. These delusions are also, on occasion, found even in science. History is replete with examples of individuals who refused to abandon unworkable theories or positions after being faced with superior evidence or reasoning, and even the most enlightened among us, such as Dr. Albert Einstein, occasionally struggled to overcome his own convictions.

Conviction, even blind conviction, can be a valuable human attribute in science and logic. It is this property which sometimes forces us to re-examine earlier results, to set high standards of rigor and proof, and to inspire equal determination in those who disagree. Science is ultimately a competitive process, and without competitive spirit, its strength is diminished. However, science also requires that conviction must be relinquished, and an equally strong conviction adopted, if the burdens of proof are met. It is this last requirement that so many find difficult to accept, and as a result, conviction can be a double-edged sword.

While not unique to the Truth Movement, the notion of Irreducible Delusion is particularly prevalent there. In contrast to the Scientific Method, the Truth Movement is dominated by focus on anomalies, and thereby on “disproof” rather than actually formulating and proving any hypothesis. This is clearly seen in the total absence of hypotheses from the Truth Movement, as well as the statements of some figures that actually discourage any hypothesis.

What is relevant to this discussion, however, is that the hunt for anomalies is eerily similar to the mechanism of Irreducible Delusion. In the former, one attempts to find a lone fact or conflict that allegedly disproves the entire hypothesis. In the latter, one incorporates a single error that propagates through the entire belief structure. If one avoids following the Scientific Method, but instead becomes convinced by an “argument to anomaly,” one thereby willingly accepts an Irreducible Delusion. It is therefore not at all surprising to find so many examples within the Truth Movement.

In the author’s opinion, the stalemate and odium found in debate with the Truth Movement is therefore a logical consequence of the Truth Movement’s actions. For their part, this can be avoided only by acceptance and adherence to the Scientific Method wherever applicable. This is verified by ongoing productive discussions with the very few Truth Movement members who have done so. For our part, the debate should be simplified, and if indeed as it appears Irreducible Delusion lies at the heart of it all, then nothing more remains to be said.

Disclaimer

This whitepaper is the considered opinion of the author alone and does not represent the James Randi Educational Foundation or any other agency or organization, public or private. All work performed with the author’s own materials on the author’s own time. All excerpts, sourced and anonymous, conform to Fair Use guidelines. This whitepaper contains no medical or psychological opinion or suggested course of treatment of any kind. You’ve been sitting there far too long, get out and enjoy the day.
 
I just have one comment on the section titled "Comparison to Formal Representations of Knowledge". Please note, the following is for a particular point of discussion and is not meant to be a comment on religion, but rather on a parallel between the development of a religious belief and an Irreducible Delusion.

I don't know if you have ever read Paul Tillich's Dynamics of Faith, but in it he discusses two types of faith: true faith and idolatrous faith. The main difference between the two is what he calls an ultimate concern. If the object in which one has faith is not truly ultimate, it is an idolatrous faith and is doomed to failure, what Tillich refers to as existential disappointment. The parallel I see between Tillich's argument and yours is that a minor point is often given far more weight than it really deserves (such as Griffin's obsession with Airfones). This adds weight to your argument that allowing such an Irreducible Delusion to be removed would have greater consequence on one's world view than the removal of a similar Non-irreducible Delusion (if such a beast exists).
 
Conspiracy theories in general and 9/11 conspiracies in particular are not logical, so debating with folks who believe in them is usually pointless and leads to a lot of yelling. It's better to just find the root mistake, point it out for everyone, and let it go. Humans are simply not logical creatures.

I disagree, and....

Abstract

In this whitepaper the author defines and applies the idea of Irreducible Delusion, which is the concept of a central element of illogic underlying many conspiracy theorist belief structures, and an artifact demonstrably present in the statements of many leaders and members of the 9/11 Truth Movement.


You've gone from "in general" in the summary to "many" right in the first sentence of your "paper". All the "leaders" you mention did enter the scene not before 2005. 9/11 skeptics don't have a leader at all and you have a real problem with selective picking of "evidence". So for now,

tl;dr

You are able to do better, R.
 
Excellent work, Ryan!

One of your finest paragraphs, fourth from the last:
Conviction, even blind conviction, can be a valuable human attribute in science and logic. It is this property which sometimes forces us to re-examine earlier results, to set high standards of rigor and proof, and to inspire equal determination in those who disagree. Science is ultimately a competitive process, and without competitive spirit, its strength is diminished. However, science also requires that conviction must be relinquished, and an equally strong conviction adopted, if the burdens of proof are met. It is this last requirement that so many find difficult to accept, and as a result, conviction can be a double-edged sword.
To learn to apply from this paper is something we could all relate to.

It stands with the best.

I especially liked your admonition regarding the use of ridicule, which was thoughtful and kind on your part.
Instead, the author merely advises others to be clear in their motivation – if humor and ridicule is the goal, so be it; but if one aims for education or preserving dignity of victims, ridicule is not called for.


Congratulations, and thanks!
:wave1
 
I only really take issue with a single point in the entire paper:

With respect to undecided parties, the decline of the Truth Movement demonstrates conclusively that undecided readers are few in number or already choosing not to side with the Truth Movement.

I still feel, and see plenty of evidence, that the overwhelming majority of people have a 9/11 awareness approaching zero - that is they have little to no understanding of the various investigative findings (official and non official) and little to no understanding of the arguments made by those who disagree with the various findings (the conspiracy theories).

To me it seems to be faulty logic to conclude "Truth Movement numbers are declining, therefore most people are decided on 9/11". I think you'd find most people aren't even aware there's anything to decide, or have no interest in the matter at all.

Of course this could all be dependent on what our sample is... all Americans? All people globally? All people actively interested in 9/11?

ETA.

The rest of the paper is excellent, by the way.
 
Never mind -- I'm not going to profane this thread.
 
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I agree with gumboot (including his ETA). There has been dicussion in this election cycle about the Low Information Voter (LIV) and how such a person will, in aggregate, affect the election. In regard to 9/11 I would change LIV to mean Low Information Viewer. I would suggest that LIVs dominate the population. They either don't know about 9/11 CTs or they, at best, might say, "Yeah, I heard about that somewhere."

Finally, I think that nearly all LIVs will forever remain as such. This will be more true as time passes except for possible brief spikes at significant anniveries of the date.

ETA: I did a google on "Low Information Viewer" only to find that I'm not the first to make this suggested change to the meaning of LIV. Damn.
 
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The following multi-part post is my longest post ever on the JREF Forums. As this is an original work it does not violate Rule 4 guidelines to the best of my understanding. But coming from me, this is no idle threat.

For those who disapprove of wordy Forum posts, or those who live life three steps at a time, I respect your aversion and offer the following concise summary:
Conspiracy theories in general and 9/11 conspiracies in particular are not logical, so debating with folks who believe in them is usually pointless and leads to a lot of yelling. It's better to just find the root mistake, point it out for everyone, and let it go. Humans are simply not logical creatures.​
If you disagree with the above sentiment, I invite you to consider my argument in depth, presented below. Thank you for your consideration.

Mackey... drink much?

Be civil. Attack the argument, and not the person making it.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer
 
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I disagree, and....




You've gone from "in general" in the summary to "many" right in the first sentence of your "paper". All the "leaders" you mention did enter the scene not before 2005. 9/11 skeptics don't have a leader at all and you have a real problem with selective picking of "evidence". So for now,

tl;dr

You are able to do better, R.


This post is gibberish. There is nothing to suggest that you can do better.
 
Thanks Mackey, this will be very helpful.

During debates I sometimes let them take control and begin saying stuff like "ok, lets say for instance you are right about that, well then how could....." when I should not let them get that far and instead point out how they are logically not correct. This will help me remember to do that.

I thought you might have included some tips on how to counter when they accuse us of logical fallacies but perhaps that belongs to a different topic. Often times they throw out ad-hom and strawmen accusations willy-nilly and I would like to better address that when they are wrong. Have you or anyone else talked about this before (link maybe)?

Thanks again.
 
You've gone from "in general" in the summary to "many" right in the first sentence of your "paper".


Your critique of the whitepaper falls far short as the "in general" refers to specific theories and the "many" refers to belief structures. Not all belief structures are constructed in the way R.Mackey suggests in this paper. This is why he devotes an entire section on recognizing such belief structures.
 
I disagree, and....




You've gone from "in general" in the summary to "many" right in the first sentence of your "paper". All the "leaders" you mention did enter the scene not before 2005. 9/11 skeptics don't have a leader at all and you have a real problem with selective picking of "evidence". So for now,

tl;dr

You are able to do better, R.

Reading comprehension, lacking you are.
 

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