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Graeme MacQueen Debunks Mackey & Roberts

This article shows that only 7 firemen actually made observations that they thought WTC 7 would fall, while 50 "were told" it would fall.

Also most people are only told it will rain the next day while a handful actually monitor equipment and make the prediction.


These 7 firemen sound very confused and paranoid, and contradict NIST, who still doesn't know why WTC 7 fell seven years later.

If NIST doesn't know why the building fell how could they be contradicted? Furthermore, what evidence do you have that NIST has no idea what caused the collapse?


16 thought WTC 7 would fall more than 2 hours before it did, while 6 thought it would fall more than 4 hours before it did. Wow!

Yes, this proves that firefighters are capable of observation and extrapolation. The closer the building was to collapse the more people could see it was about to collapse.

None of this makes any sense at all, unless it were a controlled demolition, with a cover story being put out by Giuliani's office and/or some "engineering type person".

That this makes no sense to you is an indictment of your inability to perceive what is and isn't "sensible" and does not implicate Giuliani.
 
Oh my I have only typed "pwned" like 2 times in my life and then noticed that over at LCF they have it in the title about this debate
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/409466/1/#new
LOL!

My favorite:

Gage's experiment of using cardboard boxes to present the WTC's at the end was the final nail in Roberts coffin. He didnt know what to say because there was nothing to say. It was game, set, match at that point. The look of defeat on Roberts face was priceless.

There we have it. These people truly believe cardboard boxes are comparable to two 110 story steel frame buildings.
 
Moving some posts to AAH for personalising the discussion. Keep it civil and on topic please. Re-read Rule 12.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero
 
In case anyone's wondering where the word that 7's collapse was imminent might have originated from, check Capt. Currid's statement:

Captain Michael Currid, the president of the Uniformed Fire Officers Association, said that some time after the collapse of the Twin Towers, “Someone from the city's Office of Emergency Management” told him that building 7 was “basically a lost cause and we should not lose anyone else trying to save it," after which the firefighters in the building were told to get out. (Murphy, Dean E., 2002. September 11: An Oral History. New York: Doubleday pp. 175-76)
 
In case anyone's wondering where the word that 7's collapse was imminent might have originated from, check Capt. Currid's statement:

Dude.

The OEM was based in the WTC7.

WTC7 was on fire.

Your quote says nothing about collapses.
 
In case anyone's wondering where the word that 7's collapse was imminent might have originated from, check Capt. Currid's statement:
Captain Michael Currid, the president of the Uniformed Fire Officers Association, said that some time after the collapse of the Twin Towers, “Someone from the city's Office of Emergency Management” told him that building 7 was “basically a lost cause and we should not lose anyone else trying to save it," after which the firefighters in the building were told to get out. (Murphy, Dean E., 2002. September 11: An Oral History. New York: Doubleday pp. 175-76)


So we have one guy who heard it from "someone" at the OEM, "Some time" after the collapse of the Twin Towers, "after which" the firefighters were pulled out.

No info on where the OEM got their information, or who at the OEM made this communication, no idea how long "some time after" is, and no idea how long after this communication the firefighters were pulled out.

Oh, yeah, that raises lots of doubts!
 
This is a great article. It totally debunks the idea put out by MacKey and Roberts that the WTC 7 foreknowledge was a rational thing for the firemen because of all the fire and debris damage.
No. Mackey and Roberts may agree with that idea, but it does not belong to them and they did not originate this evaluation.
This article shows that only 7 firemen actually made observations that they thought WTC 7 would fall, while 50 "were told" it would fall.
No; more than seven firefighters - from the rank-and-file on up to chief officers - made direct observations of the condition of the building, and appropriate evaluations of its condition. And, as has been pointed out, being "told" is not mutually exclusive with making one's own observation and evaluation.
These 7 firemen sound very confused and paranoid,
Subjective. I note that you sound confused and paranoid, as well as ignorant; you can't even figure out that...
and contradict NIST, who still doesn't know why WTC 7 fell seven years later.
... doesn't make sense, because you can't contradict something that hasn't been formulated yet. Moreover, this statement incorrectly conflates observation of empirical collapse indicators with an effort to model the specific course of the collapse itself. In other words, not only have you no idea what you're saying, you couldn't even formulate the thought properly.
MacQueen also finds that a majority of the firemen "definitely" thought WTC 7 would fall. Really, they knew definitely?

16 thought WTC 7 would fall more than 2 hours before it did, while 6 thought it would fall more than 4 hours before it did. Wow!

None of this makes any sense at all, unless it were a controlled demolition, with a cover story being put out by Giuliani's office and/or some "engineering type person".
You and your theologian are remarkably arrogant and ignorant.

Collapse indicators such as observed by FDNY at WTC 7 warn firefighters that a building is in imminent danger of collapse. Such indicators do not mean that the building must collapse, or in what exact fashion, or when it will happen. From a firefighter's perspective, they mean that it's time to get the crews out and establish a collapse zone. That does not mean that a firefighter can't look at a heavily involved, heavily damaged building and judge that it's collapse is inevitable - especially after the collapse of two larger, heavily involved, heavily damaged structures a few hours before. (The last is actually the one thing that MacQueen brought out that was actually relevant; but, of course, the "truthers" don't seem very interested in NYPD warnings of imminent collapse at WTC 1/2 earlier in the day...)

I agree with leftysergeant; I am a (volunteer) firefighter with training in building construction and collapse, and I find that FDNY's observations and evaluations are perfectly reasonable and in line with the observed conditions that day. MacQueen is merely a pompous blowhard with no expertise and no clue of firefighting or firefighters, whose analysis would be laughable if it wasn't such a slimy, underhanded assault on the integrity and competence of FDNY.

Your own post has even less of interest, if possible, than MacQueen's silly bloviations, but I'll make you the same offer I've made others like you: I'll chip in for your transportation to an actual FDNY firehouse to give your spiel in person, to actual firefighters... as long as I can be there with some popcorn.
 
I agree with leftysergeant; I am a (volunteer) firefighter with training in building construction and collapse, and I find that FDNY's observations and evaluations are perfectly reasonable and in line with the observed conditions that day. MacQueen is merely a pompous blowhard with no expertise and no clue of firefighting or firefighters, whose analysis would be laughable if it wasn't such a slimy, underhanded assault on the integrity and competence of FDNY.

Your own post has even less of interest, if possible, than MacQueen's silly bloviations, but I'll make you the same offer I've made others like you: I'll chip in for your transportation to an actual FDNY firehouse to give your spiel in person, to actual firefighters... as long as I can be there with some popcorn.

And this volunteer firefighter with over 40 years of experience and plenty of training in building construction and collapse agrees. I have offered in the past to take various truthers to a FDNY firehouse (10 House would my own suggestion) to discuss their claims with actual FDNY firefighters, but for some reason they never seem willing to accept the offer. And I'd be glad to also chip in to help pay transportation. Heck, I'll even bring my own popcorn....
 
Great, a Canadian David Ray Griffin.

Yeah, just what we needed here above the 49th parallel. :boggled:

For the record, though, MacQueen is not and was not a professor at McMaster University. He was an associate professor (of religious studies) at McMaster at some point, but he was never a full professor there.


ETA: Oh, and yes, what leftysergeant, sts60, and hamradioguy said.
 
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And this volunteer firefighter with over 40 years of experience and plenty of training in building construction and collapse agrees. I have offered in the past to take various truthers to a FDNY firehouse (10 House would my own suggestion) to discuss their claims with actual FDNY firefighters, but for some reason they never seem willing to accept the offer. And I'd be glad to also chip in to help pay transportation. Heck, I'll even bring my own popcorn....

Out of work guys living in mom's basement don't have good medical coverage, though. Maybe we need a matching fund to raise the transportation costs and EMS charges for after the "discussion".
 
Yeah, just what we needed here above the 49th parallel. :boggled:

For the record, though, MacQueen is not and was not a professor at McMaster University. He was an associate professor (of religious studies) at McMaster at some point, but he was never a full professor there.


ETA: Oh, and yes, what leftysergeant, sts60, and hamradioguy said.

Uh, an associate professor is a professor. An associate professor can even be tenured. But to say MacQueen was not a professor because he was not a "full" professor, whatever that is, is ridiculous.

Perhaps you're thinking of adjunct, in which the professor is not full time or on tenure track.
 
The road to tenure generally leads through the workshop of research. As a researcher, MacQueen appears to be competing with Jones for the prize for slovenliness. He ignores acoounts of the same occurrance that would tend to cancel each other out, like Ondrovi's description of bombs going off around her and Deshore's account of burning cars cooking off.
 
None of this makes any sense at all, unless it were a controlled demolition, with a cover story being put out by Giuliani's office and/or some "engineering type person".

:jaw-dropp

WOW so if something doesn't make sense to you then you just jump to accusing innocent people of being involved in mass murder?
Your post summarizes the truth community perfectly.
Please NEVER EVER be part of a jury!
 
My favorite:



There we have it. These people truly believe cardboard boxes are comparable to two 110 story steel frame buildings.

When he stood up with those boxes my jaw just about fell off my face.
I bet he spent hours coming up with that.
I kept expecting Penn and Teller to walk in at any moment and yell
"*********!"
 
When he stood up with those boxes my jaw just about fell off my face.
I bet he spent hours coming up with that.
I kept expecting Penn and Teller to walk in at any moment and yell
"*********!"
Yeah well P&T already met him..

 
He was on the CT episode of BS?
Man I gotta go back and watch that again.
 
He was on the CT episode of BS?
Man I gotta go back and watch that again.
Man...you are slow tonight. Left is Eric "The anti-semitic scum" Hufschmid, right is Richard "Cardboardboy" Gage.

Although there is more than a passing resemblance.

ETA - Hufschmid is a software engineer and Cardboardboy thinks he is an engineer :)
 
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I thought that was a space alien (on the left). Could you double check your source on that?
 
Man...you are slow tonight. Left is Eric "The anti-semitic scum" Hufschmid, right is Richard "Cardboardboy" Gage.

Although there is more than a passing resemblance.

ETA - Hufschmid is a software engineer and Cardboardboy thinks he is an engineer :)

LOL hey I am blond!
I thought the guy on the left looked like Gage on meth.
:)
 

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