CIT/Air America Debate Challenge

[Mr. Skinny]

I saw a thread in which people here wanted to know where they could send requests from the media for debunkers. Brainster has appeared on many radio shows and Gravy appeared on many shows with Ron.

I'm not sure how to read the first sentence. I know it's a PITA, but do you have a link to the thread, or could you restate the first sentence?

Brainster and Gravy are not employed by, nor do they officially represent the JREF, theauthor.

JREF conspiracy subforum is the self styled centre of debunking.
But when the going gets tough, you run away.

Well, I agree, that the JREF conspiracy subforum is a (not the) "self styled centre of debunking", how is that any different than any other debunker site or sites?

What makes the JREF so special? That's my question.


Edited to add: If the answer to my question is " The JREF conspiracy subform is simply the most popular/well read/ most authorative site in the minds of the truth movement", I'm willing to accept that explanation.

 

[beachnut]

On the last air america debate on 911, Kevin Barrett gleefully made the point that they couldnt find any architects or engineers etc to represent the official story. Looks like JREF are going to prove him right again.

That is due to the fact Barrett's insane ideas on 9/11 are like arguing with a Lock Ness Monster believer, or a Bigfoot believer. They are insane, how do you argue with idiots who jump from one fact challenged idea to the next never presenting evidence! It is impossible to keep up with their ideas, they are dolts who believe it is so because they say it is.

CIT and p4t have no evidence, they also have the motto, "we have no theory"! They are pure hearsay speculation experts who are too fact challenged to form rational conclusions. Why? What is wrong with them?

Please, if you have heard a rational idea backed with evidence from these fact challenged beings, present them.

List their rational ideas on 9/11, and the evidence. You will find not one thing!

They calculated 11.2 Gs with the most pathetically perverted version of math and physics I have seen. Bad, you can not correct it, you have to do your own version. It turned out the 11.2 G fantasy math mess up could be done with less than 1.7 Gs.

How do you debate pure garbage from fact challenged beings? You can not teach them physics in an hour. The conclusions they draw on witnesses is pathetic. Have you seen how bad their analysis is?

No one needs to show up to tell what really happen on 9/11, the cit, p4t and Barrett, will debunk themselves. Their ideas are so far out it is self critiquing. I have exposed ordinary people to their statements, they call them nut cases, pure stupid and other names for intelligence levels lower than dirt. When I tell them a few of them make money off of their idea, they understand it is standard old snake oil salesmen, updated to the internet.

I wonder if CIT actually believe their ideas. I mean non-paths. Do they have any new non-paths. What is it, p4t had to coach them not to commit to any paths NOC. You have to remember, p4t have zero theories on 9/11. They also have zero evidence. A clean slate.

Who believes cit and p4t? Their membership has never taken off. Their most famous member believe aliens live among us, and he has as much evidence for his ideas as p4t and cit have for their implications of pathetic conclusions which they can not make because they have no official theory.

The most fact challenged idea they push, the silliest notion, is their calling everyone who understands 9/11 events, government loyalists, or government apologist; what is the term they use. It makes them looks so fact challenged.

I can see air america now; will you debate some people who think 77 did not hit the Pentagon? What? Are you nuts? Who would debate nut case ideas?

p4t co founder use to come here to post, but he can not play by the rules. He has an issue with facts and evidence, if you use them he bans you at p4t, and here he blew up and got mad; self destructed. He comes back and has copies of all my erased secret posts. He is paranoid; an over the hill pilot like me, but he must of be grounded for being paranoid fact challenged and not able to handle criticism; is he still grounded?

The leader of the p4t does not know the number of feet in a nautical mile, he does not know the frequency band a radio altimeter works at. These are things kids can look up on the internet. He is going to use what you say against you instead of sticking to the facts; oops cit and p4t have no facts! Well, what can they do but make up stories of how they have something about 9/11, but wait; p4t have no theories! They are too challenged to figure out what the passengers on flight 93 figured out in minutes. The p4t are not able to do math after 6 years! Yep, a fifth grader can look up a few terms and know more than the entire aviation knowledge of the leader of the pack at p4t. You have to log in to see the forum at p4t, they have to bump their numbers some how. Their phone up expert on a FDR is a salesman. They have attracted about 0.00001 percent of all pilots to join their non-theory bad math/physics club. Or is it less?

Funny, what will they do present their evidence; oops, that took zero time!

11.2 G error man must be a slow typist. He thinks JREF is wasting time thinking about him. The 11.2 G physics expert, mr nautical mile must understand he is the one pushing the false information, or at least implication of false conclusion, (since he does not have a theory or conclusion) and skeptics are happy to expose his false ideas. It is ironic he calls others names without cause, yet misses why he is labeled a snake oil salesman. Irony.

I can see most the time will be spent on the only fact they will have, one came to debate their fantasy ideas. Wowzer;

Ron is too calm when he is with total fact challenged expert like p4t and cit. Or will they ever show up in NYC?

No need to personally attack cit or p4t, they have no facts and no evidence. The proof is they have zero theories, no conclusions, they just sell DVDs to others and plug their web sites. Pilots for truth, are not for truth, they are for selling DVDs; CIT, the Citizen investigation team is the same, selling false information to willing buyers. Their own witnesses debunk them, and if a witness does not support their ideas, they are a government agent. Paranoid stuff, if you do lots of drugs, you may fall for the ideas of cit and p4t.

 

[Myriad]

It might also be pointed out that people with actual expertise often require more than two days' notice for an engagement.

Anyone who wants to prove me wrong is welcome to attempt to get a tree surgeon, consulting structural engineer, or dishwasher repairman onto their property by first thing Friday morning, without involving a relative or spending all day Wednesday on the phone.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[MarkyX]

I think you guys are missing the picture.

Tell me, does the public even remotely care about CIT or Pilots of 9/11 Denial? No, they don't. These people have nothing to contribute and are ignored by the masses. Let them claim victory; they can only brag to five other people who care about their existence.

 

[pomeroo]

I think you guys are missing the picture.

Tell me, does the public even remotely care about CIT or Pilots of 9/11 Denial? No, they don't. These people have nothing to contribute and are ignored by the masses. Let them claim victory; they can only brag to five other people who care about their existence.

Marky, Air America is a loony-left network, but Bush Derangement Syndrome is no excuse for promoting the CIT's lunacy. The "pilots" will be peddling their snake oil to the largest audience they could ever hope to reach.

 

[Thunder]

in all honesty and sincerity.....why would anyone want to participate in such a "debate"??

all the evidence will be disregarded as govt. disinfo and all witnesses as agents/shills/Zionists.

the debate is over. the truth won...and the "Truth" lost.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

I think you guys are missing the picture.

Tell me, does the public even remotely care about CIT or Pilots of 9/11 Denial? No, they don't. These people have nothing to contribute and are ignored by the masses. Let them claim victory; they can only brag to five other people who care about their existence.

Sometimes people's understandable distaste for the current administration can make them want to believe in the stuff CIT sells just because it makes it that much easier to hate the administration. Many of them simply have never been exposed to the nonsense. Not to mention that the kids at CIT are going to make a misleading argument so as to con these people by leaving out important stuff such as there not being any witnesses for their flyover, or the fact that eyewitness testimony is often incorrect. Most people don't know these things and thus without knowing it, their BS couold sound convincing.

 

[pomeroo]

Sometimes people's understandable distaste for the current administration can make them want to believe in the stuff CIT sells just because it makes it that much easier to hate the administration. Many of them simply have never been exposed to the nonsense. Not to mention that the kids at CIT are going to make a misleading argument so as to con these people by leaving out important stuff such as there not being any witnesses for their flyover, or the fact that eyewitness testimony is often incorrect. Most people don't know these things and thus without knowing it, their BS couold sound convincing.

Precisely.

 

[Myriad]

The scheduling makes it out of the question for me to participate, even if it were just a matter of phoning in.

Otherwise, I'd consider offering to participate, though I'd understand if the show turned me down. I'm not an architect, engineer, or aviator. But I've learned enough here to be able to refute these guys' claims, I can speak plainly, and I have a face for radio. I'm just about the quality of opposition they've earned.

I do hope someone is available to fill the role.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[pomeroo]

Amazingly, I omitted Ryan Mackey from my list of people who should accept the invitation to expose the bogus "pilots." What was I thinking?

 

[theauthor]

You could include the whole of JREf in your list and I will still bet you 1000 dollars that none of of them agree to this show.

You must have noticed by now that it is the official story supporters who are afraid to debate. Even popular mechanics won't debate the subject any more after Davin Coburn was soundly humiliated by Charles Goyette. The national 911 debate didn't occur because the OCTs wouldn't show.

Then just a week ago on the very same radio show that will be hosting CIT, Richard gage, Steven Jones and Kevin Barrett all appeared to debate. Guess what? The only person who would appear for the debate was an ex-marine with no relevant expertise.

 

[beachnut]

Then just a week ago on the very same radio show that will be hosting CIT, Richard gage, Steven Jones and Kevin Barrett all appeared to debate. Guess what? The only person who would appear for the debate was an ex-marine with no relevant expertise.

You should debate them. You could compare evidence, the show could be over in a minute.

They have failed to do simple math, they have no theory, what will they debate?

No evidence, no rational story, how can you debate people who make up new stuff on the fly? What do you do when they say they discovered bigfoot scat in back of the Pentagon proving 77 flew by? They use pure hearsay, you can not even question what they say, they didn't say it.

They need no one to show up as proof the events of 9/11 were strange. They have to say it is a government story to even get people interested. What a bunch of junk. But since p4t have zero theories, what is there to debate, they have no theories.

We do not offer theory

They have some made up implications of ideas on 9/11. Is that it? Go read their no theory web page. See the 11.2 G physics error. See how anti-intellectual people can be.

Selling the truth for 15 bucks - p4t and cit! they take master card visa paypal amex discover $$$$$$ buy false information or read it on the internet and use your own mind! What a novel idea.

 

[realitybites]

While I can see Pomeroo's point in not wanting to let idiocy like this get a pass on such a (relative to the movement) large forum, part of me says let them go.

They whine and complain of all these "gatekeepers" who are preventing them from bringing about justice. This internet radio show has the potential of reaching more of an audience than LCFC.

It will be interesting to see how they chalk up their lack of progress after this airs.

 

[pomeroo]

You could include the whole of JREf in your list and I will still bet you 1000 dollars that none of of them agree to this show.

You must have noticed by now that it is the official story supporters who are afraid to debate. Even popular mechanics won't debate the subject any more after Davin Coburn was soundly humiliated by Charles Goyette. The national 911 debate didn't occur because the OCTs wouldn't show.

Goyette pretended to be an "agnostic," a popular word with conspiracy frauds. Those of us who are familiar with the interview forget how Coburn was "humiliated," possibly because it didn't happen. The national debate didn't occur because the liars wrongly imagine that they can persuade representatives of NIST and the military to sit through a blizzard of their deranged falsehoods.

Then just a week ago on the very same radio show that will be hosting CIT, Richard gage, Steven Jones and Kevin Barrett all appeared to debate. Guess what? The only person who would appear for the debate was an ex-marine with no relevant expertise.

Guess what? Your fellow liars made sure that nobody knew about the show. Why do you suppose these charlatans run from all real debates?

 

[The Big Dog]

"If no one does step up to the plate, we can read through the thread on air to show the world how our "opposition" behaves, and we can address the few arguments that are pointed out in the thread."

Hmmm, OK:

Balsamo : Why can't you provide us the math to support your proposed flight path at the Pentagon?

CIT: Why do you claim that all of your witnesses were mistaken or brainwashed when they all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Gage: Why did it take you so long to fix your egregious errors about the acceleration of gravity?

CIT: Why do you claim that all of your witnesses were mistaken or brainwashed when they all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Balsamo : Why are you hanging around Kevin Barrett? Do you think it is a good idea to hang people who point out your errors about the acceleration of gravity?

CIT: Why do you ignore the fact that all of your witnesses all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Balsamo : How about those CIT guys, laughingstock or just pathetic?

Barrett: What are you doing with that noose?

CIT: Say, Dom asked a great question: Why are you licking Gatekeepers boots?

CIT: Why do you ignore the fact that all of your witnesses all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

CIT: Why do you ignore the fact that all of your witnesses all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Balsamo : Ya got that math for your flight path yet? Take your time. I know you got to bring a couple of knuckleheads to a radio show. Tell you what, you send your math over any old time.

CIT: Nevermind, we know why.

 

[pomeroo]

"If no one does step up to the plate, we can read through the thread on air to show the world how our "opposition" behaves, and we can address the few arguments that are pointed out in the thread."

Hmmm, OK:

Gage: Why can't you provide us the math to support your proposed flight path at the Pentagon?

CIT: Why do you claim that all of your witnesses were mistaken or brainwashed when they all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Gage: Why did it take you so long to fix your egregious errors about the acceleration of gravity?

CIT: Why do you claim that all of your witnesses were mistaken or brainwashed when they all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Gage: Why are you hanging around Kevin Barrett? Do you think it is a good idea to hang people who point out your errors about the acceleration of gravity?

CIT: Why do you ignore the fact that all of your witnesses all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Gage: How about those CIT guys, laughingstock or just pathetic?

Barrett: What are you doing with that noose?

CIT: Say, Dom asked a great question: Why are you licking Gatekeepers boots?

CIT: Why do you ignore the fact that all of your witnesses all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

CIT: Why do you ignore the fact that all of your witnesses all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Gage: Ya got that math for your flight path yet? Take your time. I know you got to bring a couple of knuckleheads to a radio show. Tell you what, you send your math over any old time.

CIT: Nevermind, we know why.

But, we know all of this stuff. The audience of Air America doesn't. And being far-left loons, they are prepared to buy any sort of crap as long as it slanders Bush.

 

[Bobert]

Guess what? Your fellow liars made sure that nobody knew about the show. Why do you suppose these charlatans run from all real debates?

Seems that they are repeating this and then crying about how no debunkers are showing up.
Funny how Rob is the co-producer so you would figure if he really wanted and was open to having a debunker guest on the show then he would have made it happen
This guy is a joke.
Funny to how Craig should be excited that he has a radio show from which to present his "evidence" and begin the trials like he said would begin but instead he is whining and crying about no debunkers being on the show.
Craig is a pathetic joke.

 

[Bobert]

But, we know all of this stuff. The audience of Air America doesn't. And being far-left loons, they are prepared to buy any sort of crap as long as it slanders Bush.

Does Air America normally have members of the truth movement on?
Rob co produces this so does he normally co-produce shows for AM?

For the sake of argument if the truthers are not normally on AM then I am holding out hope that the audience of AM will not buy into the fantasy that Craig is pushing.

 

[qarnos]

According to Richard Dawkins, when one of his (anonymous) Australian Colleagues is challenged to debate a creationist he responds "That would look great on your CV - not so great on mine". I think that might apply here.

 

[beachnut]

They will say Hani can't fly. He hits the Pentagon in real life, and the only pilots on the planet who can not hit the side of building in the safety of a flight simulator are pilots, and the members of the prestigious, we ain't got no stinkin' theories p4t.

If anyone calls in, remind the challenged pilots of p4t, that a small prop plane pilot entered a 757 simulator on film, and preformed an impact into the Pentagon, first time, zero time in heavies. Oops, only p4t pilots are not as good as rookie pilots, and murdering terrorists! That is a expert status worthy of 9/11 truth groups. Wowzer.

Remind Rob Balsamo the frequency band the radar altimeter works at; it is easy to look up. Then remind Rob Balsamo the number of feet in a nautical mile. Be sure to help these guys out, the are not good at math, or physics, and they have a hard time figuring out in six years what the passengers on flight 93 figured out in minutes. They also use 9/11 events and stir up ideas to sell DVDs for 15 bucks. The truth only cost 15 bucks.
The Pentacon, Citizen Investigation Team, look it up save 15 bucks, think for yourself