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Most atheists do not know what science says about our origins

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Because, I'd wager, he fails to see that to most people, in most countries, evolution isn't such a big deal. We don't fall over ourselves yelling 'OMG I'm descended from a monkey!!?' the first time we hear about it. We don't lose or gain self-esteem or change our morals over it. We know that we and chimps have a common ancestor, that we possibly all came from the same cell, and so on. It's a fact, and we treat it as one, much the same way we treat it as a fact that our planet orbits the Sun, not the other way around. It's one of those things that's not a big deal until someone, in this case the fundamentalists, make it a big deal.

Oh, and DOC, you can get over the 'Theory of Evolution=Atheism' deal, too. Again, most people in most countries have no problem at all being Christians despite knowing that they evolved from 'lower' forms of life. Much like the way you hopefully have no problem being Christian and believing in a round Earth at the same time.

Oh, and:


I challenge this statement.

I do not think "that to most people, in most countries, evolution isn't such a big deal."

I think that if you want to make it a popularity contest, creationism will come out on top. I think we should avoid ad populum fallacies. Even if they are accepted as valid the populace is largely on the other side, I think.
 
How much better could DOCs energies be spent if he wasn't so busy trying to prove that his delusion is true to himself so that he can "live happily ever after" for his "faith".

If he employed his quote mining skills in the fossil fuel industry... we could all drive Humvees until the second coming :)
 
I challenge this statement.

I do not think "that to most people, in most countries, evolution isn't such a big deal."

I think that if you want to make it a popularity contest, creationism will come out on top. I think we should avoid ad populum fallacies. Even if they are accepted as valid the populace is largely on the other side, I think.

Oh surely not ? I have no data on this but .....surely not :(
 
I challenge this statement.

I do not think "that to most people, in most countries, evolution isn't such a big deal."

I think that if you want to make it a popularity contest, creationism will come out on top. I think we should avoid ad populum fallacies. Even if they are accepted as valid the populace is largely on the other side, I think.

By Creationism, I assume you mean the Abrahamic version...

If so, please remember that pretty much half the world lives in just two countries (China and India)

I have a hunch this might have some bearing on the overall popularity... but what do I know?
 
Yes, I know most atheists believe life came from vague primitive life forms. But my contention is that a large majority do not know that prevailing science states that all the millions of plant and animal species, including the dinosaurs as well as their family and friends came from the "same" "single" microscopic cell.

I guess that I'm just not getting the argument here.

We all know that it is a logical certainty that all the humans alive today had one common mother. It is a simple inductive argument: everyone has a mother (including all mothers), and so it must be that any given subset chosen from everyone who has ever lived is descended from a single "mitochondrial Eve" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve). Also, everyone alive today had a single father (the Y-Chromosomal Adam) at some point in the past, for exactly the same reason. These two likely occurred at different times and places, and had no relationship except that one was descended from the other. And then, of course, everyone is also descended from his father, and his grandfather, and her mother, and so on. Interestingly, these two individuals are assumed to have lived about 130,000 years ago; There is another person, the MRCA (most recent common ancestor) of everyone alive today, who may have lived a late as about 3,000 years ago.

These arguments depend upon the fact that everyone has a father and a mother, that it takes both to cause a person. If we believe the Bible we may have had an anomaly in Jesus Christ, but he had no offspring (according to the Bible again) so that's ok.

Well, if you believe that (and you have to, given the definitions and the logic), then you have to accept, I think, that there is one common ancestoral entity for us all, and now we include all life on the planet. This seems to be a logical consequence of the theory of evolution. No matter that the offspring may be cloned buds or any of the other weird ways that life reproduces, there has to be just one. And it's not required that that one be the first live entity to exist (whatever that means) either, just that we all descend from one such animate entity; he may have been a member of a community, or he may have been the first to fulfill whatever definition of life you care to make.

This is a mathematical necessity. The only way you could avoid it is to hypothesize that life sprang up independently in different places at roughly the same time, and both (or several) of these were viable and were able to compete to have descendants today. This is unlikely, but not ruled out by archaeo-biology, as far as I know. Since it is well known that symbiosis did occur in early protobacterial beings, giving rise to the mitochondria within cells, it may be that the enveloping cells and the mitochondria have different parentages, but not likely, as their chemistry appears to be too equivalent to be accidental.

So, yes. To any thinking person who accepts logic and evolutionary biology, it must be apparent that all life, with a high confidence, descends from a single live entity somewhere in the past. All others which may have ever been alive are now, probably, extinct.

And what difference does that make? After I've accepted being descended from my parents, the rest follows.
 
What's a belief in atheism and why do you believe that atheism and evolution are interrelated?

It seems his entire world view is based on very simplistic equations with no unknowns. Something like

Atheist = Evolutionist = ACLU = Hugo Black Pfeffermensch = KKK = bad

If he employed his quote mining skills in the fossil fuel industry... we could all drive Humvees until the second coming :)

:newlol:thumbsup:
 
We (in other countries) know that we and chimps have a common ancestor, that we possibly all came from the same cell, and so on.


Regarding the same cell part, from experience I can say most Americans don't know.
 
Well, even if you are right that most americans do not know how do you work out that the knowledge would lead to less atheism? People in other countries do know. And some of those other countries are less religious than the USA.
 
"Dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." --God.
I've plagiarised it before, and I'll plagiarise it again:

If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

I do not think "that to most people, in most countries, evolution isn't such a big deal."
Well I can tell you that in this country at least (Australia), evolution is not such a big deal. I can count on one hand the number of people (non-academic) I know who give a [rule8] about evolution. Australians are apathists. There are things more important to us than what happened millions of years ago. Like cricket.
 
Regarding the same cell part, from experience I can say most Americans don't know.
There may be some truth to this as it turns out our science and math education in this country has become woefully poor. This is partly due to a general devaluing that americans have placed on technical knowledge and skill. It is common in america for people to doubt scientists, doctors, engineers by labeling them "so-called experts". However, they give extra weight to charlatans whose only critique of science is "science doesn't know everything" As such, people believe that herbals are cure-alls, that eastern medicine has magical knowledge western medicine is to dumb to know, and ID is equivalent to evolution.

But note that you still have failed to prove that most atheists don't know evolutionary theory.
 
Regarding the same cell part, from experience I can say most Americans don't know.

So DOC, your tactic is to just ingore the posts Ocelot and I (and others) have quoted and reposted demonstrating you have ignored replies to you in this thead and pick a single sentence of another post and reply to it as if our replies you didn't exist, as if the replies others who repudiate your OP don't exist, as if our examples where you failed to respond to replies after you tried to call out people for supposedly not replying to you and as if your pathetic goalpost shifting in this "reply" (Americans vs. atheists) wasn't yet another example of you failing to reply to the overwhelming evidence that your OP was incorrect?

You really have transended the boundry of argumentative patheticness I have seen reached but rarely passed since Aug. 2001.
 
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Well, even if you are right that most americans do not know how do you work out that the knowledge would lead to less atheism? People in other countries do know. And some of those other countries are less religious than the USA.

Most of the civilized world does consider themselves religious and most accept evolution:
http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.html

Non acceptance of evolution is associated with religious fundamentalism and America is particularly aberrant in this area. Non acceptance of evolution is strongly associated with "religiosity" and also associated with less scientific education, general ignorance, and socialy aberrant behavior. My guess is that about a quarter of Americans fall into this ignorant bunch... and they think they are smarter than the other 3/4. Oh, and they imagine themselves saved for believing this, as well.

Although the less bright religious people believe that accepting evolution will make people act uncivil, it seems that religiosity and scientific ignorance are more likely to lead to social dysfunction.

Understanding and acceptance of evolution is associated with greater education, intelligence, and social health. Failure to understand or accept it is associated with superstitious primitive thinking and dysfunctional behavior.

In America, there's this notion that evolution leads to atheism... which is seen as evil and horrific and the opposite of all that is good and moral. Evolution might, well, lead to atheism as it makes much more sense than original sin and all the other creation stories that people have been inventing over the years. It does make a god seem less likely. As humans understand more gods role becomes fuzzier and fuzzier. But people in America fear "non belief". They see it as much more than their "non belief" in other gods. It comes from this lie propagated by religion that you need religion to be moral (religious people imagine themselves more moral than others, but it doesn't translate into facts... of course religious people don't need facts to believe things-- faith trumps evidence according to the invisible guy they answer to.)

I think that because there isn't a big fear of atheism in other developed countries... there isn't this desperate clinging to faith as a means of knowledge. People can have a fuzzy god and learn about the natural world. For many people like DOC-- evolution is heard as "evil" lution... they fear "biting from the tree of knowledge" and ending up suffering forever. I know it must sound weird to a foreigner... I know that most people in other developed countries-- religious or not --are fine with evolution. But as the article I linked shows... America is an outlier in many ways. Because of the freedom of religion... some very virulent strains of religion and religious thinking have evolved.

And when people think that you can know things through "faith", then all the evidence in the world doesn't matter. When people think that what you "believe" determines your ETERNITY, then belief becomes more important than the truth.
 
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Regarding the same cell part, from experience I can say most Americans don't know.


But are most Americans atheists or are most atheists Americans?


There may be some truth to this as it turns out our science and math education in this country has become woefully poor. This is partly due to a general devaluing that americans have placed on technical knowledge and skill. It is common in america for people to doubt scientists, doctors, engineers by labeling them "so-called experts". However, they give extra weight to charlatans whose only critique of science is "science doesn't know everything" As such, people believe that herbals are cure-alls, that eastern medicine has magical knowledge western medicine is to dumb to know, and ID is equivalent to evolution.

But note that you still have failed to prove that most atheists don't know evolutionary theory.


A sad truth, but I have found skeptics in general and atheists in particular tend and continue to educate themselves and quite effectively. Of course I can not demonstrate that but I am merely using DOC’s “from experience” criteria for the reliability of such observations presented on this thread.
 
Regarding the same cell part, from experience I can say most Americans don't know.

Most Americans describe themselves as at least nominally Christian (according to certain polls).

Thus, your point really should be that most Christians don't know what science says about our origins.

And with that point, I can certainly and sadly agree.
 
Now he might be a troll. ;) His responses to me on a variety of subjects have the same tenor. Kinda': Your wrong because everybody else sees the facts that you can't see because your wrong.


Same soup, different bowl. :)

You do know that a Gnome is a troll?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gnome

No soup just the empty bowls you make from your own inclinations and do not even bother to fill.
 
There is evidence that within the U.S. strong disparities in religious belief versus acceptance of evolution are correlated with similarly varying rates of societal dysfunction, the strongly theistic, anti-evolution south and mid-west having markedly worse homicide, mortality, STD, youth pregnancy, marital and related problems than the northeast where societal conditions, secularization, and acceptance of evolution approach European norms (Aral and Holmes; Beeghley, Doyle, 2002).

http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.html

Scientific ignorance is correlated with social dysfunction which may account for some of our forums more "socially dysfunctional" members. :)
 
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You do know that a Gnome is a troll?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gnome

No soup just the empty bowls you make from your own inclinations and do not even bother to fill.

I prefer this definition: a short pithy saying expressing a general truth. It is my name after all.

Did you know that you seem to not understand English or how to use a dictionary. One does not get to define the words others use at their whim. I think this may by why you can do nothing more than tell me I am wrong on every subject as you follow me about the forum. Shoo, shoo little puppy, find a fire hydrant to pee on.
 
By Creationism, I assume you mean the Abrahamic version...

If so, please remember that pretty much half the world lives in just two countries (China and India)

I have a hunch this might have some bearing on the overall popularity... but what do I know?

I was reading the claim as "In most countries, creationism is not given credence by a majority." I was considering creationism to be 'created by a god,' but even if you limit it to Abrahamic deities....

Given that South America is one giant Catholic churchyard, that's a large chunk of countries. Large parts of Africa are fundi, either Christian or Islamic depending on the location, with some older religion still hanging around. That's another chunk. Then you have the Middle East, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Muslims in India who have numbers equal to half the US population.

I think claiming global enlightenment is premature. Just sayin'
 
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