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Transhumanism

sinclairmcevoy said:
It all sounds too good to be true. If you really believe that this is something that will be provided to the masses, you're way out in left field.
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It will be provided to everyone, if only because anyone to whom it is not provided will cease to be.
 
sinclairmcevoy said:
It all sounds too good to be true. If you really believe that this is something that will be provided to the masses, you're way out in left field.
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Three hundred years ago they would have said the same about reliable medical care. One hundred years ago they would have said the same about the automobile. Fifty years ago, no one would have believed it of the computer. Twenty years ago, very few would have forseen the availability of plastic surgery.

Of course it will be provided to the masses. Genetic engineering is the cheapest thing in the world, once you figure out how you want to do it. It's all research costs.
 
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Prometheus said:
Thank you, and yes I'm definitely interested.
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Cool! I'm a bit of a science fiction fan, so this is a fun, eclectic list.

Metaplanetary by Tony Daniel is a great place to read more. An enjoyable read with some deep thought. Characters are a little shallow would be my major complaint.

Altered Carbon by Richard K. Morgan plays with the possibilities of recording and recreating yourself.

Steel Beach by John Varley deals with a future without Earth - and the fact that we lost Earth to alien invaders is entirely incidental. If that doesn't intrigue you, it deals with immortality and the dangers of complacency, in regards to one very strange journalist, a computer heading off the deep end, and a lot of crazy people. Quite fun.

The Diamond Age: A Young Ladies Illustrated Primer by Neil Stephenson - I'm not sure this counts as strictly transhumanist. I'm pretty sure it counts as strictly awesome, and explores a whole lot of territory.

Also, if you happen to enjoy webcomics, I recommend Dresden Codak. It's a slightly less serious look, but anywhere that comes up with 'The Future Preenactment Society' and "Pretend to be a Time Traveler" day can't be bad.

It really doesn't help Vinge, IMHO, that he's a weak writer, and frankly the singularity scares the crap out of me. I don't really think there's a hope that something like that would be anything resembling benevolent - its motivations would be beyond inscrutable after a short time.
 
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GreyICE said:
Knees, limited lifespan, crappy mental abilities, sleep is just a horrible idea, and don't even get me started on the throat/windpipe situation. That one is just bad.

There's plenty of basic improvements we could make in general without ever getting near compromising the flexibility. The only real impact would probably be an increased calorie requirement, not an issue in this day and age.
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You forgot the size of the most important bit :cool:.
 
What's a brain peel? Where did that one come from? This ever been done?

Jesus who would want to put their consciousness in a computer. I like having it in my head!
 
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GreyICE said:
Let me just say that its incredibly obvious that there are numerous design flaws in the human body, and anyone who glorifies it as anything other than a rather obnoxious meat shell severely lacking in basic capability is delusional about the quality of the 'design.'
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You paint two extremes. I fit neither. There are design flaws. Still, we've gone to the moon, lived in just about every corner of the world, adapted our environment to fit our needs and done some pretty remarkable things. We've got a few things going for us.
 
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RandFan said:
You paint two extremes. I fit neither. There are design flaws. Still, we've gone to the moon, lived in just about every corner of the world, adapted our environment to fit our needs and done some pretty remarkable things. We've got a few things going for us.
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All of which, I might add, are a result of our minds rather than body design.

If you want to argue that our body design led to evolution of better minds, then that is a fair point. But don't try to suggest that any of the "remarkable" things humans have accomplished is in any way a result of our body design.

Even things like running a marathon have more to do with will than physique.
 
rocketdodger said:
All of which, I might add, are a result of our minds rather than body design.

If you want to argue that our body design led to evolution of better minds, then that is a fair point. But don't try to suggest that any of the "remarkable" things humans have accomplished is in any way a result of our body design.

Even things like running a marathon have more to do with will than physique.
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In what way are our minds separate from our body "design"?
 
GreyICE said:
Honestly, the major reasons for transhumanism are simple.

First, our environment. We're horribly maldapted to our current environment. There's lots of problems with being essentially hunter-gatherers in an urban, industrial environment. Changing our bodies and our minds could solve lots of those.

The second is the singularity. Frankly, we have only three real choices in the long run - stop developing and hope nothing kick starts the singularity, try to BECOME the singularity, or sit back and hope its benevolent. I really don't like the two options that boil down to 'cross your fingers.'
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Pretty shallow thinking.

I'm not impressed.
 
rocketdodger said:
All of which, I might add, are a result of our minds rather than body design.
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What percentage of the worlds animals could replicate our accomplishments assuming they had comparable brain power? Nothing in our design has precluded us from reaching our goals. Including our brains and damn straight that the brain is an important part of our body. The mind is nothing more than the brain. A body part.

There is no homunculus. I say that as a former passionate dualist.
 
Complexity said:
Pretty shallow thinking.

I'm not impressed.
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Your lack of impression hurts me to the bone. Since you've wounded me so critically, you can stop vomiting all over this thread, or you can try and post something constructive. Or, most likely, you'll just produce another deeply barbed statement full of brevity and wit, the likes of which has rarely been posted, which will hurt me to the depths of my non-existent soul.
 
RandFan said:
What percentage of the worlds animals could replicate our accomplishments assuming they had comparable brain power? Nothing in our design has precluded us from reaching our goals. Including our brains and damn straight that the brain is an important part of our body. The mind is nothing more than the brain. A body part.

There is no homunculus. I say that as a former passionate dualist.
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I have the goal of living to at least 500, putting a nice fat kick in the crotch of death, being able to swim underwater for hours without clunky suits and apparatus, understanding the workings of a computer, never forgetting anything important, and removing the effects of hormones and chemicals on my thinking.

Our design needs to move forward if we're going to accomplish this. Medicine has always been about making things less bad. Now we finally have the technology to make things better.
 
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