"Jersey Girls"

[GregoryUrich]

"The Pentagon is probably one of the most protected buildings in the world." - Lorie Van Auken

QED

Lots more here: http://www.911blogger.com/node/14058

Like these:

Question 2: NORAD, the North American Aerospace Defense Command, told the 9/11 independent commission three different stories with regard to their response on 9/11. We still don’t know how NORAD and the FAA interacted or how they actually responded on September 11th. This is because we have never seen any evidence to support the testimony of NORAD and the FAA. All we have is their contradictory testimony which they presented in front of the 9/11 Commission. The almost complete lack of military response to the September 11th attacks has never been adequately explained. In fact, in the book Without Precedent, written by 9/11 Commission Chair Thomas Kean and Vice-Chair Lee Hamilton, they say that the discrepancies that were presented to them by the U.S. military have never been resolved. Thomas Kean has been quoted as saying “We to this day don't know why NORAD told us what they told us," ... "It was just so far from the truth...It's one of those loose ends that never got tied."

Question 10: Who funded the 9/11 attacks? Wouldn’t a real investigation “follow the money” to find the perpetrators? Instead we were told by the 9/11 Commission, that the funding of the attacks were of no real consequence.

 

[chillzero]

This is near entirely assumption. I wonder if you've researched the hard work they did to force the 9/11 Commission, if you're familiar with their infamous meeting with Henry Kissinger. I suspect not.

I'll admit - not in depth, no. However, I feel that they have neglected or ignored too much information and evidence to make their position a viable one. That is a large part of my reasoning that their sense of loss is overwhelming their ability to handle this matter.

False analogy. They're not on any jury. However, their testimony would be a compelling part of a prosecution.

But it shouldn't be.
Their testimony can only be information gained second hand at best, or emotional tribute to their families. Testimony is supposed to rely on facts to determine an outcome, not be swayed by sympathy for the testifier's loss.

I do agree. Your initial comments did raise the level of discourse. My analysis of your comments, I hope, was never acerbic, only a continuation of this important line of reasoning.

I have no issue with how you have discussed this here. I doubt we'll agree on the overall perception that should be allotted this group, but disagreement is fine.

 

[beachnut]

No they should be allowed to call for a grand jury investigation.

Oh, just like the vast amounts of evidence you have to present on 9/11 and you have signed up saying their is overwhelming evidence to support your ideas on 9/11. But as you are in error here is indicative of what you think evidence is; you think hearsay and false information from the mouths of 9/11 truth is evidence. You are unable to recognize evidence in any form on this topic. Your ability to jump to conclusions based on hearsay is proven by your own signatory status, and it appears this lack of evidence illusion is shared by those you say have evidence in this very thread.

You must be careful you seem to fall for hearsay information and treat it as if it were the overwhelming evidence you have signed up saying you have. It seems every so often you foray into areas well beyond the topics where you any real evidence.

Chill had some good points, maybe the best on how to treat the jersey girls, your ideas have not explained much of anything to illuminate the topic. You actually seem to be trying to fight with a mod instead of using your big pile of evidence.

 

[GregoryUrich]

Shouldn't they be expected to understand if one is not considered appropriate by legal experts, and also to comply with the findings should one be undertaken?

Sure, if the investigation is legitimate as opposed to politicized. There were obviously no legal obstacles to the investigations only political ones. A legitimate investigation of the largest terrorist attack in history might require more funding than investigating Bill Clinton's cigar games though. And then they might want to interview potential whistle-blowers. If the lead investigators concluded that a major witness (i.e. NORAD) was lying and didn't do anything about it, how are we supposed to trust their findings.

The Jersy girls bring these legitimate issues to light.

 

[RedIbis]

I'll admit - not in depth, no. However, I feel that they have neglected or ignored too much information and evidence to make their position a viable one. That is a large part of my reasoning that their sense of loss is overwhelming their ability to handle this matter.
.

Please watch this relatively short video til the end. It's gutwrenching, but I suspect you'll get a better understanding by allowing these women to speak for themselves.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...460&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

 

[SDC]

Oh for heaven's sake! When in doubt, appeal to the Clinton/ Starr investigation. That is the reddest of herrings. It has no relevance to any investigation into 9/11.

You are using the Jersey persons -- 3 individuals, out of thousands of families with personal losses on that day -- to push your agenda. You and they are using their loss to validate your and their claims.

Organize your own investigation. What's stopping you? You can have the Jersey persons as your first witnesses. That'll be convincing.

As to why I say "persons" ... I refuse to call grownups "girls."

 

[Darat]

Please don't abuse your power as a moderator. I gave a legimate hypothetical argument to prove a point that is directly on topic. I.e. the capability of victims thinking clearly. Lack of civil rights is not a crime unless you are the one who doesn't have any.

Members of the Moderating Team have the same freedom to post as any other Member. If you have any comments or complaints regarding the Moderation of this Forum take it to the appropriate section - Forum Management.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[chillzero]

Please watch this relatively short video til the end. It's gutwrenching, but I suspect you'll get a better understanding by allowing these women to speak for themselves.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...460&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

Gutwrenching indeed.
You may have noticed though, that they state themselves that they were asking questions when either grieving, or angry after grieving. It is referred to as 'part of their healing process'.

They had some memory of an incident years before that did not compare with the events at the towers. They didn't like Bush's reaction. And so on. There are also s few pieces of incorrect information in that ahich reduce its credibility - the collapse time; the 'never before happened' canard.

Basically, they had questions. Many people did. Just about everyone on the planet did. However, their status as victims does not give them special ability or knowledge that should allow them to ignore the answers.

 

[DavidJames]

Gutwrenching indeed.
You may have noticed though, that they state themselves that they were asking questions when either grieving, or angry after grieving. It is referred to as 'part of their healing process'.

They had some memory of an incident years before that did not compare with the events at the towers. They didn't like Bush's reaction. And so on. There are also s few pieces of incorrect information in that ahich reduce its credibility - the collapse time; the 'never before happened' canard.

Basically, they had questions. Many people did. Just about everyone on the planet did. However, their status as victims does not give them special ability or knowledge that should allow them to ignore the answers.

Red and the other CTists like the JG's because they mimic their own opinions. As you state, the JG's are just asking questions and provide no evidence to support anything.

Red - Stop asking questions and starting producing evidence. After over 6 years all your team has is questions. Time to stop asking questions and start producing. Are you up to it?

 

[tanabear]

Gutwrenching indeed.
You may have noticed though, that they state themselves that they were asking questions when either grieving, or angry after grieving. It is referred to as 'part of their healing process'.

They had some memory of an incident years before that did not compare with the events at the towers. They didn't like Bush's reaction. And so on. There are also s few pieces of incorrect information in that ahich reduce its credibility - the collapse time; the 'never before happened' canard.

Basically, they had questions. Many people did. Just about everyone on the planet did. However, their status as victims does not give them special ability or knowledge that should allow them to ignore the answers.

Their status as victims does not give them special ability or knowledge. The fact that they spent hundreds of hours researching the topic and the issues surrounding 9/11 does, however. Most people know very little about 9/11. The Jersey Girls were the driving force behind the creation of the 9/11 Commission. They provided the Commission with many questions. Most of them were never answered. So you can't accuse them of not listening to answers when most of their questions went unanswered.

Red and the other CTists like the JG's because they mimic their own opinions. As you state, the JG's are just asking questions and provide no evidence to support anything.

Red - Stop asking questions and starting producing evidence. After over 6 years all your team has is questions. Time to stop asking questions and start producing. Are you up to it?

What is wrong with asking questions? The "debunkers" are bothered by the questions because there have been no good answers forthcoming.

 

[chillzero]

Their status as victims does not give them special ability or knowledge. The fact that they spent hundreds of hours researching the topic and the issues surrounding 9/11 does, however.

I'll certainly give them credit for spending time and effort. However, it does not make my comment about their use of the information irrelevant.

The Jersey Girls were the driving force behind the creation of the 9/11 Commission.

I have seen this stated a few times. Is it true?

They provided the Commission with many questions. Most of them were never answered. So you can't accuse them of not listening to answers when most of their questions went unanswered.

Such as? How many of those questions will ever be answerable? We don't have coverage of every second of what happened in every location that day. Some of the answers have to be from deduction. Also, how many of those questions concern security protected matters?

I doubt that there will ever be an action undertaken that will satisfy them, particularly if they maintain the path they have currently chosen, which goes against the evidence which is available.

 

[Disbelief]

What is wrong with asking questions? The "debunkers" are bothered by the questions because there have been no good answers forthcoming.

What is so tough to understand? CulTists have been given excellent answers, time and time again. Because they refuse to understand these answers is not the fault of the debunkers, but of the CulTists.

 

[WildCat]

What is wrong with asking questions?

The questions have been answered, over and over and over again.

The "debunkers" are bothered by the questions because there have been no good answers forthcoming.

There's your real problem: You want "good" answers. And by that, of course, you mean you will accept nothing short of INSIDEJOB!!1!!!!!!11

You don't like the answers, prove them wrong. So far, 6 and a half years after 9/11, all you have is crap like "north of the Citgo", "thermite cuts" no truther has been able to demonstrate are even possible, contentions that the mountains of evidence that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon is all faked, demolition charges in WTC 1, 2, and 7 that for some reason cannot be heard on any recording, a list of conspirators that is at least 10,000 people long but for some reason no one has spilled the beans yet out of conscience, "pull it", space beams, thermite, "scientific papers" that have yet to be published in a real science journal, a complete lack of relevant experts to back up your ridiculous claims, a plane the size of a mini-van that swooped under a power line and crashed at Shanksville fooling all at the scene who mistook it for a 757, claims of planted body parts, plane parts etc, etc.

Your entire movement is a joke.

 

[DavidJames]

What is wrong with asking questions? The "debunkers" are bothered by the questions because there have been no good answers forthcoming.

Others have responded with good answers but I'll add this.

I often compare you guys with my kids when they were very young, in that like them you guys ask the same questions over and over again, either because you can't remember the answers or, more likely, don't like the answers.

But here is where you and my kids differ. My kids grew up and learned to think on their own. They learned to do research and find their own answers. My kids learned that maybe they needed to look beyond their own knowledge or the what their friends told them. They learned they have to do honest research to find honest answers.

You guys have some growing up to do.

 

[Pardalis]

Please watch this relatively short video til the end. It's gutwrenching, but I suspect you'll get a better understanding by allowing these women to speak for themselves.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...460&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

So are you LIHOP or MIHOP?

At some point you should make up your mind, since both positions are incompatible.

Seems to me you just want the US to be guilty, whatever the outcome is.

 

[Cicero]

The reason why the Jersey Devils have zero credibility, aside form their 911 "truth" grunion parroting, is that they garnered undo attention to protest the $1.6 million average 911 victims settlement, which they considered paltry. But even after they were successful in raising the payout, they could not bare for the spotlight to dim on their countenances, hence their continued fight for celebrity by using the deaths of their spouses as a springboard. In the words of Breitweiser: "We simply wanted to know why our husbands were killed and why they went to work one day and didn't come back."

It appears this women saw a conspriacy of epic proportions that targeted her husband in particular.

But as to the notion that everybody in ancient times figured the world was flat, one need only watch a ship with a tall mast sail out to sea and notice that the entire ship does not disappear from sight at the same time, but that the top of ship's mast is the last to disappear from sight because of the curvature of the earth.

 

[jhunter1163]

I lost a close friend in the North Tower on 9/11. We weren't married or anything, but her death probably saddened me more than any other during my life, except for my parents.

Today, 6 1/2 years on, the thought of her still saddens me, but I've accepted it and moved on. As another poster mentioned above, at some point you have to.

It discourages me to see these women wearing their status as 9/11 widows on their sleeves. They seem to feel that it gives them immunity from any kind of criticism, and the Truth movement is quick to hide behind their skirts. "You can't say anything about "9/11 Press For Truth" because you're BEING MEAN TO 9/11 WIDOWS!!!111!!!!ELEVEN!!"

I believe that constantly rehashing the events of 9/11 is, if anything, hindering the Jersey Girls' grieving process. The time has come for them to just let it go. I say this as one who, unfortunately, knows.

 

[tanabear]

I'll certainly give them credit for spending time and effort. However, it does not make my comment about their use of the information irrelevant.

I have seen this stated a few times. Is it true?.

This is what Thomas Kean said about the Jersey Girls, "They call me all the time. They monitor us, they follow our progress, they've supplied us with some of the best questions we've asked. I doubt very much if we would be in existence without them."

Such as? How many of those questions will ever be answerable? We don't have coverage of every second of what happened in every location that day. Some of the answers have to be from deduction. Also, how many of those questions concern security protected matters?

The Jersey Girls estimated that about 70% of their questions were not answered or adequately addressed. Here is a sample:

- Why didn't the CIA share vital information about the terrorists with the FBI?

- Why weren’t all suspected terrorists and wanted terrorists placed on watch lists to prevent them from entering our country? Why wasn’t this information shared with the INS guarding our borders?

- As Commander-in-Chief on the morning of 9/11, why didn’t you return immediately to Washington, D.C. or the National Military Command Center once you became aware that America was under attack? At specifically what time did you become aware that America was under attack? Who informed you of this fact?

- 9/11 hijackers, Mohammed Atta and Marwan Alshehhi both received I-20 "Vocational" visas from Huffman Aviation. The OIG report indicates that the school should not have been allowed to issue this type of visa ... Why did the INS certify Huffman aviation as a full time vocational school?

- What were the findings and conclusions of the FBI/U.S. Customs investigation code- named Operation Greenquest?

- Why was Saudi Arabia given preferential treatment above all other
nations in immigration? (Visa Express). What was the reason for creating the Visa Express?

- What is the truth about the arrest of El Atriss who sold fake IDs to two 9/11 terrorists? There are discrepancies between the NY Times and WashingtonPost accounts of his arrest and release.

Etc...

 

[jhunter1163]

CIA and FBI didn't share information because it was illegal for them to do so. Google "Jamie Gorelick" or use the search function here for more information.

 

[gc051360]

So are you LIHOP or MIHOP?

At some point you should make up your mind, since both positions are incompatible.

Seems to me you just want the US to be guilty, whatever the outcome is.

A lot of truthers take the position, of not picking a side. When they can't defend their insane CD theories, is when they become LIHOP, only to post some more MIHOP a few days later.