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This is the Government that You Want to Run Health-care?

jimbob said:
If life expectancy isn't a measure of health, what is a better proxy?
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Do those statistics account for the gun deaths caused by the drug war in America? You do know that those people die at quite a young age which will skew the results down.
 
Architect said:
First of all, JimBob seems to have done a perfectly acceptable job in supporting the case for - at the very least - comparable levels of healthcare in Canada and Europe. I'll happily leave that to him.
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I didn't think you would.

Secondly, you now need to substantiate your assertion that we've only done so on the back of purloined wealth from former colonies. Which should be particularly difficult for you in the case of Canada, I should think.
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You have again evidenced that you are not reading what I right.

For Canada, I gave a different reason for their ability to pay for their socialized heath-care system. Do you know what I said?
 
jimbob said:
Jerome, can't you at least post back to your original opost claiming evidence, or is it of the level of the "free market pixie" with no supporting evidence for the statement.
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The origin of this thread was the ineffective social security system and its abuse of citizens forced to be members. The question was why would any want this same system for health-care.
 
JEROME DA GNOME said:
The origin of this thread was the ineffective social security system and its abuse of citizens forced to be members. The question was why would any want this same system for health-care.
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The definition of "ineffective" apparently being that we live longer and pay less.

:boggled:

Been through a looking-glass lately, old chum?
 
Fitter said:
I know, I know!! Something for which you provided zero evidence.
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Wrong. I provided evidence. It was just waved away.


There is a game played on this forum when one in in the minority opinion. The way it works is evidence is demanded for overt facts, when such evidence is provided it is waved away and stated that no evidence has been provided.
 
Jerome

Some reading for you.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=+1]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]A Comparison of the USA Health Care Effort with other OECD Countries[/FONT]

[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]EDUARD GRACIA [/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]University of Barcelona[/FONT]

[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]JOAN GIL [/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]University of Barcelona - Department of Economic Theory [/FONT]

[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Hacienda Publica Espanola, Vol. 161, No. 2, 2002, Instituto de Estudios Fiscales, [/FONT]

[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Abstract: [/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]We use a sample of OECD countries in order to better understand why the US health care expenditure as a percentage of its Gross Domestic Product ("health care effort") is so far above any other. To this end we employ a descriptive cross-country methodology based partially on econometric estimations, synthetic indicators and the Lerner's formula of market power, that allows us to dismiss as explanatory variables all those factors that were not differential across the sample. We advance the exploratory hypothesis that the availability of a universal public health coverage would increase the price elasticity of demand and thus would reduce the control of prices by the suppliers. [/FONT]
​
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​

​
[/SIZE][/FONT]​
 
JEROME DA GNOME said:
You need proof that people dying at a young age brings down the life expectancy statistic.
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Didn't do statistics at school, eh? Bummer for you.

You need to prove that the numbers of those dying young are sufficiently different from the comparable figures for other countries in order to demonstrate a statistical correlation.

However if you're uncomfortable with total life expenctancy as a benchmark why don't we look at (say) infant mortality. Or other primary indicators?

Or do you think they'll be just as bad news for you as the details JimBob posted?
 
Tell you what Jerome, why don't you check out those infant mortality details. You'll love them as an indicator of the "success" of US healthcare. Note the way that Canada, Europe, Oz, and NZ all do better despite.

In the meantime:
This was all I needed to read to understand that the conclusions were massaged.

Did you read it? What were the conclusions?
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I foolishly assumed that, having made your opening assertion about the impact of social healthcare policies, you would have looked into this. Unfortunately I had assumed a rather more analytical and methodical approach than seems to be the case.
 
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Architect said:
Tell you what Jerome, why don't you check out thos infant mortality details
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So, you did not read the evidence you posted and you do not know what its conclusions are.

I thought you were educating me on how to participate on this forum. I guess just random google without review is acceptable.
 
Oh, Jerome, I have the figures to hand for 2007...and produced by the US. Let's see if you can actually do some research for yourself, for change.

Of course if you can produce the statistics on gun releated deaths betwixt the US and the UK then I'll be more than happy to reciprocate with the mortality figures. But the thing is, I don't think that you can do that kind of graft - instead you just prefer to mouth off.

Show me wrong. On you go.
 
Architect said:
Oh, Jerome, I have the figures to hand for 2007...and produced by the US. Let's see if you can actually do some research for yourself, for change.

Of course if you can produce the statistics on gun releated deaths betwixt the US and the UK then I'll be more than happy to reciprocate with the mortality figures. But the thing is, I don't think that you can do that kind of graft - instead you just prefer to mouth off.

Show me wrong. On you go.
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What is a GRAFT in this context?


ETA: For someone acting so petulant concerning the proper way one should post on this forum...
 
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JEROME DA GNOME said:
You need proof that people dying at a young age brings down the life expectancy statistic.

:dl:
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Are people shooting babies as they're being born to account for the higher infant mortality?

And I really doubt that the differences in homicide rates account for a more than a tiny fraction of the lower life expectancy.

The US health care system is a sick joke, and getting worse.
 
JEROME DA GNOME said:
Do those statistics account for the gun deaths caused by the drug war in America? You do know that those people die at quite a young age which will skew the results down.
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Will they indeed?

You need to provide evidence that the proportion of young people dying through violent means is so much greater in the USA than in these other countries as to make a significant difference to the statistics.

Oh yes, and what Wildcat said about the infant mortality statistics.

Rolfe.
 
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Rolfe said:
Will they indeed?

You need to provide evidence that the proportion of young people dying through violent means is so much greater in the USA than in these other countries as to make a significant difference to the statistics.

Oh yes, and what Wildcat said about the infant mortality statistics.

Rolfe.
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I see, someone makes a claim and I have to give evidence that the claim is unfounded.


Looks like the burden is on me always.

Silly, silly games.
 
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