The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2006
- Messages
- 36,416
A John already infected with AIDS or some other STD won't object to penetration. And how's the prostitute to know he's infected?
The risks are lessened by the maximum amount when safe sex is practised and prostitution is legal and regulated.
I agree with meg: if legal prostitution is to work at all, both prostitutes and clients need to be tested for STDs. If this isn't done, the whole thing backfires:
"In 1986, the Victorian Labour government legalized brothels, claiming crime would be eliminated, prostitutes' lives would be made safer, and there would be fewer health risks. None of this happened.
Organized crime had a field day in Victoria, with gangs fighting for control of the sex and drug trades with four or five gang leaders controlling the entire prostitution "industry". Sexually transmitted diseases (STD) and AIDS increased. This was due to the fact that medical authorities examined only one of the partners in the sex act, which was self-defeating."
(see http://www.realwomenca.com/newsletter/2005_mar_apr/article_6.html)
But you left out the important last sentence in the paragraph you quoted:
The number of street prostitutes increased because legislation gave legitimacy to the idea that sex is acceptable outside of close relationships.
Next...
So I see no reason why your daughter could not be both!
Now that's just cruel.
I do not argue this is always the case but to suggest that the reality is empowering or that people can just earn college money and then leave was not true for that woman at least.
This was a prostitute working legally or illegally? How would her situation have differed (other than earning a lot less money) if the only job she could get was a night-shift cleaner at a hospital?
For those of you who have said you do not mind if your daughters become prostitutes may I ask if you are equally sanguine about raising your grandchildren and explaining to them that this is because their mother had been "empowered"?
Ooh! I know, why don't I introduce a really, really irrelevant strawman!
Ah, but you have forgotten that the only thing making them expensive currently is because they are illegal.
Nope. Prices have on average probably dropped by 10-20%.
Evidence?
You're not thinking very hard, Atheist, if you can't think of any reasons why a brothel owner wouldn't prefer slaves to indepedent, law savvy employees. Trafficking into the Netherlands has increased since they legalized prostitution. They are engaging in big $$ programs now to attempt to combat it.
Well, I did give you the obvious one - why look to slightly improved gains at the expense of jail? Sure, some people will try it, but the same or worse may have happened without the legality. Holland is also a somewhat special case due to sex tourism.
Prostitution is legal in many countries. If legalised prostitution was a worse option than keeping it illegal, there seems to be a very small number of facts to support that idea. Not to mention that what your data tells us is that the regulation of the industry is suspect rather the industry itself.
Again, do you have some evidence that legal brothels make the profession safer for the prostitutes? Please show it.
From the above Bulgaria article:
Well, you've forced me to simply trump your single Bulgarian anecdote with the entire New Zealand Prostitutes' Collective!
As the money she has earned illegally is unknown to assistance agencies, she still is as eligible for assistance as any other woman with no income.
Whoa! I hope you meant what you said there - you're saying it's better for the woman to break the law, because then she can compound the crime by claiming welfare at the same time!
Have you ever asked her if she could have earned the money to help her turn her life around doing something other than prostitution, would she have?
Yes indeed. She credits the support of her fellows hookers with being a huge part of it. Whether that could have been replicated, the answer is probably yes, so if you're happy to bet her life that you would have turned her around another way, keep going.
And many hooker stories are filled with violence and abuse. Are you prepared to deal realistically with that?
Decriminalization of prostitution by itself does nothing to better the lives and working environments of those that do it, nor does it combat the very real problem of human trafficking. Only laws specifically aimed at protecting prostitutes will protect prostitutes. Only laws specifically aimed at human traffickers will stop human trafficking.
Rubbish. We have laws that protect against assault and trafficking that exist in sufficient strength to be able to deal with them. That they don't is not the problem of legalised prostitution. This has so many similarities to abortion or marijuana debates; "if one, then the other..." Life doesn't usually work in the neat little compartments we like. Prostitution isn't going to go away - legalising it, just as marijuana and abortion have, enables regulation to be imposed. If the system doesn't work, is it because the system is being applied incorrectly, or because it's flawed in itself?
If you want to argue for legalization of prostution, I want to hear what proposals you would make that actually would help to stop the abuses that occur. I hear you that you think anyone that wants to be a prostitute should be able to be one. I think that's fine, actually. What I think is a more fundamental human right, though, is that no one should be prostituted against their will. And no one should have to prostitute themselves to survive.
Here, we agree entirely. The proposal for stopping abuse already exists, it just isn't being applied.