Should prostitution be legalized?

[steverino]

Well over 95% of hookers here are legal and do it for financial reasons. They realise there's money in then thar valleys and take it. I have a friend who runs a fairly large "establishment" and her girls put it very simply - "I can work 40 hours in an office for maybe $700. I can make double that in two nights."

I think what Pardalis means, as I do, is that to work in an office is to work. To let a stranger insert himself into your vagina for money, even if it pays more, is not "work" in the same sense. And the fact that even you are putting the word "establishment" in quotes indicates that you are giving it a stigma as a place of business compared to an office building "establishment" that pays its "girls" $700 a a week.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Neither do I. It would actually be a very good idea to put a stop to "young men (...) killing other people", in particular the legal kind of killing that the state pays soldiers to do!

Good luck. How are you gonna stop it, my neo-pacifist friend? Will you cry hard enough that they will feel sorry for you? On your way to attempting that, tell me the secret of what women want. The Mahdi army is made up of young men who urinate on sentiments such as yours. They are not unique in this world.

Check your survival skills. You need a tune up.

Then, in an effort to accomplish something other than banging your virtual gums, get out of your Ivory Tower and join the rest of the world.

Marx, your hero, advocated a violent revolution. That violent revolution is the process of young and old men killing other young and old men, and sundry others who happen to be in the way, to overthrow and change the world to a paradise of one party, the self appointed right thinking people.

Hyopcrite, still, dann?

No, not a hypocrite. That's not the right term.

You don't understand your own position's basis well enough to know when you've stepped on your own lizard.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

If it did, Paris Hilton would be illegal.

No sir, she is legal, of age.

Even if I were single, not with yours, Beeps, not with much of anyone's.

She's someone else's problem.

 

[dann]

Your opinion on this particular war doesn't invalidate the usefulness of the military as a whole.

Did I ever say that an army of young men killing foreigners (primarily) wasn't useful? I think the state knows very well why it pays them and drills them to the extent that many of them will never be useful for anything else ...
And "this particular war" is not the only one that stinks.

 

[Damien Evans]

I believe it already is legal and regulated here, but I voted for that anyway.

 

[dann]

Good luck. How are you gonna stop it, my neo-pacifist friend? Will you cry hard enough that they will feel sorry for you? On your way to attempting that, tell me the secret of what women want. The Mahdi army is made up of young men who urinate on sentiments such as yours. They are not unique in this world.

And if they are not unique, I guess that you need to join them, in your opinion, at least as far as the "sentiments" are concerned.

Check your survival skills. You need a tune up.

Nothing wrong with them, thank you. I'm in better shape than most. And I am definitely in better shape than most former army guys. Being an objector had many advantages, but I guess you would not understand the idea of objecting to being at the beck and call of your state, imagining yourself quite the hero of masculinity because you are unable to think one sensible thought of your own.

Then, in an effort to accomplish something other than banging your virtual gums, get out of your Ivory Tower and join the rest of the world.

I have accomplished plenty, thank you.

Marx, your hero, advocated a violent revolution. That violent revolution is the process of young and old men killing other young and old men, and sundry others who happen to be in the way, to overthrow and change the world to a paradise of one party, the self appointed right thinking people.

When? Where? He advocated overthrowing a society that condemns an awful lot of people to poverty and a large minority (on a global scale the majority) to utter hopelessness and in the worst cases even hunger (which makes the world the perfect breeding ground for not only prostitution, but religion and superstition too!), and he did not expect the priviliged classes to give up their privileges voluntarily. Not that they would fight the battle themselves. They were always very much like Bush in that respect.
This is one point where the ruling classes do not appear to shy any costs. The rest of the time they are very careful about not spending a dime too many on the people who work for them.
The high ideals that they allegedly fight for is a different matter. They are definitely out of this world!

Hyopcrite, still, dann?

No, not a hypocrite. That's not the right term.

No, you are right, it isn't.

You don't understand your own position's basis well enough to know when you've stepped on your own lizard.

And so I need to be told by you???

When pompous macho bravado is all you have to offer?

 

[The Atheist]

I think what Pardalis means, as I do, is that to work in an office is to work. To let a stranger insert himself into your vagina for money, even if it pays more, is not "work" in the same sense. And the fact that even you are putting the word "establishment" in quotes indicates that you are giving it a stigma as a place of business compared to an office building "establishment" that pays its "girls" $700 a a week.

On that basis, I assume that singing, dancing, digging holes and rubbish collecting aren't "work" either?

The "establishment" was just me being funny. It's a brothel and a place of work exactly as a fishing boat, a factory or a bus is a place of work. Don't be fooled into thinking it's easy money. When you've just tied some bloke's wedding tackle in a pair of your tights, screwing them up as tightly as possible while pretending you're his mother, I think that classifies as "work"!

She's someone else's problem.

Nah. Someone Else's Problems are invisible. Invisible, she ain't.

I believe it already is legal and regulated here, but I voted for that anyway.

It's been legal for a very long time in Melbourne. It must be 20 years ago that I used to see ads for legal Melbourne brothels in my some bloke's Penthouse.

 

[BPSCG]

Don't know if I heard this correctly on the TV last night, or how accurate it is, but it would appear Client 9's hooker put a new song out there yesterday for downloading at $0.90 a pop, and she had close to a million downloads last night.

And Penthouse magazine is negotiating about having her on a cover.

And I'm hearing on the news this am that her supposed history of abuse as a child may not be true. Seems some of the abuse she suffered was not getting a new car after she'd cracked up her stepfather's Porsche.

I'm sure details will follow in due course.

 

[Magyar]

While I can't for the LIFE of me understand what would make a man go to a prostitute - not because of any moral issues - much less spend $1000's of dollars for one. The Govt should not regulate stupidity. As for the assertions that "ALL" prostitutes are abused and are forced into it I counter with the HBO show Bunny Ranch! In case you're not familiar - In Nevada where prostitution is legal in some counties there is a brothel called bunny ranch. The place gets literally 1000s of applicants from all walks of life and all over the country from women who are not prostitutes nwo(before the go to this place) are not poor or drug addicts. They just want to do this - while money is certainly a prime reason - it seems not the only one. They can come or go and some only do it for a short time others stay.

Now you can argue about the morality of it, but there is NO WAY you can claim that there are not some women who not only enjoy but are impowered by doing this.

 

[Polaris]

I don't think that's a case of "illegal begets illegal," I think that's just a case of someone's addiction getting out of control. It's relatively common to see people stealing to support their crack, crystal meth, or heroin habit, but I'd wager a decent chunk of money that not a lot of people commit armed robbery so they can buy more weed.

That depends on the illegal activity, wouldn't you say? I routinely drive faster than the posted speed limit, but I don't think that says much about my "moral compass." Ditto for Carl Sagan's marijuana use.

Not to mention Oscar Wilde's homosexuality.

And Jack Johnson's "violating" the Mann Act by having his (white) girlfriend cross state lines to see him.

And Tommy Chong's selling water pipes on the internet.

And Henry David Thoreau's refusal to pay poll taxes.

All very monstrously immoral people right?

 

[Island Skeptic]

If prostitutes were offered an occupation in which they could earn equally as much money without having to have intercourse with utter strangers (and throw in any rehabilitation and counseling that they may require), and they should turn that opportunity down, then i might listen.

I would gamble that most (if not all) prostitutes would grab the opportunity of getting out of that business -without a moment of hesitation.

Prostitution is by no means "empowering" for a woman.
What an oxymoron!

The fact of the matter is that most prostitutes wind up (or start off) as drug addicts and/or alcoholics, most come from an impoverished and poorly educated backgrounds, and most have suffered some form of abuse as a child.

Do you want to further injure the already injured?
Kick her while she is already down?

If so, then go ahead and throw in your virtual vote to legalize prostitution. However, i might suggest that you spend at least one week in a prostitute's shoes prior to making that vote.

**If you are a man: keep in mind that you will have to "perform" for women and men of all shapes and sizes (and odors), coming to you with all types of fetishes that may not be agreeable to you. But hey, that's business. Enjoy!

 

[Professor Yaffle]

If prostitutes were offered an occupation in which they could earn equally as much money without having to have intercourse with utter strangers (and throw in any rehabilitation and counseling that they may require), and they should turn that opportunity down, then i might listen.

I would gamble that most (if not all) prostitutes would grab the opportunity of getting out of that business -without a moment of hesitation.

Prostitution is by no means "empowering" for a woman.
What an oxymoron!

The fact of the matter is that most prostitutes wind up (or start off) as drug addicts and/or alcoholics, most come from an impoverished and poorly educated backgrounds, and most have suffered some form of abuse as a child.

Do you want to further injure the already injured?
Kick her while she is already down?

If so, then go ahead and throw in your virtual vote to legalize prostitution. However, i might suggest that you spend at least one week in a prostitute's shoes prior to making that vote.

**If you are a man: keep in mind that you will have to "perform" for women and men of all shapes and sizes (and odors), coming to you with all types of fetishes that may not be agreeable to you. But hey, that's business. Enjoy!

But you seem to be automatically assuming that making/keeping something illegal is better for those involved than making it legal. I am not at all convinced by that.

 

[kosai]

If prostitutes were offered an occupation in which they could earn equally as much money without having to have intercourse with utter strangers (and throw in any rehabilitation and counseling that they may require), and they should turn that opportunity down, then i might listen.

Uhh... The offer is already there. They can go to medical school and become a doctor and make even more. Yes, it will take hard work and more than simply being alive to do the job and make that kind of money, but so goes life.

I would gamble that most (if not all) prostitutes would grab the opportunity of getting out of that business -without a moment of hesitation.

Prostitution is by no means "empowering" for a woman.
What an oxymoron!

The fact of the matter is that most prostitutes wind up (or start off) as drug addicts and/or alcoholics, most come from an impoverished and poorly educated backgrounds, and most have suffered some form of abuse as a child.

Do you want to further injure the already injured?
Kick her while she is already down?

Everything above is speculation based on the pre-conceived ideas of what you think of when you think of a hooker. The statistics you mention are for CURRENT prostitutes, if it were a legal profession I think you would see an increase of more "normal" women joining the trade. Right now you have a decision in which you know the profession you are going to join is illegal, this attracts people who do not mind doing illegal things. Also, the money produced could be used to help those women (or men) who seek it.

If so, then go ahead and throw in your virtual vote to legalize prostitution. However, i might suggest that you spend at least one week in a prostitute's shoes prior to making that vote.

**If you are a man: keep in mind that you will have to "perform" for women and men of all shapes and sizes (and odors), coming to you with all types of fetishes that may not be agreeable to you. But hey, that's business. Enjoy!

Nonsense, no legal prostitute (where they exist) is forced to "perform" with any client. It works as a trade agreement, she can set the price higher for those she doesn't want to sleep with OR simply reject them. This is a brothel not a sex slave operation.

 

[The Atheist]

If prostitutes were offered an occupation in which they could earn equally as much money without having to have intercourse with utter strangers (and throw in any rehabilitation and counseling that they may require), and they should turn that opportunity down, then i might listen.

I would gamble that most (if not all) prostitutes would grab the opportunity of getting out of that business -without a moment of hesitation.

Um, no.

The problem is that for your attempted point to be a point you'd have to show that jobs exist which can provide the same income for the same skill-set. Acting would be about the only one and last time I checked, acting jobs usually draw plenty of applicants. The bad news is, those jobs don't exist.

The fact of the matter is that most prostitutes wind up (or start off) as drug addicts and/or alcoholics, most come from an impoverished and poorly educated backgrounds, and most have suffered some form of abuse as a child.

Well, since those are the facts of the matter, please do show the evidence which makes it factual.

Do you want to further injure the already injured?
Kick her while she is already down?

If so, then go ahead and throw in your virtual vote to legalize prostitution. However, i might suggest that you spend at least one week in a prostitute's shoes prior to making that vote.

And how many weeks did you spend in those prostitute's shoes? When the legalisation of prostitutes bill was being debated in NZ's Parliament, which side of the debate do you think the New Zealand Prostitutes' Collective supported? The NZPC is a welfare organisation for prostitutes, providing free healthcare, condoms and legal aid to prostitutes. It is staffed and run by current and former prostitutes.

They supported the legalisation of prostitution.

Whose shoes do you think they were wearing?

**If you are a man: keep in mind that you will have to "perform" for women and men of all shapes and sizes (and odors), coming to you with all types of fetishes that may not be agreeable to you. But hey, that's business. Enjoy!

I'm not sure what your point is above, but overall, I think your attitude amounts to little more than crapping all over your sisters who choose prostitution as a way of life. You call them dumb, drug addicts and abuse victims, while claiming to champion their rights as women, protecting them from some bizarre "exploitation" that they are unable to protect themselves from.

Nice. The attitude smacks every bit of the slave owner who "keeps them dumb n*****s because they can'ts look after theyselves". Instead of whining about legalisation of prostitution, try speaking to a few actual prostitutes.

Oh, and by the way - your complete lack of knowledge is showing, because male prostitutes fall into two distinct types whose lines almost never cross: the classical gigolo, who "performs" for a select number of well-off exclusively women clients, and gay prostitutes who have exclusively male clientele. A male prostitute "performing" for both male and female customers is extremely rare. Furthermore, prostitutes can, and do, turn down customers. That's another reason why legality is preferable. If it's legal and the prostitute has a dodgy customer, she can ring the cops. If she's breaking the law herself, there's infinitely less likelihood that she will complain and will probably submit.

Whose side are you on again?

 

[The Atheist]

Uhh... The offer is already there. They can go to medical school and become a doctor and make even more. Yes, it will take hard work and more than simply being alive to do the work and make that kind of money, but so goes life.

That's actually not a sensible path to tread; most women couldn't go and become doctors. Prostitutes aren't necessarily dumb (I know one who is completing an MA Psych while working) but very few would be smart enough for med school.

 

[kosai]

That's actually not a sensible path to tread; most women couldn't go and become doctors. Prostitutes aren't necessarily dumb (I know one who is completing an MA Psych while working) but very few would be smart enough for med school.

I don't know, I think dedication is more important than "smarts." I work in a university and the amount of common sense many PhD's are lacking is often astounding. My *previous* physician was shocked when I denounced magnet therapy and acupuncture as likely hogwash, and he claims he works on the basis of "evidence based medicine" on his website. Smart" is not always a direct term. Maybe to become a doctor is stretching it, but my point was that better jobs (which would suit your talents) will not stop being offered simply because another profession became legal.

 

[pgwenthold]

If prostitutes were offered an occupation in which they could earn equally as much money without having to have intercourse with utter strangers (and throw in any rehabilitation and counseling that they may require), and they should turn that opportunity down, then i might listen.

I'm trying to figure out how that makes it different from a fry cook at McDonalds.

 

[pgwenthold]

most come from an impoverished and poorly educated backgrounds, and most have suffered some form of abuse as a child.

Suppose I grant that as true. Tell me, what does that have to do with question of whether prostitution should be legal?

Making prostitution legal will not change the home in which these women grow up in. Sadly, they will still come from impoverished and poorly educated backgrounds and will ahve suffered some form of abuse. And, in fact, many of them will still go into prostitution.

But how is that any worse than what is happening now? The only difference is that if they go into prostitution, they can go into a situation where they have some protection, and not just from a pimp who controls them.

 

[meg]

I voted Planet X option, because none of my concerns seem to be addressed in any of the voting options.

While there may indeed be some percentage of prostitutes that chose the profession of their own complete and informed free will out of many possibile professions available to them, there is also a percentage of prostitutes that were and are coerced into the job.

What would legalization of prostitution do to help those women?

When I hear arguments for legalization and regulation of prostitution for "disease control", it seems that usually people are just talking about testing the prostitutes for STDs. The assumption seems to be that the client has some right to purchase disease free sex. Shouldn't the sex worker have that same right? In the U.S., more and more cities are going "smoke free" on the grounds that workers' health is endangered by passive smoke inhalation. They are not given the option to "choose" whether they're willing to risk it or not, the government wants to look after us. Shouldn't we look after our sex workers with the same level of concern? It seems to me that the clients should have to show themselves to be disease free prior to being permitted to partake of the "services".

If prostitution is legalized and considered a legitimate profession, should a woman be denied unemployment, welfare, or any other kind of social assistance if she refuses to apply for work at the local brothel?

If prostitution is legalized and considered a legitimate profession, will there be less societal motivation to provide job training, assistance or education to poor women? Would pretty women be denied scholarships or educational assistance because they could (or should?) hook their way through college?

 

[meg]

I voted Planet X option, because none of my concerns seem to be addressed in any of the voting options.

While there may indeed be some percentage of prostitutes that chose the profession of their own complete and informed free will out of many possible professions available to them, there is also a percentage of prostitutes that were and are coerced into the job.

What would legalization of prostitution do to help those women?

When I hear arguments for legalization and regulation of prostitution for "disease control", it seems that usually people are just talking about testing the prostitutes for STDs. The assumption seems to be that the client has some right to purchase disease free sex. Shouldn't the sex worker have that same right? In the U.S., more and more cities are going "smoke free" on the grounds that workers' health is endangered by passive smoke inhalation. They are not given the option to "choose" whether they're willing to risk it or not, the government wants to look after us. Shouldn't we look after our sex workers with the same level of concern? It seems to me that the clients should have to show themselves to be disease free prior to being permitted to partake of the "services".

If prostitution is legalized and considered a legitimate profession, should a woman be denied unemployment, welfare, or any other kind of social assistance if she refuses to apply for work at the local brothel?

If prostitution is legalized and considered a legitimate profession, will there be less societal motivation to provide job training, assistance or education to poor women? Would pretty women be denied scholarships or educational assistance because they could (or should?) hook their way through college?