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AE911Truth Watch

So you assume thermate would cut through a 3 inch cross section of steel Chris? How foolish. Stick with wood Chris because you suck at steel. You do not think the clean up crews would notice that column? Are the clean up crews in on this huge conspiracy too? Your Little fantasy is over.
 
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I’m not particularly interested in debating the minutiae of slag and such with you. However, I find your method – to use an understatement – curious, and worthy of highlight.

Firstly, you have attempted to employ the principle of induction to infer a universal law (oxyacetylene cutting results in the formation of slag on the far surface of the object being cut but never on its near surface) from a single observation (a photograph of an instance of oxyacetylene cutting resulting in the formation of slag on the far surface of the object being cut but not on its near surface).

This is akin to pointing to a single photograph of a red apple and saying “There. So, all apples are red.”

Secondly, you claim that the cut is consistent with either thermite or thermate (I’m not entirely sure which as you switch between the two mid-post). This claim seems to be based solely on the fact that “thermite melts steel”.

So, as you would have it, when it comes to thermite, the fact that it melts steel is a sufficient condition for it to be considered consistent with the observed cutting effect. However, when it comes to oxyacetylene cutting, the same fact – that it melts steel – is an insufficient condition for it to be considered consistent with the observed cutting effect, and further factors (such as the precise ways in which it melts steel) need to be taken into account. Thus, there is an appreciable disparity when it comes to the standards being applied in each case. In short, you are falling foul of the fallacy of special pleading.

Yea. What he said.
 
Actually, ElMondoHummus cherrypicked Mary Schiavo from a list i posted.
She was not as critical as the others but she said the government "knew a lot", and it's failure to immediately launch a criminal investigation when there is an aviation disaster, is unprecedented.

I picked her because I know quite a bit more about her stances than I do of the others. I've been listening to Schiavo's criticisms since well before 9/11. And my point still stands: Her stance is built on governmental and airline industry negligence in security matters leading to the events on 9/11. She directly comes out and discusses the hijackings. She never casts doubt on the events of the day. Yes, she does talk about failures to properly conduct post crash investigations, but read what her criticisms are; her complaints lead towards the "Official Story", and properly including government and industry security failures, not towards doubt regarding the events of the day.

And I did deal with her complaint about not involving the NTSB in the investigation. Read the post again. She has condemned government for not properly allowing them to determine the lapses leading to the hijackings. That hardly places her in the same category as Pentagon fantasists or demolition-believers.

And last: When she says the government "knew a lot", that is also in regards to airline security matters. Read her work; T.A.M. post links several of her interviews, including one from before 9/11. She criticizes the government for "knowing a lot" about where the weaknesses are in preventing people from hijacking airliners, and for knowing a lot about the radical Islamic fringe's desire to continue hijackings. Those are the items government "knew a lot" about.

Again, she's LIHOI. She does not deserve to be lumped in with MIHOP fantasy peddlers. That's the mistake you conspiracy fantasists continue to make. Her criticisms actually have substance, and are built on facts. That is what I'm pointing out, and that is why I singled out Schiavo instead of dealing with the rest of that list. Others can handle that; I'll stick with what I'm actually informed about.
 
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Frankly, I thought you were being kind in singling out Schiavo. You could have, for instance, chosen Morgan Reynolds instead, who is a no-planer and a space-beamer...

Bottom line is that none of those names mean a thing. None of them have produced any faintly legitimate criticism, and at least one is demonstrably insane.
 
You are assuming that.


And why should we assume anything else?

Cutting of steel was carried out during the clean-up. There are pictures of cut steel.

Somehow you make a leap of logic and claim that the picture shows a 'thermite' cut. There is no reason for a 'thermite' cut other than to bolster your 'inside job' 'controlled demolition' fantasy, for which there is not one shred of evidence, but there is a reason for a thermal lance cut to remove steel from GZ after the collapse.

Which is more logical?
 
Who are you to say that someone with a degree in architecture or engineering isn't qualified to look at the evidence and make an educated judgment.

How many qualified people have studied the evidence and the NIST report, and personally gone on record saying they support the NIST conclusions?

It cannot be assumed one way or the other.

Chris I have never read NIST yet I know there were no CD's.

I am assuming nothing.

If the sign says"minefields" it is not a good place to dig for potatoes.
 
Eight people with zero evidence, just talk

Actually, ElMondoHummus cherrypicked Mary Schiavo from a list i posted.
She was not as critical as the others but she said the government "knew a lot", and it's failure to immediately launch a criminal investigation when there is an aviation disaster, is unprecedented.
Eight Senior Republican Appointees Challenge Official Account of 9/11 - "Not Possible", "a Whitewash", "False"
http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_alan_mil_071202_seven_senior_republi.htm
Your whole list is full of pure talk, no evidence to support your ideas, now failed ideas on 9/11.
Paul Craig Roberts, PhD, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Ronald Reagan
Good old hearsay Paul. He said;
Top Gun fighter pilots and career airline pilots who say that the flying attributed to the 9-11 hijackers is beyond the skills of America's best pilots, and foreign dignitaries. Yet he presents hearsay, which I can debunk. I am an instructor pilots in the USAF, and gave upgrade training to pilots in large jets. There is not one thing the terrorist did on 9/11 that a kid off the street could do in a 757/767 jet. Sorry, your entire list of 9/11 dolt idea people grows in hearsay and pure bs talk. Not one correct piece of evidence here, just hearsay. Do you understand how bad your list is?
Catherine Austin Fitts, Assistant Secretary of Housing under President George H.W. Bush
No evidence from her! Why is she on the list, you like her hearsay rant?
Morgan Reynolds, PhD, former Chief Economist of the U.S. Department of Labor under current President George W. Bush
Insanity personified, he actually says there were no planes. NUT CASE IDEAS, NO evidence.
Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret), Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan
NOT one piece of evidence from this talking head! ZIP YOU LOST THIS ONE KID, NO evidence.
Mary Schiavo. Appointed under the administration of President George H. W. Bush, Ms. Schiavo served as the Inspector General for the U.S. Department of Transportation from 1990 - 1996.
NO evidence. Just talk.
Barbara Honegger, served as Special Assistant to the Chief Domestic Policy Adviser to President Ronald Reagan and as a White House Policy Analyst.
NO evidence. Just talk. She is dumb on 9/11 stuff. Doltish ideas not backed with facts. How do you pick so many people with no evidence?
Edward Peck, Deputy Director of the White House Task Force on Terrorism under President Ronald Reagan. Former Deputy Coordinator, Covert Intelligence Programs at the U.S. State Department. Former U.S. Ambassador and Chief of Mission in Iraq
NO evidence, this guy is so old, is he still alive? Just talk again.
Morton Goulder, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Warning under Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter.
NO evidence, this guy is so old, is he still alive (he died at 87, good job keeping a dead guy on the list of fools for 9/11 truth; seems like 80 year old guys who hate Bush will sign anything, even lies? Just talk again. Two in a row. Are you sure they did not just go to the hospital and have these guys hold a pen and they pushed the petition along their pens?

Your list is pure junk talk on 9/11. Do you have some evidence. Please present some substance these people have presented. Please leave out Morgan, or you prove you are unable to recognize pure ignorance on 9/11.
A few of the talk only activist, signed a petition with dumb stuff like this in it…
The petition stated, in part, "We want truthful answers to questions such as:
2. Why were the extensive missile batteries and air defenses reportedly deployed around the Pentagon not activated during the attack?
How can you post a list of people who get basic facts wrong about 9/11 and reality? This list of people you posted, are dumb on ideas about 9/11. Pure dumb. Please raise the level of your research to met some minimum standard of reality. What a waste of time to look up the fact these people are stupid on 9/11.
 
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We have PICTURES of workmen making those exact same cuts during the clean up
A video shows angled cuts to columns during cleanup.
This negates the argument that angle cuts would not be made during cleanup.

It does not establish when the cut to this column was made.
Acetylene cutting torches blow away the melted metal and leave slag on the back side of the cut.
This column has slag on the outside of the lower left part of this cut.
That part could NOT be cut from the back with an acetylene cutting torch.


cut3ol5.jpg
 
A video shows angled cuts to columns during cleanup.
This negates the argument that angle cuts would not be made during cleanup.

It does not establish when the cut to this column was made.
Acetylene cutting torches blow away the melted metal and leave slag on the back side of the cut.
This column has slag on the outside of the lower left part of this cut.
That part could NOT be cut from the back with an acetylene cutting torch.


http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3187/cut3ol5.jpg

Sorry, but have you sought out the advice of an expert in acetylene cutting torches to clarify this? I kind of refuse to accept your opinions as fact. Can you please provide some backup for "That part could NOT be cut from the back with an acetylene cutting"?
 
The presence of thermite is proof of controlled demolition.

Except there Is no presence of thermite.

Please explain to us how that slag remained on that column with 110 story's of building collapsing on top of it. Is that some sort of super slag? the fact that there is slag still on the column is proof positive that it was cut during the clean up operation.
 
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It does not establish when the cut to this column was made.

Except we do know when it was made because the guy who took that photograph - who you are perfectly capable of contacting yourself - was there to take pictures of steelworkers during the cleanup, and the photograph is one of a sequence that he took, and which was already posted in this thread, and his comment from my correspondence with him was also posted upthread.

You are every bit as capable of finding and corresponding with Mr. Hollenshead as I was. It is significant that you choose not to do so.
 
Please explain to us how that slag remained on that column with 110 story's of building collapsing on top

It's not only that the slag stayed on, but notice that while everything in lower Manhattan was covered with dust, the cut surfaces of that column are not - again demonstrating that the cuts were made after the collapse.

Christoper7, however, believes that the way to cut a column is to make the final cut while standing in front of a direction that the column will fall, and does not seem to fathom the notion of how or why one would cut a box column by making a hole for an angled torch, and cutting from the inside.

Instead, he believes that thermite will selectively cause slag to predominately drip on the inside or outside of a column, as shown by the absence of slag on the left face of the column, and the presence of slag on the front face.
 
Sorry, but have you sought out the advice of an expert in acetylene cutting torches to clarify this? I kind of refuse to accept your opinions as fact. Can you please provide some backup for "That part could NOT be cut from the back with an acetylene cutting"?
Sure, look closely at the lower left corner of the cut.
Above where the arrow is pointing, part of the column isn't cut yet there is slag running down the outside.
This part could not have been cut from the side or the back with an acetylene torch.

cut3ol5.jpg



I don't expect you to take my word for anything. I only ask that you look at the photograph and present logical argument why you think otherwise.
Good points made so far:
The video showing angle cuts
Sometimes they temporarily 'tack' a platform to the side of something to cut it.
The bottom could have been cut from the side.

How can you account for the slag where it can't be cut from the back?
 
Chris,

why not just contact some GZ iron workers and ask them if that cut looks like their work?

If they say 'no' then you might be able to blow the cover off 9/11.

So will you contact them? I don't see why you wouldn't.
 
Chris,

why not just contact some GZ iron workers and ask them if that cut looks like their work?

If they say 'no' then you might be able to blow the cover off 9/11.

So will you contact them? I don't see why you wouldn't.
The last thing Chris wants is for his fantasy to be destroyed. To his credit, he's not like killtown or lyte trip. But there are serious mental issue at play here.
 

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