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Have you ever had a "supernatural" experience? How did you rationalize it?

cresur said:
That was not my intention. I said "rationalize" meaning how do you bring reason into the equation, to dismiss any paranormal mumbo-jumbo. As I made clear on the message. Anyway, I thought saying "supernatural" between quotes was enough to make it clear that I don't think it's real. The same way another thread says "'proof' of time travel".
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I'd suggest a different word, such as "explain"; "rationalize" tends to be used in terms of making excuses for by reasoning.

I guess I missed the "clear" message with your use of such wiggle statements as "I mean, I think I don't believe in the supernatural/paranormal/whatever...."

Additionally, you seem mighty quick to discount explainations that have been offered just as you've done in your last post; several other new posters have been doing the same thing.
 
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cresur said:
That's a very good reasoning. Not very popular, though. For people, all the evidence needed for a ghost to be around is some bottle taking a leap.
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That's kind of the point, though. What makes it evidence of ghosts and not, for example, leprechauns, fairies, gremlins, an invisible bigfoot, the hand of god, the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, aliens, telekinetic powers, energy vortices, bad karma, etc. etc. etc.?
 
I'd suggest a different word, such as "explain"; "rationalize" tends to be used in terms of making excuses for by reasoning.
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I'm not a native english speaker so I probably got it mixed up with the correspondent word in my language. I would change it, if I could, but it doesn't seem to be possible anymore.

I guess I missed the "clear" message with your use of such wiggle statements as "I mean, I think I don't believe in the supernatural/paranormal/whatever...."
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I meant that I've never really given it some thought, but when asked, or when I do think about it, I find that I don't believe it. Not that I was avoiding being assertive because "I might believe it, who knows...".

Additionally, you seem mighty quick to discount explainations that have been offered just as you've done in your last post;
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Really? I thought I was just replying to them, giving my honest opinion on the matter to get the discussion going. It's not exactly like I dismissed them as much as I asked for more clarification on what the posters really meant. "You were talking about it, so you thought it happened" is a vague explanation, for me. I just think that, if that was the case, it should happen more often.

That's kind of the point, though. What makes it evidence of ghosts and not, for example, leprechauns, fairies, gremlins, an invisible bigfoot, the hand of god, the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, aliens, telekinetic powers, energy vortices, bad karma, etc. etc. etc.?
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I agree. I just wanted to know how to argue my point with the believers. That's really what I was after, in this thread. References for reading, building a skeptic mindset and the such.
 
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Quinn said:
I went through a several-year-long phase of believing in out-of-body experiences. I experienced something weird that I couldn't explain, but that sounded a lot like what I had heard about OOBEs. So I looked up OOBEs on the net, and what do you know, there were a bunch of people describing them, and they sounded just like what happened to me, so that must be what was going on! Then a few years later I learned about sleep paralysis, and felt simultaneously relieved and really dumb.
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Sleep paralysis is related to an out of body experience.
 
AmyWilson said:
Sleep paralysis is related to an out of body experience.
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Oh, go away.

I have sleep paralysis and it's never looked or felt like an out of body experience. It usually looks and feels like an ominous presence in the room. Once it looked and felt like there was a UFO outside my window with the bodies/shadows of aliens against the light. Once it looked like my very much living friend was standing next to my bed pointing at my hand (he then faded). Other times it looked like other people I didn't know who started off solid and then faded into the background. A couple of times I didn't even see anything but heard a spooky narrative coupled with horrible screams.

So, Amy, if sleep paralysis is related to an out of body experience, why is it I've experienced hundreds of instances of sleep paralysis and none of them look or feel remotely close to an out of body experience?
 
cresur said:
I agree. I just wanted to know how to argue my point with the believers. That's really what I was after, in this thread. References for reading, building a skeptic mindset and the such.
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Tell them it wasn't a ghost. The voices in your head said so.

In my experience, it's hard if not impossible to argue here. It may boil down to their claim that there simply is more in the world than meets the eye, can be explained, we're meant to know, rah,rah,rah ...

or, they simply demand a fool proof rational explanation and if you can't offer one will claim that the only explanation that remains is whatever garbage they chose to believe in.

Yes, I'm frustrated.
 
Rasmus said:
In my experience, it's hard if not impossible to argue here. It may boil down to their claim that there simply is more in the world than meets the eye, can be explained, we're meant to know, rah,rah,rah ...
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I'd argue that they're aren't offering any explanation except "mystery" (which is just saying that we are ignorant about some things and is no support for any supernatural explanation).
or, they simply demand a fool proof rational explanation and if you can't offer one will claim that the only explanation that remains is whatever garbage they chose to believe in.
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Here I'd point out that they're committing the fallacy of argument from ignorance. A gap in our knowledge doesn't support any other explanation at all.

Yes, I'm frustrated.
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I know what you mean, but I think it's worth it to continue to speak the truth. Some believers actually have never been exposed to these ideas and can "convert" to more rational thinking pretty readily.

(I find this especially true with homeopathy. A lot of people who buy that stuff make their decision based on the packaging and that it looks like and is sold next to actual OTC medicine. Once you explain what it is they've been buying, many former homeopathic customers are outraged.)
 
cresur said:
Title is pretty self-explanatory. I've seen many on this board have apparently had some bizarre things happen in their life, but still managed to keep their cool and shrug it off as normal, however unlikely, occurrences.
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If one doesn't believe in supernatural occurances why would they attribute anything to a supernatural cause. Your question really doesn't make much sense in that respect.
 
If one doesn't believe in supernatural occurances why would they attribute anything to a supernatural cause.
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Many times people do not believe until they finally experience something weird. Then they freak out and attribute it to ghosts, UFOs, demons, whatever. I asked for ways for us to avoid getting caught on that trap. What can we learn, how can we think, etc.
 
cresur said:
Many times people do not believe until they finally experience something weird. Then they freak out and attribute it to ghosts, UFOs, demons, whatever. I asked for ways for us to avoid getting caught on that trap. What can we learn, how can we think, etc.
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The way to "avoid getting caught on that trap" is to use critical thinking; seems pretty straight forward.

What you seem to be fishing for is a "answer to all experiences", which is silly at best...trollish at wrost as no such answer exists.
 
I've never had a supernatural experience or anything like one. Sometimes I feel left out.
 
cresur said:
Many times people do not believe until they finally experience something weird. Then they freak out and attribute it to ghosts, UFOs, demons, whatever. I asked for ways for us to avoid getting caught on that trap. What can we learn, how can we think, etc.
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Please document one rational thinking person that turned woo over one unexplained event.
 
cresur said:
Many times people do not believe until they finally experience something weird. Then they freak out and attribute it to ghosts, UFOs, demons, whatever. I asked for ways for us to avoid getting caught on that trap. What can we learn, how can we think, etc.
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When I was younger (about 12), I went hiking to a fire tower in a state park in Conneticut. To make a long story short my two friends and I saw 2 park rangers in a truck on the trail behind us when there was no way they passed us to get behind us. Even as kids we didn't go off on a limb and claim anything was supernatural. We couldn't explain it (maybe if we tried) but that doesn't mean it was supernatural.
 
What you seem to be fishing for is a "answer to all experiences", which is silly at best...trollish at wrost as no such answer exists.
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I clearly asked for "references for reading, building a skeptic mindset and the such." I'm not obviously looking for an "answer to all experiences", but further develop my critical thinking is exactly what I'm after, and I'd like suggestions for places to start.

Please document one rational thinking person that turned woo over one unexplained event.
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Everyone has weaknesses. It's entirely possible and natural for someone to be rational and logical in all aspects but one regarding one of their weaknesses.

This kind of attitude is simply annoying and doesn't help anything. It might make a couple of your peers giggle, but it certainly doesn't make you look any smarter, if that's what your hoping for.
 
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~enigma~ said:
Please document one rational thinking person that turned woo over one unexplained event.
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On another thread I remember RSLancaster saying that he saw skepticism as a sort of immunity to woo in times of crisis. (The topic was about some horrible tragedy happening that made you desperate for help. Would an otherwise rational person then seek help from a psychic.)

I think it's a good analogy. People whose turn to a supernatural explanation (based on anecdotes or even one-time personal experiences) aren't being skeptical. They're not looking at all the evidence.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
On another thread I remember RSLancaster saying that he saw skepticism as a sort of immunity to woo in times of crisis. (The topic was about some horrible tragedy happening that made you desperate for help. Would an otherwise rational person then seek help from a psychic.)

I think it's a good analogy. People whose turn to a supernatural explanation (based on anecdotes or even one-time personal experiences) aren't being skeptical. They're not looking at all the evidence.
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True...very true.
 
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