JONES new paper:Microspheres and Temperatures

[T.A.M.]

Yada Yada yada....

He has, at times, expressed a concern about getting information out before a false flag operation makes that impossible. Thanks to the CIA forcing the issue of the NIE, recently, I think that's of less concern (though ex-CIA Philip Giraldi has informed us that attacking Iran may still be on the agenda).

Yada Yada Yada....

This made me laugh, and kind of wraps up this entire premise in a nutshell...

OMG!!!

TAM

 

[bofors]

First, Jones's data show exclusively iron oxide particles.

Really? Then why do they appear metallic?

 

[T.A.M.]

Blood and ham sandwhiches wrapped in aluminum foil?

CC is a truthful guy, it isn't that I don't believe him, I'd just like to see something in print.

Words that should be etched here at the JREF forum...we have been waiting 6 years to get "something IN PRINT" from the twoofers.

TAM

 

[Furcifer]

Is there a note on the magnification that micrograph was taken at bofors?

 

[The Almond]

Really? Then why do they appear metallic?

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4854/metallicky3.jpg

You're showing an optical microscope image, and you assume that they're pure metals? What spectroscopic data are you looking at?

 

[beachnut]

Well he isn't the first.

RJ Lee report states.

RJ Lee is saying Jones' ideas are crap. You left out the key.

Particles of materials that had been modified by exposure to high temperature, such as spherical particles of iron and silicates, are common in WTC Dust because of the fire that accompanied the WTC Event, but are not common in “normal” interior office dust.

This is the key.

Particles of materials that had been modified by exposure to high temperature, such as spherical particles of iron and silicates, are common in WTC Dust because of the fire that accompanied the WTC Event

The fire in the WTC was big. And the energy of the collapse was a big event. The gravity collapse of each tower was more than 100 2,000 pounds bombs. This means every pieces of loose rust, each piece of dust, from the day the building was built, hidden in the steel, all the small particles still left from all the welds in the WTC in the 60s and 70s, were set loose on 9/11.

The fire was set with over 60,000 pounds of fuel. That makes the WTC fire by definition not a "normal" office fire! A normal office fire is fought, and does not have 315 tons of TNT heat energy fuel to start it!

Jones' was 4 years late and made up thermite, because there are no explosive sounds, no blasts, no bombs. But he has always been without evidence, he is backing in evidence, but failing.

because of the fire that accompanied the WTC Event[ /QUOTE] The expert Jones' uses blames all the particles on the collapse and on fire in the WTC.

So RJ LEE states the WTC fires did it.

The fire did it. Not thermite, not bombs, but fire. Gee an expert like RJ Lee may of found things that go boom, or fizzle like Jones dumb made up ideas of woo, but did not; are you a woo master like Jones?

 

[bofors]

These are iron-oxide particles, see the difference?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(III)_oxide

 

[The Almond]

These are iron-oxide particles, see the difference?:

So, to answer my question, you have no proof that the metals aren't oxidized, or what they're made of other than the fact that they're shiny, and Jones says they are?

 

[T.A.M.]

For the layperson, is this X-Ray spectral analysis comparable to the ones in the JONES paper? This is from an article concerning WTC dust...they say it is in keeping with amosite.

http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/content/vol166/issue6/images/large/200206-576OCf3b.jpeg

TAM

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Do you know any resources that describe what you have done?

Or any resources that describe such observations in other office fires?

http://www.863.org.cn/english/Forum/14.doc

Surface Modification of Fe3O4 Nanoparticles
Yongjian Liu, Hong Zhuang, University of Science & Tech of Suzhou, P.R. CHINA
Hongyi Jia, CUMT, P.R. CHINA
This article discusses the surface modification process of Fe3O4 nanoparticles in details
through a series of experiments. And on the basis of the surface modification coating
mechanism, the theoretical analysis is done to the experimental phenomena and the
effects on the variation of size, magnetism and stability of Fe3O4 nanoparticles
produced by the different of pH value, temperature and added dosage of surfactant.
54-

Here is some more information on combustion reactions with acids.

Study of the Effect of FeCl3 on the Ignition Point of Coal
Qiaowen Yang, Dongyao Xu, Wei Li, Aiguo Cheng, Jia Cao, Liying Wang, China
University of Mining & Technology, P.R. CHINA
The combustion supporting alternate agent of three coals was selected by Thermal Gravity
Analysis (TG) in this paper, it has been found that FeCl3 plays great role on reducing the
ignition point of Guangxi Liang-coal, and FeCl3 could effectively reduce the ignition point
of Xinwen raw coal and Guangxi An-coal also. It also stated that FeCl3 has a good
combustion supporting action on the coal. At the same time, the relationship of FeCl3
amount and the ignition point of coal were inspected; the optimum amount of FeCl3 could be
got. We initially probed into the combustion supporting mechanism of FeCl3, during
combustion, the combustion supporting action of FeCl3 was the results of common action of
chloride and iron in chemicals; The combustion supporting action of FeCl3 was individually
achieved by reducing the ignition point of Volatile and Fixed Carbon.
Experimental Investigation and Theoretical Calculation on Effect of C12
on Mercury Oxidation in Coal Fire Combustion Process
Wei-Ping Pan, Songgeng Li, Quanhai Wang, Yan Cao, ICSET of Western Kentucky
University, USA
Mercury (Hg) from coal power plants has been identified as the hazardous air pollutant
of greatest public health concern. Hg in the flue gas occurs as three main forms: the
gaseous elemental mercury Hg(0), the gaseous oxidized Hg(2+), and particulate
mercury, Hg(p). Hg(2+) is water soluble, highly absorbable on fly ash and has a low
vapor pressure. Therefore, relative to Hg(0), Hg(2+) is more effectively captured in
conventional Air Pollution Control Devices (APCD) such as wet scrubbers (FGD),
fabric filters (FF) and electrostatic precipitator (ESP). However, Hg(0) is firstly
vaporized in the flue gas at higher temperature zone in combustor, followed by
thermodynamically favored oxidation process to major occurrence of Hg(2+) through
the homogeneous and the heterogeneous reaction routines at downstream flue gas pass
as temperature is cooled down. Thus, identifying the mechanism of mercury oxidation
in the downstream flue gas pass is very important to improve mercury emission control
efficiencies by APCD in the coal-fired boilers. Based on facts that HgCl2 is the main
Hg(2+) in coal-fired combustion process, as well as enormous previous studies on Hg
oxidation, it has been generally accepted that chlorine-containing species are the most
important factor on the Hg(0) oxidation in coal-fired flue gas. Chlorine is evolved
during coal combustion primarily as hydrochloric acid (HCl), less chance as chlorine
molecule (Cl2) through the Deacon reaction under fly ash available conditions.
However, the possible concentration of Cl2 is still much higher than request by the Hg
oxidation process. Moreover, the flue gas chemistry may dramatically impact this
oxidation process by the intermediate reactions to affect production of chlorine ion,
which is more active in the Hg oxidation process. In this work, isolated effects of Cl2
and HCl or their effects including other flue gas species on Hg oxidation under a
largely varied temperature window were investigated in a special designed multi-phase
flow reactor. A thermal-dynamic and kinetics calculation is used to explore the maxim
Hg oxidation rate and possible reaction mechanisms.

Transformation of the Fe-Mineral Associations in Coal during Gasification
Frans Waanders, North-West University, SOUTH AFRICA
John Bunt, Sasol Technology, SOUTH AFRICA
The mineral matter associated with coal undergoes various transformations during the
coal gasification process. Optimisation of the gasification process is necessary in the
coal to liquids technology. The principle aim of this investigation was to determine the
changes that the Fe-containing minerals and mineral associations undergo during
gasification used, a gasifier dissection was undertaken on one of the Sasol gasifiers. Detailed
characterisation profiles of various properties of the coal were undertaken after a
commercial-scale gasifier was shutdown for routine maintenance of which the
Mössbauer spectroscopy technique will be described here. Representative samples
from the gasifier were extracted after sufficient cooling was done to allow the safe
turn-out of the gasifier. In the coal samples that entered the gasifier, pyrite was the
abundant Fe-containing mineral, whilst the pyrite changed gradually to form, in
conjunction with the SiO2 and Al2O3 present in the coal, a Fe-containing glass and
hematite at the bottom, or ash grate of the gasifier.of coal. Due to the complexity of the counter-current coal-gas process

 

[beachnut]

These are iron-oxide particles, see the difference?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(III)_oxide

not Fe3O4 (an oxide too) or FeO, but you mean Fe2O3 (so)

The fires in the WTC, and the collapse account for all the stuff found by RJ Lee, and he says so. He did not mention finding proof of explosives, he would he covered everything else. He did not find proof of Thermite, he would have mentioned signatures showing thermite if it was unique. Plus you would find proof of both bombs and thermite in the piles! Thermite would have been all over the place as big piles of IRON; like you see if you weld a railroad track together with thermite. Themite would have been found easy. Sad Jones is so dumb on this issue. Bombs, would have been easy too. Thermobolic weapons even easier, they do produce a massive shock wave. So that leaves the only violent thermal event of 9/11 to be fire, which weakens steel.

Truth is fire did it, and Jones wants to make up lies. You like Jones, you are in with the dumb ideas on 9/11. Too bad.

The fires of 9/11 at the WTC could do all we see Jones quibbling about. When you see fly ash mentioned in RJ Lees work, he is talking about fly ash created on 9/11 by the fires! And any release during the collapse of the WTC.

Particles of materials that had been modified by exposure to high temperature, such as spherical particles of iron and silicates, are common in WTC Dust because of the fire that accompanied the WTC Event,… .

See RJ Lee said so. Notice he said FIRES, not thermite, he said FIRES, not bombs!

 

[bofors]

So, to answer my question, you have no proof that the metals aren't oxidized or what they're made of other than the fact that they're shiny...

Do you know the difference between an oxidized metal and a metal-oxide?

Can you explain the difference between covalent and metallic bonding in terms of optical properties?

 

[T.A.M.]

Did any other independent lab or group make any comment on the temperatures needed to obtain these spherules, and whether they were unexpected in the WTC fires??? Did he make any comment, one way or the other, on whether the spherules could have been within the building pre-collapse/pre-impact? Did he make any comment about whether other chemicals or materials could have influenced the temperature needed to create said spherules???

TAM

 

[The Almond]

Do you know the difference between an oxidized metal and a metal-oxide?

Can you explain the difference between covalent and metallic bonding in terms of optical properties?

Stop.

Is it your contention that the shiny materials shown in figure 1 of Jones's paper are all metals? Do you contend that the description "shiny metallic" applies to a sub class of pure metal spherules and not to the silicates also clearly present in the image?

Edited to add:
The caption for figure one clearly indicates that the descriptor "shiny metallic" and its successor, "semi-transparent" applies to silicate rich materials, not metals. Jones is not applying his classification of metals based on the fact that they're shiny. Other than that, the other materials, if metals, are very clearly oxidized. Reading comprehension Bofors, get some.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

These are iron-oxide particles, see the difference?:

[qimg]http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/8256/799pxiron28iii29oxidesaqw7.jpg[/qimg]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(III)_oxide

I am sorry Bofors that my iron oxide is not as shinny as Dr. Joneses it would have been if I it was pure.
Fe 3O4 can be shinny if the right trace elements are present in the original steel.

 

[bofors]

Stop.

Is it your contention that the shiny materials shown in figure 1 of Jones's paper are all metals? Do you contend that the description "shiny metallic" applies to a sub class of pure metal spherules and not to the silicates also clearly present in the image?

Edited to add:
The caption for figure one clearly indicates that the descriptor "shiny metallic" and its successor, "semi-transparent" applies to silicate rich materials, not metals. Jones is not applying his classification of metals based on the fact that they're shiny. Other than that, the other materials, if metals, are very clearly oxidized. Reading comprehension Bofors, get some.

Stundie!!!

 

[bofors]

I having more reading comprehension problems, please explain to me what this means:

The spherules found in the WTC dust were predominately iron-rich (appearing metallic) and silicates
(appearing glassy under an optical microscope).

 

[Apollo20]

The Almond/Chainsaw:

I think we have to accept that metallic particles have been found in the WTC dust by several research groups, not just by Jones' team:

For example:

In the R. J. Lee Report on Damage Assessment at 130 Liberty Street we read on page 3:

“The conflagration activated processes that caused materials to form into spherical particle such as metals (e.g. Fe, Zn, Pb)…”

In a paper by E. M. Fireman entitled “Induced Sputum in Firefighters Exposed to WTC Dust” published in Environmental Health Perspectives 112(15), 1564, (2004), we read:

“Chemical analysis of the FDNY-FF samples revealed many elements, for example, titanium, zinc, mercury, gold, tin and nickel which were present as metal alloys or metal oxides in abundant large particles (size range 1 – 50 microns). The shape varied from irregular to SPHERICAL.”


Note the use of the words "metal" and "metal alloy"......

 

[Dave_46]

<snip>

Extremely high temperatures during the collapse which caused metallic lead to volitize, oxidize, and finally condense on the surface of the mineral wood

<snip>

Sizzler, can you please check this quote you put in post 165. Looking at the context I suspect you may have made an error in transcription.

Thanks

Dave

 

[The Almond]

I having more reading comprehension problems, please explain to me what this means:

The spherules found in the WTC dust were predominately iron-rich (appearing metallic) and silicates
(appearing glassy under an optical microscope).

Iron rich is not the same as being a pure metal. Nice try though.