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Federal reserve debunkers I need alittle help

Max Photon said:
Proxywar,

The Federal Reserve is an utter abomination. It is immoral, unconstitutional, deceptive, and completely fraudulent.

The Federal Reserve Notes issues are IOU NOTHINGS - Little Green Lies. The Federal Reserve Notes issued are certainly not money. (For the slow, debt is not money.)

The functions of the Federal Reserve are many.

The primary function is to surreptitiously siphon off the productive gains from "dollar" holders, present and future, by facilitating an unconstitutional check-kiting scheme between the US Treasury and the Federal Reserve. Both issue paper that serves as collateral for the other, yet that neither has any intention of, nor ability to honor. (We would go to prison if we did the same thing.)

The dance of deception between the Federal Reserve and the US Treasury facilitates deficit spending, of which Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the FR for 17 years, said, "Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth."

What is the publicly-claimed function of the Federal Reserve? Why, it's to protect us from inflation. What a cruel, sick joke. The FED is the dynamo of inflation. Inflation is nothing but currency devaluation. The FED deliberately inflates or debases the currency! That is it's function!

Perhaps you should open your mind a little, and listen to that truther. You are on the wrong side of this one. (And remember, if he is right about the FED, you might want to consider what he is saying about 911 truth.)

Max
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:dl:

Max Photon said:
P.S. I have an MBA from the Wharton Graduate School of Finance, if that means anything.
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You don't and it doesn't.
 
Max Photon said:
And the only people who make less than engineers are economic professors.
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Hey, you should have met my International Economic Policy professor. His claim (always met with great skepticism) was that he bought a lot of gold back in the 70s, and has been independently wealthy since the 80s. "I only have a job because I like the work." He also makes "a lot of money" by funding engineering start-ups and then selling his share if they get big - "That's why I teach an Entrepreneur class, so I can get in on the very ground floor."
 
Gravy said:
. Also, there were many causes of the Great Depression. The Fed's actions were a contributing factor, not the sole one.
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IANAA (I am not an American) and my knowledge of the Great Depression is a bit sketchy, but my understanding was the the contributing actions of the Fed were, effectively, that they did not intervene.

In such a situation, surely they let the situation develop as though they did not exist.

If thats the case, then its a pretty big leap for anyone to argue that they were a causal factor at all. It would be more accurate to say that they could have been a mitigating factor, but weren't, but if they did nothing, then had they not existed, the outcome would have been little (if any) different.
 
bonkey said:
IANAA (I am not an American) and my knowledge of the Great Depression is a bit sketchy, but my understanding was the the contributing actions of the Fed were, effectively, that they did not intervene.

In such a situation, surely they let the situation develop as though they did not exist.

If thats the case, then its a pretty big leap for anyone to argue that they were a causal factor at all. It would be more accurate to say that they could have been a mitigating factor, but weren't, but if they did nothing, then had they not existed, the outcome would have been little (if any) different.
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The Fed did intervene by raising interest rates, which turned out to be the wrong decision (before and after the Depression started), but I do think that once it was a full-blown international crisis, the Fed had little power to change it. It took FDR's economic policies to turn things around in the U.S., particularly dropping the gold standard, which was like a ball and chain on the economy. Countries that left the gold standard universally recovered from the Depression faster than those that clung to it.
 
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sthomson said:
My economics professor liked to say, "The only people who know less about economics than engineers are MBAs."
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As a MBA (Kenan-Flagler, UNC) I'd have to concur - not with the intended slur, but with the general sentiment. I had a BSBA with a double-major in economics and accounting and was a CPA before I entered graduate school. Through two years of MBA classes, games and exercises we discussed virtually no hard-core economics or monetary theory. When I spoke of economic theory to my professors I often got blank stares back. Its simply not a part of what an MBA needs to know on a day-to-day basis.

The expertise of an MBA is as far removed from true economics as a mechanical engineer at a metal fabricating firm is from quantum physics.
 
proxywar said:
^ i've been reading that gravy and it is a great source of infromation for dealing with these pricks.

However... What threw me off was this...

"If the purpose of the Federal Reserve was to prevent depressions, then what about the Great Depression of 1929, which was directly related to the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve was created in 1913."

The reason being, the first myth only discusses how the Aldrich Plan was rejected do to the "money trust" issue, which Wilson was staunchly voical about. And how the outline of the Aldrich plan emerged to create the Federal Reserve Act 1913 making the Federal Reserve System privately owned but publicly controlled. Which I suppose should of helped america out of depression instead of landing america into another depression in 1924.

He used that primese to assert the rest of his argument.

Does he have a point or create a fallacy of some sort? I'm usually pretty good with catching fallacies But this one has me stumped. I'd like a real answer to this nonsene it would help me out.
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I don't know about other people but his Great Depression argument sounds like an oversimplification to me. There was far more the the Great Depression then the US Federal Reserve which by the looks of it screwed up. It didn't cause it.
 
Max Photon said:
O...kay
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Okay!
Max, how did you get the job as the Word of God - as WOG?

Well, Max Photon - Light - or Truth - is not the Word of God - but rather a carrier-signal - a messenger - like the radio signal from KMAX.

Not just me - anyone who speaks the truth - or at least tries his best - is the Main Man's messenger.

And remember, don't shoot the messenger, or MM will kill you - hard!
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So Max is the word on everything.
 
Max Photon said:
Proxywar,

The Federal Reserve is an utter abomination. It is immoral, unconstitutional, deceptive, and completely fraudulent.

The Federal Reserve Notes issues are IOU NOTHINGS - Little Green Lies. The Federal Reserve Notes issued are certainly not money. (For the slow, debt is not money.)
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Then you'll have no problem sending me all those "Little Green Lies" you have, yes? I'll pay the postage!

P.S. I have an MBA from the Wharton Graduate School of Finance, if that means anything.
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Wharton should demand their degree back.
 
WildCat said:
Wharton should demand their degree back.
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Wharton should demand its degree back.


ETA: Proxywar, sorry "MBA" derailed your thread - I meant that to be helpful. The crew here is easily distracted.

Anyway, the topic is about the FED. I am eager to hear all those who spouted off say something intelligent with respect to the OP. (I just set up my lawn chair.)

MBAX
 
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madurobob said:
As a MBA (Kenan-Flagler, UNC) I'd have to concur - not with the intended slur, but with the general sentiment. I had a BSBA with a double-major in economics and accounting and was a CPA before I entered graduate school. Through two years of MBA classes, games and exercises we discussed virtually no hard-core economics or monetary theory. When I spoke of economic theory to my professors I often got blank stares back. Its simply not a part of what an MBA needs to know on a day-to-day basis.

The expertise of an MBA is as far removed from true economics as a mechanical engineer at a metal fabricating firm is from quantum physics.
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I studied a fair amount of economic and monetary theory. My macro professor actually worked at the Fed. I guess some kudos goes to the Foster School of Business. :D
 
The Federal Reserve Notes issued are certainly not money. (For the slow, debt is not money.)
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Can I give you a bank account number to help you get rid of all the fictitious money you are carrying? Well, that is assuming you actually have any.

The functions of the Federal Reserve are many.
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Wrong, the function of a Central Bank is one: to maintain price stability.

The primary function is to surreptitiously siphon off the productive gains from "dollar" holders, present and future, by facilitating an unconstitutional check-kiting scheme between the US Treasury and the Federal Reserve.
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That is according to the ill-informed ideas you've grabbed from the many conspiracy theories websites and "documentaries" you seem to be using as the source of your "knowledge". I suggest you try a different approach and start visiting your local library ... you know, that building full books that conspiracy theorists dread so much.

Both issue paper that serves as collateral for the other, yet that neither has any intention of, nor ability to honor. (We would go to prison if we did the same thing.)
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That is not only incorrect and absurd, it's also a blatant lie. The only government agency that has the power to "issue paper" (at least you did not use the 'print money out of thin air' cliche) is the US Treasury through the Bureau of Printing and Engraving and the U.S. Mint.

The dance of deception between the Federal Reserve and the US Treasury facilitates deficit spending, of which Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the FR for 17 years, said, "Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth."
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Really? So according to you the percentage of the total government expenditures financed by debt with the Federal Reserve should be quite high ... right? Well no, the share is quite low actually: In this thread I demonstrated how this share was less than 1% of the total government expenditures. 7% of the total deficit expending.

The actual numbers don't add up to the nonsense you are babbling here.

What is the publicly-claimed function of the Federal Reserve? Why, it's to protect us from inflation. What a cruel, sick joke. The FED is the dynamo of inflation. Inflation is nothing but currency devaluation. The FED deliberately inflates or debases the currency! That is it's function!
Click to expand...

After seeing the previous fact about the actual share of the government expenditures financed by The Fed, this particular "argument" of yours is just laughable.

Let's do this, the next time you want to regurgitate silly arguments put up a little effort and do some research. That way shooting them down will be a little more entertaining.

P.S. I have an MBA from the Wharton Graduate School of Finance, if that means anything.
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Then I suggest you stick to Business Administration until you get some formal education on economics, specially monetary theory.

It does means something tho, the curriculum of your school needs to be updated.
 
Max Photon said:
I strongly suspect that the inability to see the Federal Reserve deception and the 911 deception are highly correlated.

I suspect a statist fetish is the common link.


ETA:

Proxywar, you might find these helpful:

Revisionist View of the Great Depression - Part I

Revisionist View of the Great Depression - Part II
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I hope this revisionism isn't done fallaciously like holocaust revisionism.
I'll read it if it's not CT babble i'm not wasting my time on that crap.
nonetheless thanks for the imput.

If anyone has any more helpful links post away.
I want to understand the actual historic causes here, creditable sources please.

Thanks to AlanGreenspan as well I found that thread interesting.
 
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In Mr Greenspan's book, he claims that central bankers have managed to do such a good job that most currencies now mimic the gold standard. I was also a little surprised to see that he approved of Volcker's high interest regime at the end of the 1970s to stop inflation.

He rightly says that while inflation used to be rampant in almost half the world's economies 30 years ago, only Zimbabwe currently suffers that fate.
 
It's kind of nice, you know, to look at a currency note and know that there are security features you can use to verify it, that only one institution is allowed to emit the note, and that people will honor it even if they've never heard of the bank you drew it from.

I can't see why anyone would want to go back to the 19th-century situation where none of this was true.
 
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