Something I was never sceptical about for some reason

[ImaginalDisc]

My casual guess is these things are related and something else is going on other than simply "bronze-aged dogma". We have two different cultures with two different religions with the same fears and accusations - that Europe is intentionally infecting Africans with AIDS to kill them. Of course, it shouldn't be surprising that the person will believe their religion and opinions on morals has the answer.

Your "casual guess" isn't good enough. US aid to Africa revolves around an abstinence-only "sex ed" program that has being shown to be worse than ineffective in controlling the spread of HIV. The Catholic Church persists in villifying condoms and birth control in general, prefering unwanted babies to be born to terminally ill people rather than a world of healthier people.

This is not an issue about moral and cultural relitivism, it's about facts. You should stop guessing and start researching, "Sceptic."

 

[skeptical]

He is not 'telling people' this crap, but Reuters. You didn't see that in the article? What do you know about urban legends in Africa, what? Did you know the government of South Africa insisted for years that AIDS was a pure invention of the rich countries to discredit Africa?

Yes, I'm aware. The point is that here is a RCC official propagating this ridiculousness. I don't see the RCC stepping up and stopping him.

You know the actual difficulties and challenges in Mozambique when facing HIV? You investigated? What do you actually know about Mozambique? Do you care about Mozambique? Or do you care about bashing the RCC?

What in the world is your point? What does any of that have to do with a RCC official propagating ridiculous and harmful conspiracy nonsense? The only relevant issue is trying to stop the spread of AIDS, and this idiot is making people think that condoms give them AIDS.

And, oh: please provide evidence that HIV prevalence/incidence is higher within the catholic population compared to the overall population in Mozambique. Would you?

I never said it was. It may be or it may not be, its irrelevant to the fact that a RCC official is spreading ridiculous conspiracy theories that is likely to stop people from using condoms because they think they will give them AIDS.

But it seems you only see what you want to see, and ignore the rest.

Physician heal thyself. Perhaps if you weren't so intent on trying to defend the RCC you might see how harmful this sort of nonsense is when its spread by people who are supposed to be looking out for their followers.

 

[A Christian Sceptic]

Your "casual guess" isn't good enough. US aid to Africa revolves around an abstinence-only "sex ed" program that has being shown to be worse than ineffective in controlling the spread of HIV. The Catholic Church persists in villifying condoms and birth control in general, prefering unwanted babies to be born to terminally ill people rather than a world of healthier people.

This is not an issue about moral and cultural relitivism, it's about facts. You should stop guessing and start researching, "Sceptic."

I'm not talking about the RCC stance as a whole or even US Aid to Africa, but that specific article featuring that bishops reactions to the AIDS epidemic in his country. And in this regard, my casual guess is just as relevant as anyones.

Have you even read that article?

 

[A Christian Sceptic]

The only relevant issue is trying to stop the spread of AIDS, and this idiot is making people think that condoms give them AIDS.

Actually, in that article he's saying Europeans are purposely infecting condoms with AIDS to kill Africans. If I was a European I'd be more concerned with that.

 

[Herzblut]

Yes, I'm aware. The point is that here is a RCC official propagating this ridiculousness.

The article talks about an interview to Reuters, doesn't it? Hence, Reuters, the BBC and yourself are propagating this ridiculousness.

What in the world is your point?

You are clueless.

What does any of that have to do with a RCC official propagating ridiculous and harmful conspiracy nonsense? The only relevant issue is trying to stop the spread of AIDS, and this idiot is making people think that condoms give them AIDS.

How many people has he been making change their mind so far? Please quantify the harm caused by this change of mind. Relate this to the harm caused by the South African government which is directly responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths.

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

Herzblute, what on earth is going on in your mind? The Roman Catholic church is deliberately trying to prevent people from using condoms, as well as denying sex education – WHEN WE KNOW that condoms might help in this disastrous situation.

Sceptical’s article explicitly mentions that the head of the Catholic Church in Mozambique is spreading these rumours. Are you suggesting Reuters is lying here? Reuters is merely reporting what that idiot is saying.

 

[articulett]

Herzblute, what on earth is going on in your mind? The Roman Catholic church is deliberately trying to prevent people from using condoms, as well as denying sex education – WHEN WE KNOW that condoms might help in this disastrous situation.

Sceptical’s article explicitly mentions that the head of the Catholic Church in Mozambique is spreading these rumours. Are you suggesting Reuters is lying here? Reuters is merely reporting what that idiot is saying.

I don't think that Herzblut has ever engaged in actual successful back and forth dialogue with anyone on this forum for what it's worth. Don't set your expectations high. He's "smart" but not fully "connected" from my perspective... and easily angered. (I suspect many people have him on ignore.) Your arguments are lucid, well backed up, and sound. He's some sort of Catholic apologist though he says he's an atheist... I'd recommend engaging him for entertainment purposes only and with thick skin.

 

[Herzblut]

Herzblute, what on earth is going on in your mind? The Roman Catholic church is deliberately trying to prevent people from using condoms, as well as denying sex education – WHEN WE KNOW that condoms might help in this disastrous situation.

SO YOU KNOW what's good for the black man, don't you, white man?

After colonizing our country for FIVEHUNDRET YEARS in which you enslaved our brothers and sons to be chained to the oars in OUR OWN gold mines.

YOU KNOW, STILL, what's good for the black man, don't you, white man?

After you massacred so many of our women and children, when we fought for our independence against your ruthless troups.

YOU KNOW, STILL, what's good for the black man, don't you, white man?

After you, finally, escaped and left us alone in dispair, but, how convenient, kept selling your lethal weapons to both sides of our civil war in which a million of our good people died.

YOU KNOW, STILL, what's good for the black man, don't you, white man?

So, nowadays, you don't want our 'babies to be born to ill people rather than a world of healthier people', do you? In the end, it's still your world, not ours, isn't it white man? "Rather dead than alive and riotously reproducing.", we have heard that before, white man. Remember? In the 1960s, when WHO authorities believed there was no alternative to the overpopulation problem but to assure that up to 40 percent of the children in poor nations would die of malaria. OUR children, white man.

YOU KNOW, STILL, what's good for the black man, don't you, white man?

AND WE FOLLOW YOU, STILL, white man? Because YOU KNOW?

 

[PixyMisa]

Five points for articulett!

 

[Olowkow]

Five points for articulett!

A million points, but the points don't count!

 

[KingMerv00]

SO YOU KNOW what's good for the black man, don't you, white man?

Yes. Not having AIDS or unwanted children is good for the black man.

After colonizing our country for FIVEHUNDRET YEARS in which you enslaved our brothers and sons to be chained to the oars in OUR OWN gold mines.

I'm 500 years old? I own gold mines?

After you massacred so many of our women and children, when we fought for our independence against your ruthless troups.

I have troups? Wait, what are "troups"?

After you, finally, escaped and left us alone in dispair, but, how convenient, kept selling your lethal weapons to both sides of our civil war in which a million of our good people died.

I'm an arms dealer? Why don't I have nicer furniture.

AND WE FOLLOW YOU, STILL, white man? Because YOU KNOW?

I KNOW you are a rascist.

 

[articulett]

I have troups? Wait, what are "troups"?

Boy Scouts?

(Did you tell him that the color of the guy in your avatar is not necessarily indicative of skin color?)

 

[KingMerv00]

Boy Scouts?

(Did you tell him that the color of the guy in your avatar is not necessarily indicative of skin color?)

I'd like to say I misspelled "racist" intentionally in a clever attempt to mock him but it turns out i'm just dumb.

Ah well, he deserves to have his petty mistakes ridiculed.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

I'd like to say I misspelled "racist" intentionally in a clever attempt to mock him but it turns out i'm just dumb.

Ah well, he deserves to have his petty mistakes ridiculed.

Hertzblut's first language isn't English. Unless you and Arti can speak/write German, it's pretty petty to mock his misspellings regardless of his positions.

 

[KingMerv00]

Hertzblut's first language isn't English. Unless you and Arti can speak/write German, it's pretty petty to mock his misspellings regardless of his positions.

I did not know that. It is a shame I can't use that excuse.

Some opinions don't deserve real responses. See my sig.

 

[articulett]

I did not know that. It is a shame I can't use that excuse.

Some opinions don't deserve real responses. See my sig.

Yes it's much more less petty to go around telling every one else how much more pettier they are than you. (tee-hee)

 

[KingMerv00]

Wait, am I being called to task for lightly mocking someone who implied I am responsible for the slave trade and Imperialism in Africa?

I think my sense of scale is all out of whack.

 

[halofish2000]

Back to the thread, Isaiah 40:22 mentions the earth being a circle.

 

[Hokulele]

This is an interesting article describing the evidence that the ancient Hebrews had a flat earth cosmology (as did their neighbors). What makes this article even more interesting is the comment at the end that these implications were pretty much ignored until 1800's.

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

SO YOU KNOW what's good for the black man, don't you, white man?

After colonizing our country for FIVEHUNDRET YEARS in which you enslaved our brothers and sons to be chained to the oars in OUR OWN gold mines.

YOU KNOW, STILL, what's good for the black man, don't you, white man?

After you massacred so many of our women and children, when we fought for our independence against your ruthless troups.

YOU KNOW, STILL, what's good for the black man, don't you, white man?

After you, finally, escaped and left us alone in dispair, but, how convenient, kept selling your lethal weapons to both sides of our civil war in which a million of our good people died.

YOU KNOW, STILL, what's good for the black man, don't you, white man?

So, nowadays, you don't want our 'babies to be born to ill people rather than a world of healthier people', do you? In the end, it's still your world, not ours, isn't it white man? "Rather dead than alive and riotously reproducing.", we have heard that before, white man. Remember? In the 1960s, when WHO authorities believed there was no alternative to the overpopulation problem but to assure that up to 40 percent of the children in poor nations would die of malaria. OUR children, white man.

YOU KNOW, STILL, what's good for the black man, don't you, white man?

AND WE FOLLOW YOU, STILL, white man? Because YOU KNOW?

If you’re trying to express what it’s like to have a cactus in the arse, I can certainly sympathize with you. Otherwise, you’re not making any sense to me. Why don’t you just explicitly explain your position? Do you think it’s justifiable to preach the evilness of condoms and sex education to children, or would you rather have each and everyone decide, for themselves, what to do with their life? I don’t know what your ‘black man vs. white man’ dichotomy is suppose to illustrate, except that it shows you still think in those terms.

It seems to me that it’s the Roman Catholic Church that’s trying to impose its senile worldview onto others, not the other way around. Although, I have to admit that some common sense is starting to slip through the bars of ignorance: In 2003 Cardinal Barragan condoned the use of condoms if the husband is HIV-positive and when the wife cannot refuse her husband’s sexual advances. Of course, it’s still quite depressing that a collection of old male virgins must insist they have a say in such a sad and private issue like that.