More than one god in the Bible?

[Radrook]

That's nice.

Still, it's baffling how a supposedly loving god, sits by and watches while civilizations are tortured and slaughtered into oblivion, in his name .

It definitey can be baffling and we are 100% justified in demanding an explanation.

 

[Nogbad]

(Jews, and to a lesser extent Muslims, who had professed conversion to Christianity)

It was directed at their own people.


Why do you make it out that the Spanish were responsible for all of the slavery trade?
It still happens even today but not on the scale that past history shows us, so it seems that God lets us learn from past mistakes to an extent.

Indeed the Jews and Moors were Spanish citizens although at the behest of Torquemada the Jews were nevertheless all expelled from the country unless they converted to Christianity (Alhambra decree 1492). Many fled to Muslim N Africa where they were treated tolerably well. Those that stayed and converted were treated terribly and subject to the Inquisition.

I am not sure if the latter comment is in response to me or not as I never said the Spanish were responsible for all of the slave trade and cannot see how what I wrote could possibly be read that way. What I said was that the Spanish introduced a new concept of racial superiority into the slave trade. The Arabs were long involved in the slave trade and one of the reasons many East Africans converted to Islam was because it prevented them being taken as slaves by the Arabs. The Arabs had a concept that infidels could be taken as slaves but not Muslims. Christians on the other hand were not interested if Africans converted to Christianity, at least with regards their status as slaves - indeed some went so far as to argue that Black Africans had no soul to convert.

As a matter of interest, how many African slaves do you think were taken to the Spanish territories of Central and Southern American?

 

[ChuckHash]

You are using a silly false dillema:

1. Either accept beyond discussiuon
2. Or declare poppycock

You fail to mention a third possibility.

Accept as truth.


---

de·lu·sion /dɪˈluʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-loo-zhuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
4. Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.

 

[SimonD]

The rest of mankind were never subject to the Mosaic Law. Only natural Israel was. Neverthless they were subject to the law of sin and death due to being sons of Adam who passed on his fallen condition via genetics.

BTW
The reason Israel was under Mosaic Law or the Law mediated by Moses, was because the nation had agreed to be under Mosaic Law after they were offered the opportunity at Mount Sinai.

In Exodus 19:5 "Now therefore, if ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine; and ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation."

Being under such law obligated them to follow certain ceremonial practices such as tithing, offer of sacrifices for sin etcetera.

Death was around before anyone thought up the Jewish God.

I don't subscribe to arguments merely from authority and would never respect a God who doesn't permit us to ask questions.
The scripture is simply an explanation as to why some things which God permits or does are a bit difficult to understand from our limited intellectual finite viewpoint.

Does that include all the killings, rapes, fathers sleeping with their daughters, et. al?

The analogy is false since a game isn't similar to the situation you 're comparing it to.

It was an attempt at humour

In his heart he would like to grant salvation to everyone. But he cannotr expect everyone to accept his offer. In fact, he cannot expect the majority to accept his offer. This isn't due to flaw of his proivision-it's due to flaw in human hearts.

Forgiveness is granted all people willing to take advantage of the Ransom sacrifice provided by Jesus not just the descendants of Abraham. Neither were Hitler's crimes approved of or mandated by God as you are assuming.

As to relationship with any particular people, a spiritual Israel replaced the natural one after the establishment of a new covenant:

Here is an article which explains it in detail:

Spiritual IUsrael
http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyK...ledesktop.homestead.com/spiritual_israel.html

It still sounds like a threat to me. Believe in me or die.

 

[Nogbad]

As a post script to my post above I would point out that I think all the players in the slave trade were equally culpable lest it be thought I am laying particular blame at the door of the Spanish. Also, I would not have any desire to meet either an Aztec priest or Torquemada unless armed with a Challenger tank.

 

[Radrook]

Death was around before anyone thought up the Jewish God.

GOd doesn't have a nationality.

Does that include all the killings, rapes, fathers sleeping with their daughters, et. al?

No, those things are quite easy to understand since they proceed from mankind-not God.

It was an attempt at humour

Over the net one has trouble telling the difference. Please place a smily next time. : )

It still sounds like a threat to me. Believe in me or die.

Would you let your kids run rampant in your house to the detriment of your other kids who want to live in peace?

 

[SimonD]

GOd doesn't have a nationality.

No, but 'his chosen people' do, and he didn't bother to introduce himself to anyother 'race' of people, so he would have to be considered a 'Jewish' God.

No, those things are quite easy to understand since they proceed from mankind-not God.

But God sanctioned/encouraged/order them. He should take responsibility for his actions

Over the net one has trouble telling the difference. Please place a smily next time. : )

No worries

Would you let your kids run rampant in your house to the detriment of your other kids who want to live in peace?

Well, I don't have kids, but if I did the rules would apply to all of them, equally.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

.......
Would you let your kids run rampant in your house to the detriment of your other kids who want to live in peace?

I think I might stop short of killing them .


Why do the actions of your god need such rigorous defending ?

Why should these arguments even be necessary ?

 

[edge]

Why should these arguments even be necessary ?

Because you have scales on your eyes, you don't see.
The argument or discussion comes from the fact that you don't hear it either.

SimonD,The sacrifice of the cross made all people, Gods chosen people
Radrook posted a link with the explanation didn't you read into it?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

...The sacrifice of the cross made all people, Gods chosen people...

So, god changes his mind ?

 

[SimonD]

SimonD,The sacrifice of the cross made all people, Gods chosen people Radrook posted a link with the explanation didn't you read into it?

Anyone can write something. It still doesn't make it true. Without any testable facts it's just words.

 

[Nogbad]

Anyone can write something. It still doesn't make it true. Without any testable facts it's just words.

Hmmmph! at least you got some words. I answered a question then got promptly dropped

 

[ImproperUsername]

It definitey can be baffling and we are 100% justified in demanding an explanation.

I am reminded of Piers Anthony's fiction work, The Incarnations of Immortality Chronology. God was severely narcissistic and was obsessed with his own reflection, and ignored his creation.

 

[Creekfreak]

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image" It clearly says us and our in this verse that would mean others .

 

[Tumblehome]

Because you have scales on your eyes, you don't see.
The argument or discussion comes from the fact that you don't hear it either.

Would you acknowledge the possibility that it's you who doesn't see? An argument or discussion identical to this one could follow from that premise, as well.

 

[edge]

Would you acknowledge the possibility that it's you who doesn't see? An argument or discussion identical to this one could follow from that premise, as well.

I believed like you once. So I know your side of the argument.

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image" It clearly says us and our in this verse that would mean others .

We weren't the first creation.

Italics are mine,

1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

The seven stars are the angels[c] of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. 7The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. 8Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings.

Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12In a loud voice they sang:


And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.


10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

God the father, then the Son, and the holy spirits.

There are those, the ones around the throne of God, and the ones that have been cast out.

 

[Tumblehome]

I believed like you once. So I know your side of the argument.

Understood, although it doesn't settle whether or not you "see".

 

[edge]

It's more like I had to be shown in so many ways that this is a spiritual world.


If you really want proof you will get what you desire as proof, it takes time.
Even my faith is constantly tested after being shown.

Humankind has been aware that it is a part of a larger community of powers and principalities, seen and unseen, physical and nonphysical, since at least the Paleolithic Age (c. 50,000 b.c.), when primitive artists painted images of supernatural beings on the walls of their caves. As early as the third millennium b.c., the written records of ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia recognized a hierarchy of supernatural beings that ruled over various parts of the Earth, the universe, and the lives of human beings. They also believed in lower levels of entities that might be either hostile or benign in their actions toward humans. The Mesopotamians wanted to be certain that they were well protected by their spiritual guardians, the shedu and the lamassu.


Darlene walked cautiously toward the window, listening for movement outside.
“I heard nothing, but it seemed that the closer I got to the window, the more calm I felt within my soul. Slowly I peeked through the blind.”
Instead of an intruder attempting to break a window and invade her home, Darlene saw two remarkable beings standing in her front yard.
“Both were illuminated in bright white light. They were both dressed exactly the same in long, flowing robes of the purest white material with shimmering specks of gold and silver. There were golden belts tied around their waists. The belts were either twisted or braided; I couldn’t tell which, but they were considerably thicker than regular belts. Shining swords hung at their sides. Both men had shoulder-length sandy blond hair, and incredibly beautiful aqua-blue eyes.”

http://www.fatemag.com/issues/2000s/2007-12article1.html

These stories are everywhere.
The belts are also described in the book of Revelation.
You could say she read revelation and got here description from there or it’s real.
I have read and heard many stories from friends along the same lines.
Some of the stories I have read are from wartime and some have been told to me directly from reliable people.

 

[Reno]

I bet he didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition

NO-ONE expects the Spanish Inquisition!

 

[Hawk one]

I don't see what the ruckus is about. One god, several gods... It's not like it's non-fiction literature, so why bother with such details anyway?