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Witnesses Corroborating Rodriguez's Claims?

Some lies are just lies. This lie stinks.

thewholesoul, I've taken you off ignore so I'll see your retraction and apology.

do hold your breath grravy - merry christmas!!

oh you have taken me off ignore - what a privilege!! do me a favour and put me back on ignore in that way you can satisfy your personality.

check out professor macqueens compilation of the oral histories of 118 firefighetrs it constitute about 12000 pages of testimony.

where's your oral testimony of the firefighters? i didnt find it in your paper. perhaps you need to do more research amigo :)
 
check out professor macqueens compilation of the oral histories of 118 firefighetrs it constitute about 12000 pages of testimony.

where's your oral testimony of the firefighters? i didnt find it in your paper. perhaps you need to do more research amigo :)

And how many of those 118 firefighters think there were controlled demolitions on 9/11?

I'd hate to think twoofers are making absurd assumptions on the FDNY's behalf.
 
do hold your breath grravy - merry christmas!!

oh you have taken me off ignore - what a privilege!! do me a favour and put me back on ignore in that way you can satisfy your personality.

check out professor macqueens compilation of the oral histories of 118 firefighetrs it constitute about 12000 pages of testimony.

where's your oral testimony of the firefighters? i didnt find it in your paper. perhaps you need to do more research amigo :)
link?
 
1 - i am not doubting your sincerity and the credentials of your borther-in-law but the vast majority of firefighters testimony contend that explosives or secondary devices were used in the building. so we have conflicting testimony that does not mean that explosives could not have possibly been planted in the building.

Source ?
 
jeeze where do I begin. First off. Your air tight elevators

Where do the counterweights and cable loops go when an elevator rises? out the side of the building? Or alongside the elevator in the same shaft? Did you know that the weight of the cable alone if not compensated for in bypassed loop slings of counterweights that the elevator cab when rising toward the top would rocket out the top of the shaft from the weight of the cable slack if not compensated for?

secondly.. your "scale model" fallacy

Troofers fail to grasp the problem of scale. Lets dumb this down to child level physics, take the insect analogy. An ant if scaled up to human size would not be able to lift its limbs let alone five times its body weight.

The scaling problem of fire
Combustion in a small box does not behave in the same manner as combustion in a large room. This problem can be demonstrated as simply as lighting a match to a half O model train scale balsa wood house. compare the flame pattern and size to that of full scale house fires which I am certain everyone has witnessed.

I find it laughable when troofers claim the collapse violates physics when there they go building hardware cloth and construction paper models in attempts to demonstrate something they cannot understand. The only thing they demonstrate is that they know nothing of everyday common laymen level physics. There is a segment of the general population who simply cannot visualize things. In my field I bring blueprints to some people who cannot grasp or see elevations that are before them on paper. Its like if you showed them a photo of their uncle Ed and they didn't recognize him until he walked in the door.

are you saying it is impossible to build a scale model of the elevator? i am aware that there would be many logistical problems - as you explain - for example with the cables. but are they insurmountable problems? i beg to differ.

and if you can up with an idea for an experiment to verify your fireball hypothesis then do so. i would be happy to hear one. or are you saying it is impossible to verify your hypothesis through experimentation?
 
are you saying it is impossible to build a scale model of the elevator? i am aware that there would be many logistical problems - as you explain - for example with the cables. but are they insurmountable problems? i beg to differ.

and if you can up with an idea for an experiment to verify your fireball hypothesis then do so. i would be happy to hear one. or are you saying it is impossible to verify your hypothesis through experimentation?

They are indeed insurmountable if your intention is to replicate the behavior of the original elevator and shaft with a scale model. It might not be a bad idea to read the Wiki article on similitude - it's not very long and it should demonstrate the difficulties of modeling.

Computer models are useful because we can test the physical relationships separate of the model and then program the equations into the simulation. Unfortunately there are still limitations, some because our computing power and storage capacity are finite and some because the systems are usually nonlinear (and highly so).
 
The Bolded is an utter lie, and you should retract it, or prove that the MAJORITY of testimony from them indicate this.

I have read many, many testimony (over 100) from the fire fighters, and have found only one or two that even imply such a thing.

You are a liar for this, and you are pissing on their graves.

TAM:mad:

no need for vulgarity.

i pointed to 118 firefighters testimony compiled by professor macqueen. it his HIS conclusion that the vast majority of their testimony supports the hypothesis that explosives were used in the building not mine. so send him an email and call him a liar.

or maybe you want to call the firefighter's that claim explosives were used in the towers liars? in loose change final cut there is a firefighter at the end who swears that the damage in the lobby was not a result of a fireball. why dont you ring him uo and call him a liar, tough guy.:)
 
you want a hypothesis proposed wholesoul...here...

I propose that someone on the 60th floor dropped a grenade down the elevator shaft, and it then exploded in the basement...

Now prove me wrong...prove me right...use full or partial models to do so...there you go.

TAM:)

well if your hypothesis was trying to prove that a grenade would explode down in the basement after you dropped it from the height of 60+ floors and it did explode well then you have successfully proved your hypothesis.

how about dropping some jet fuel down there and let us observe what will happen.
 
i pointed to 118 firefighters testimony compiled by professor macqueen. it his HIS conclusion that the vast majority of their testimony supports the hypothesis that explosives were used in the building not mine.

What about those 118 firefighters? Do they have any opinions on the matter?

I'm not aware of "FDNY for 911 truth."
 
in loose change final cut there is a firefighter at the end who swears that the damage in the lobby was not a result of a fireball. why dont you ring him uo and call him a liar, tough guy.:)

Would that be John Schroeder by any chance?
 
Edit: Dangit! DGM beat me. I'm slow today...

lol! I actually did look up this supposed list. It's a paper published in... *drumroll*... The Journal of 9/11 Studies. :rolleyes:

That says all anyone should need to know about it's legitimacy. But since thewholesoul seems to be a newbie to the Internet, here's the link to the PDF: http://www.journalof911studies.com/articles/Article_5_118Witnesses_WorldTradeCenter.pdf

I actually skimmed over the "testimonies" and in every one I saw, the firefighter mentions one, sometimes multiple explosions. I haven't yet come across any statements that mention explosives.

His conclusion does not appear to be supported by his own paper.
 
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are you saying it is impossible to build a scale model of the elevator? i am aware that there would be many logistical problems - as you explain - for example with the cables. but are they insurmountable problems? i beg to differ.

and if you can up with an idea for an experiment to verify your fireball hypothesis then do so. i would be happy to hear one. or are you saying it is impossible to verify your hypothesis through experimentation?


For why? because a handful of people are incredulous? You know what verified the fireball hypothesis? when it happened again with flight 175 impact of the south tower. Hypothesis verified. We are done with ignorance lies and stupidity.
 
I also need to explicitly point MacQueens conclusions, because...

Conclusions

The two questions with which I began my research have now been answered:

(1) Griffin’s 31 witnesses to explosions in the FDNY oral histories are a subset of a much larger body of witnesses, which I have estimated as having 118 members.

(2) Support for non-explosive collapse is present in this material but is scarce. I have found ten witnesses.

I do not know whether the FDNY witnesses constitute a representative sample of 9/11 witnesses, but it is possible that they do. Certainly, there is no lack of testimony to explosions from those outside the FDNY,[38] and I see no obvious reason why firefighters and medics would be more prone than others to feel that they were witnessing explosions. If they constitute a representative sample, then a minimum of 23% of all witnesses to the Towers’ collapses appear to have perceived, or thought they perceived, explosions that brought down the Towers.

The implications of this for our understanding of September 11, 2001 are very, very serious.


...the "118 witnesses" is merely an estimate on MacQueen's part. He also fallaciously equates "explosion" with "explosives" in (2), which would significantly boost his numbers.
 
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Sorry, but you're wrong. I'm from a firefighter family and have never, ever meet an FDNY member that thought it was anything other than the plane crashes. Besides my brother-in-law there were many other experienced Fire Marshalls there that day and afterwards. 347 of their members died, don't you think that if these professionals even suspected something other then the plane crashes they would have spoken up in a formal manner and demanded an investigation?

Keep in mind that FDNY members also said there was a bomb at Stuyvesant High School that morning, there wasn't.

hey, i am sorry to hear that (seriously) 911 was a tradegy on an epic scale.

According to jim dywerof the new york times, the FDNY oral histories were “originally gathered on the order of Thomas Von Essen, the city fire commissioner on Sept 11th who said he wanted to preserve those accounts before they became reshaped by a collective memory”. The oral histroies constitute about 12000 pages of testimony by 503 FDNY firefighters, emergency medical technicians and paramedics collected from october 2001, to late january 2002

professor graeme macqueen came up with 10 accounts from the 503 testimonies from firefighters that did support the offical hypothesis. thats 2% out of the total. and he found 118 accounts that supported the explosion hypothesis.

it was for this reason that i claimed the vast majority of firefighter's testimony support the explosions hypothesis.

go to youtube EXPLOSIVE TESTIMONY! / MacQueen NYFD 9/11 witnesses

you do know families who lost members are calling for a reinvestigation. what harm would a reinvestigation do, what do you personally have to loose if the request of these families for 911 truth is satisfied?
 
professor graeme macqueen came up with 10 accounts from the 503 testimonies from firefighters that did support the offical hypothesis. thats 2% out of the total. and he found 118 accounts that supported the explosion hypothesis.

I'm sorry son, but its 100% irrelevant what macqueen thinks.

What do the firefighters think?

Do you know? Do you care?
 
No, that white smoke is neither from a basement bomb nor burning jet fuel, but from a burning car well outside the WTC. .

fine, you got me, it was a car. i knew i was being set up but in any case it doesnt prove the fireball hypothesis or remove the possibility that explosives were in the basement.

Bizarre. I have no problem with experimentation done in accordance with the scientific method. The fact is your proposed experiment is seriously flawed due to your limited understanding of the event. That's all.

great - progress made. ok i admit i am no structural engineer but if you could outline any ideas of how such an experiment could be undertaken then super, i have been trying to get one person to come up with an experiment.
 
do hold your breath grravy - merry christmas!!

oh you have taken me off ignore - what a privilege!! do me a favour and put me back on ignore in that way you can satisfy your personality.

check out professor macqueens compilation of the oral histories of 118 firefighetrs it constitute about 12000 pages of testimony.

where's your oral testimony of the firefighters? i didnt find it in your paper. perhaps you need to do more research amigo :)
You didn't even read the first page of my site. I''ll call the waaambulance for you, O fixéd star of ignorance.

What They Heard: WTC First Responder Accounts In and Around the Towers

You said

the vast majority of firefighters testimony contend that explosives or secondary devices were used in the building.


That is a nasty, ignorant lie. You can remain a nasty, ignorant liar, or you can become a rational adult and retract your statement.

Which path will you choose, thewholesoul?
 
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Alright, then.

Who would pay for this "experiment", then ?

of course i wouldnt pay, i am not american. i assume the american tax payer would pay. or a fund could be organised in a truth movement for such purposes.

how do you feel about paying taxes for the development of nuclear bombs?
after you pay for that it might even get used. of the two options i know where i would prefer my tax money to go.
 

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