Question about video on youtube (re-instated from AAH)

[Zlaya]

Hello my debunking friends.

I have a questions about this perticular video:



I'm sure this was asked before, but i do have to ask these, since i can't find anything on it here:

1) do you guys have any clues on when this was filmed (what time of day)
2) do you guys know what project is this clip from - is there more?
3) do you guys hear the firefighter say "Seven is exploding" or am i just imagining things

Thank you very much for your help.

 

[Panoply_Prefect]

I think you'll find more about this video here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75741

and from p.45 here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72425&page=2

and here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2443747#post2443747

Cheers,
PP

 

[Zlaya]

I think you'll find more about this video here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72425
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75741

Cheers,
PP

Ok, i see those threads, and the video was simply dismissed as fake, with no backup.

If the general debunking line for this video that it's "Fake", do you guys know of the original that proves that it's fake? How do you explain the shocked reaction by the people in the video?

Also, see my other questions.

Thank you for your help.

 

[332nd]

Hello my debunking friends.

I have a questions about this perticular video:

I'm sure this was asked before, but i do have to ask these, since i can't find anything on it here:

1) do you guys have any clues on when this was filmed (what time of day)

Late afternoon EST.

2) do you guys know what project is this clip from - is there more?

No and I dunno.

3) do you guys hear the firefighter say "Seven is exploding" or am i just imagining things

Thank you very much for your help.

Sounds more like "The city 's exploding."

 

[Gazpacho]

Hello my debunking friends.

Hello Zlaya.

1) do you guys have any clues on when this was filmed (what time of day)

nope.

2) do you guys know what project is this clip from - is there more?

It appears to have been made by an ABC news camera, and was featured in a documentary produced by Brad Grey Pictures. They might could tell you more, if you ask politely and briefly and don't let on that you're "investigating" anything.

3) do you guys hear the firefighter say "Seven is exploding" or am i just imagining things

No I cannot make out what the firefighter in the background is saying.

I don't know whether the explosion sound was dubbed in or not, but the people obviously react to something (except for the INS officer who apparently has a lot on his mind).

 

[funk de fino]

Did you read the posts? Someone states that the sound is in stereo. Does the camera have stereo mic's?

If not then the explosion has been added later OK?

 

[Panoply_Prefect]

Did you read the posts? Someone states that the sound is in stereo. Does the camera have stereo mic's?

If not then the explosion has been added later OK?

Also, if the camera has a mounted stereo mic, the stereo-sound would be affected by the panning of the camera, whilst a poorly added soundeffect wouldn't.

/PP

 

[Zlaya]

Did you read the posts? Someone states that the sound is in stereo. Does the camera have stereo mic's?

If not then the explosion has been added later OK?

Does youtube change file audio settings/quality during upload? Do you have the original footage to prove your claim?

Really, i would love to see this video proven a fake.

 

[Panoply_Prefect]

It appears to have been made by an ABC news camera, and was featured in a documentary produced by Brad Grey Pictures. They might could tell you more, if you ask politely and briefly and don't let on that you're "investigating" anything.

This here production?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0322733/

http://www.amazon.com/Memoriam-New-...ef=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1198332866&sr=8-2

 

[fitzgibbon]

Did you read the posts? Someone states that the sound is in stereo. Does the camera have stereo mic's?

If not then the explosion has been added later OK?

Does youtube change file audio settings/quality during upload? Do you have the original footage to prove your claim?

Really, i would love to see this video proven a fake.

funk de fino,

News camcorder mics are mono as general practice. There just isn't any percentage in having a stereo mic as you'd tie-up two tape tracks for production quality that would virtually never be used.


Zlaya,
No, youtube doesn't change the audio settings (and couldn't make stereo out of a mono signal). Listening to that clip, the "explosion" is inconsistent with any of the other audio in that clip. As presented, the whole clip's in mono but the "explosion" by virtue of its presence and general sound quality is inconsistent with any of the other sync audio. That's a polite way of saying the "explosion" audio wasn't recorded by the microphone that was recording the guys in the clip. That waves a big red flag of FAIL insofar as this being an actual, unmodified clip from the day. This is a clear fake and on the 'evidence' of this clip alone, it isn't incumbent on anybody else to waste time digging for the original to additionally prove otherwise.

 

[BigAl]

IMO, the guys at the phone are reacting to being called by their friends, possibly people they thought had died. Yes the guy holding the handset appears to duck, but not much for a genuine explosion and his friend at the left of the frame, doesn't. He and he can see the friends coming, so it's not a surprise.

 

[fitzgibbon]

IMO, the guys at the phone are reacting to being called by their friends, possibly people they thought had died. Yes the guy holding the handset appears to duck, but not much for a genuine explosion and his friend at the left of the frame, doesn't. He and he can see the friends coming, so it's not a surprise.

There may have been some sort of noise in that general direction as he does kind of look up a bit when he turns around. That said, given the loudness of the "explosion" his mildness of ducking and as you pointed out, the lack of reaction of his buddy or the other arriving firemen also flags this as FAIL

 

[slyjoe]

...snip

Zlaya,
No, youtube doesn't change the audio settings (and couldn't make stereo out of a mono signal). Listening to that clip, the "explosion" is inconsistent with any of the other audio in that clip. As presented, the whole clip's in mono but the "explosion" by virtue of its presence and general sound quality is inconsistent with any of the other sync audio. That's a polite way of saying the "explosion" audio wasn't recorded by the microphone that was recording the guys in the clip. That waves a big red flag of FAIL insofar as this being an actual, unmodified clip from the day. This is a clear fake and on the 'evidence' of this clip alone, it isn't incumbent on anybody else to waste time digging for the original to additionally prove otherwise.

As far as I know, Youtube now (since Jan 07) re-encodes video to a standard frame size and turns stereo audio into mono. There is a way to upload Flash files with stereo audio, but any other format will be converted by youtube (IIRC).

 

[fitzgibbon]

That being the case then I sit corrected on that point. However, even listening to the clip, for a number of reasons it's clear that the sound quality of the "explosion" is just wrong for something purporting to be what it claims.

 

[slyjoe]

Agreed, and it could have stereo portions as it was upload in August 2006.

 

[danielk]

Wait, if I remember that other thread correctly, the person who said it was a fake because it's a stereo signal didn't just look at the number of channels. The channels were actually different, and in a manner which clearly indicated that a true stereo signal had been mixed in.

At least that was my understanding of the argument.

 

[calebprime]

I believe it was Ketseboros--worthless aging hippy...if memory serves, which it doesn't, sometimes.

He analyzed the width of the stereo signal using a meter and his trained ears.

 

[fitzgibbon]

I believe it was Ketseboros--worthless aging hippy...if memory serves, which it doesn't, sometimes.

He analyzed the width of the stereo signal using a meter and his trained ears.

Quite honestly, it's obvious without anything more sophisticated than a pair of speakers and some basic gray matter for analysis. As I said, the sound quality of the "explosion" is at odds with the rest of the audio. There's a depth to it (even in mono) that gives it artifacts that it shouldn't have had the sound been recorded by the same microphone that was recording the sync. That said, a phase meter'd be a nice adjunct to back me up if it were close. But this isn't so nothing sophisticated required to call 'bunk'.

 

[CptColumbo]

When I was a news cameraman, if I didn't have a reporter with me, there would be a "shotgun" mic mounted on the camera. While this wouldn't completely remove sound outside the focus of the microphone, it would not be IMO as consistantly sharp as it was in that clip. Of course it would depend on the equipment being used, I can only speak from my experiences 10 years ago in a much smaller market than NYC.

I would also expect more sudden movement from the camera if he heard an explosion, IMO he seems to be panning to get the other firefighters in the shot.

 

[FactCheck]

I don't see why local failures aren't expected well before the total collapse. A floor may have collapsed onto another well before global collapse. There were also 12 large transformers which use oil to cool them. I would expect them to explode as the fires spread. Steel makes an explosive sound when it snaps.

Add column trees from the north tower hanging on the side of buildings and falling off later.

So there are four logical reasons for loud sounds to be heard.

Explosions were also heard before the Madrid tower upper level collapse. I see nothing that has to be debunked. It just confirms that the building was getting progressively worse. No explosives needed.

The point is stop looking for explosive sounds before a building collapse to prove something, it doesn't.