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Teddy Muhammad

Darat said:
Couldn't disagree more with your opinion that Sudanese people in Sudan complaining and protesting against this is not positive. How do you think the situation will ever improve if Sudanese people don't start to complain and protest about this type of stupidity?
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Darat said:
It depends what the aid is - if it is direct humanitarian aid I wouldn't want it to stop because of this. (For all this is stupid, for all it is atrocious it is not as atrocious as not helping people in dire need.)
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Then maybe cutting off aid is the perfect thing to do. If the Sudanese people are starting to complain and protest about this type of stupidity, imagine what their reaction might be if they were to find out that those sacks of flour with the Union Jack on them have stopped coming because of their stupid government's stupid adherence to stupid sha'aria.
 
Protesters in Khartoum are marching the streets complaining her sentence is too lenient,and calling for her to be shot!!

Lovely people.
 
BPSCG said:
Then maybe cutting off aid is the perfect thing to do. If the Sudanese people are starting to complain and protest about this type of stupidity, imagine what their reaction might be if they were to find out that those sacks of flour with the Union Jack on them have stopped coming because of their stupid government's stupid adherence to stupid sha'aria.
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It might be but if the choice is about letting someone die and providing a sack of grain even to people in a country so stupid as to have carried out this miscarriage of any kind of justice I'm still for the grain to be sent.

What I think should be done is that the UK should cut off all diplomatic and official ties with Sudan, expel their diplomatic mission and refuse visas or the extension of any existing visa's to Sudanese people, not allow Sudanese officials to have access to UK based financial services and so on (once we have the woman safe of course). Whilst some of those are nothing more than symbolic measures they would send a message that whilst you can do what you like in your country it does have consequences.
 
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mummymonkey said:
Rubbish. How on earth could she have known that naming a soft toy Mohammed, a common boy's name and chosen by the children themselves, would land her 15 days in a Sudanese jail? What utter tosh.
It's as if she'd been hauled up in front of the beak for stepping on the cracks in the pavement.
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You are absolutely correct, this is a completely isolated incident within the Islamic world.

There have been no prior indications that there are Muslims that overreact to this kind of thing.
 
Darat said:
It might be but if the choice is about letting someone die and providing a sack of grain even to people in a country so stupid as to have carried out this miscarriage of any kind of justice I'm still for the grain to be sent.

What I think should be done is that the UK should cut off all diplomatic and official ties with Sudan, expel their diplomatic mission and refuse visas or the extension of any existing visa's to Sudanese people, not allow Sudanese officials to have access to UK based financial services and so on (once we have the woman safe of course). Whilst some of those are nothing more than symbolic measures they would send a message that whilst you can do what you like in your country it does have consequences.
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Agreed. Countries have a choice. The can listen and talk to each other or to a magic sky fairy.

If they are not going to listen to reason there is little point in dialogue. Aid to individuals can continue but at a national level we should break off diplomatic relations.
 
Lothian said:
If they are not going to listen to reason there is little point in dialogue. Aid to individuals can continue but at a national level we should break off diplomatic relations.
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Which I agree with emotionally, but there is a concern that the withdrawl of aid would be viewed as part of the alleged Western plot against Islam by those people who wish to do so. Given that the Sudanese government seems to hold that view, it may may life very difficult for foreign nationals providing humanitarian support.

But I can't think of anything better so I suppose I should just shut up
 
If I was the judge, I'd have invoked the Law of Exact Revenge, a staple of the Old Testament, to which the Muslims also subscribe. I'd have done to that woman exactly what she'd done to my prophet. I'd have instructed the court to go out and purchase a teddy bear, which I would then name after her. The bear, wearing a t-shirt with the slogan 'My name is Gillian Gibbons', would be displayed in a prominent place for a year.

This ruling would satisfy (or at least shut up) everyone concerned. The moderates would be happy with the ruling, which they wouldn't consider too harsh, and the hard-liners wouldn't dare argue it was too lenient as complaining the sentence was a trivial non-punishment would also imply her actions were a trivial non-crime.

Not sure whether all this would be legally possible, of course, but wouldn't it be funny if it happened?
 
SomeGuy said:
You are absolutely correct, this is a completely isolated incident within the Islamic world.

There have been no prior indications that there are Muslims that overreact to this kind of thing.
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I'm unaware of any other fluffy toy offences in The Sudan of late. Care to enlighten me?
 
SomeGuy said:
You are absolutely correct, this is a completely isolated incident within the Islamic world.

There have been no prior indications that there are Muslims that overreact to this kind of thing.
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Of course not, not in of all places, the Sudan ...well, maybe there are. Here's the latest wrap-up on the Darfur crisis:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3496731.stm

Only an estimated mere ("no fewer than:")200,000 prematurely deceased black Africans killed by Islamic militias.
 
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The MCB say the prosecution is bad because there was no intention to insult islam. Does that imply that they would support this sort of action if she had deliberately done it?

On the radio this morning they were speaking to muslims off the street (in London I think). A fair few of them were saying that some sort of punishment was deserved but the sentence was a bit harsh. WTF?!
 
SteveGrenard said:
Of course not, not in of all places, the Sudan ...well, maybe there are. Here's the latest wrap-up on the Darfur crisis:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3496731.stm

Only an estimated mere 200,000 prematurely deceased black Africans killed by Islamic militias.
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That doesn't count according to Mummymonkey, there would have to have been a stuffy toy related incident for her to be able to conclude that some people in Sudan appoint ridiculous significance to the name Mohammed.

Heck, I live in Europe and I knew (before all this crap got in the news) how touchy some Muslims are about anything called Mohammed.

I fully choose to ignore that since I think I should be able to critisize all religions, but because I do, I also try to avoid visiting Islamic nations.

If I were to visit the US I would also be more careful with remarks I make about Jesus and God than I am back here in the Netherlands.
 
I really think i'll rally up a mob of Danes and go singing through the streets, burning Sudanese flags until i reach their embassy, which i will burn down too ....

WAIT!! .... That sounded awfully familliar ;)
 
SomeGuy said:
She should have known that the name muhamed could have given her trouble, of course it shouldn't have, but she could have known.
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She didn't name the bear. Her class named the bear. There was no intended offense, and in fact it was named after one of her class.

I believe it was the fact she was teaching her class about democracy and voting (it's how they chose the name) that has caused some of the problem, as well as her being caught in the middle of an existing political situation.

SomeGuy said:
The fact that people here are so much more outraged over this, compared to the raped women getting whipped, is because she's one of us.
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I resent that implication, and am capable of being just as outraged by many things at once.
 
If god is love, why is it his most enthusiastic followers are almost invariably complete [rule 8]s?

It's time to withdraw all aid from Sudan, as well as ending all diplomatic contact.
 
chillzero said:
I believe it was the fact she was teaching her class about democracy and voting (it's how they chose the name) that has caused some of the problem, as well as her being caught in the middle of an existing political situation.
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The fact that this crap only blew up two months after the incident would suggest you're right.
 
chillzero said:
I resent that implication, and am capable of being just as outraged by many things at once.
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I shouldn't have called it a fact and I'm sure that while it isn't true for everyone, there are some for which it's defenitally a factor.
 
http://www.att.net/s/editorial.dll?...rticle&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt

Calls in Sudan for Execution of Briton
Published: 11/30/07, 8:25 AM EDT
By MOHAMED OSMAN
KHARTOUM, Sudan (AP) - Thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and knives, rallied Friday in a central square and demanded the execution of a British teacher convicted of insulting Islam for allowing her students to name a teddy bear "Muhammad."

The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons, as pickup trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Gillian Gibbons, the teacher who was sentenced Thursday to 15 days in prison and deportation. She avoided the more serious punishment of 40 lashes.

They massed in central Martyrs Square, outside the presidential palace, where hundreds of riot police were deployed, although they did not try to stop the rally.

"Shame, shame on the U.K.," protesters chanted.

They called for Gibbons' execution, saying, "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad."

The women's prison where Gibbons is being held is far from the site. Unity High School, which is closer by in central Khartoum, is under heavy security protection.

The protest arose despite vows by Sudanese security officials the day before, during Gibbons' trial, that threatened demonstrations after Friday prayers would not take place. Some of the protesters carried green banners with the name of the Society for Support of the Prophet Muhammad, a previously unknown group.

Many protesters carried clubs, knives and axes - but not automatic weapons, which some have brandished at past government-condoned demonstrations. That suggested Friday's rally was not organized by the government.

A Muslim cleric at Khartoum's main Martyrs Mosque denounced Gibbons during one sermon, saying she intentionally insulted Islam. He did not call for protests, however.

"Imprisoning this lady does not satisfy the thirst of Muslims in Sudan. But we welcome imprisonment and expulsion," the cleric, Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri, a well-known hard-liner, told worshippers.

"This an arrogant woman who came to our country, cashing her salary in dollars, teaching our children hatred of our Prophet Muhammad," he said.

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