Is Science getting closer to God and the Bible?

[Glen.Nogami]

Think of it as "going to a Greenpeace protest in order to get into that hot hippy chick's pants." You're protesting, but you're not really protesting. You don't care about Greenpeace, but wow, does she have nice legs...

[derail]Nothing, literally nothing is worth supporting that bunch of banality-spewing, groundless-argument-repeating fear-mongers. Seriously. Here's hoping a Japanese whaling ship harpoons the lot of em.[/derail]

As for DOC, I think he's got to be a troll. I really can't see any other way. His frequent absences demonstrate that to me, too. Whenever he needs a self esteem boost, he comes back to look at all the people he's infuriated. Honestly, I think it'd be best to just ignore him. The fact that he isn't interested in debate or truth has been amply demonstrated, so why continue to pay attention to him?

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Simply citing that Jesus told us that the peacemakers are blessed is not promoting religion. Telling us that the peacemakers are in fact blessed is promoting Christianity.

I think it was 'Blessed are the cheesemakers.'

 

[Slimething]

I think it was 'Blessed are the cheesemakers.'

That's what Brian told me, too! I've been resisting posting that for so long. Glad it's you not me!

 

[Ocelot]

Christians who make no attempts to convert people are horrible people.
This sounds like quite a ludicrous statement at first, but I do believe it is true.
Here is why;

If you had knowledge about a planned torture and murder of your neighbor that was going to take place in a couple of hours, and your neighbor was unaware, would you be a horrible person if you did not care, and did not bother to tell them?
I think most would agree, yes, you would be a horrible person.

Christians believe they are in the situation of knowing an impending event.
The event they know is that everyone will suffer eternal torture.
The knowledge they believe they have, is how to avert this horrible event.
Not sharing their knowledge on how to avert this event is the same as the example above, if you do not tell your neighbor.

Stop! I'm already aware of what christians believe thant you very much. The reason I'm going to hell despite being a nice helpful and considerate person is not because I'm anwae3 of the christian message (in fact being unaware would be an acceptable excuse under some theologies) but because I've actively rejected the message placing logic before faith.

There are differences on how Christians believe they should go about converting people.
I was taught that living your life as a Christian, and showing kindness to people, would be the best way to convert people. Leading by example.
Other Christians believe they should go out and tell people pro-actively.
With the first example the logic is "God will take care of it, if you do your part", with the second example the onus is on the person to play a more pro-active part, un-assisted by god.

With the example of the neighbor’s impending doom, how much effort would you go to, to inform your neighbor?
Most people would drop everything they were doing and make it their number 1 priority to inform them.
For anyone who believes Christianity, conversion should be pretty high on their priority list.

DISCLAIMER: While I understand why people evangelize, I still find it extremely annoying

Lets make the analogy a little closer. My neighbour come round my house and tells me I'm going to be tortured at some unspecified point in the future and all I have to do to avoid it is give him one tenth of my wealth and one 7th of my days.

"Are you sure?" I ask him.

"Oh yes," he replies "the radio in my head told me."

"Oh well thanks and everything but I think I'll pass"

Next week: knock! knock!

"Hi again just thought I'd remind you that you're going to be tortured at some specified point in the future"

"Thanks again but no thanks"

Next week: knock! knock!

"It's me again. I just..."

"Look go away and don't come back! I'm sick of your crazy talk"

Next Week: knock! knock!

"Hi Neighbour... Ouch! what did you do that for?"

 

[dacium2007]

All of this crap shows great examples of cherry picking. They go looking for something in the bible once we already know it. You don't for example see them claiming the bible can tell us something we don't know about science.

 

[DOC]

Good point. Conversely, these people worship a torturer so how does that make them good, or at least not horrible?

Well, hey everyone I've been busy lately. I can see "attack the messenger" is in full mode...

With regard to this post, God is not a torturer. God made physical and spiritual laws. God made the law of Gravity since the Bible says there is nothing that God has not made. If you violate a physical law you will have to pay a price. For example, If you walk off the Empire State building you will have to pay the price of death because of the Law of Gravity. God did not torture you. You caused your own death by violating a physical law.

There is also a price to be paid for violations of spiritual laws (just like physical laws). Billy Graham says these spiritual laws are not to punish us, but they are actually in our own best interest. And I believe in society's best interest also. But if you choose to violate a spiritual law (just like the Empire State Building example) a price has to be paid. God did not torture you. You brought it upon yourself by violating laws that are in place for our own best interest and society's best interest.

 

[H3LL]

There is also a price to be paid for violations of spiritual laws (just like physical laws). Billy Graham says these spiritual laws are not to punish us, but they are actually in our own best interest. And I believe in society's best interest also. But if you choose to violate a spiritual law (just like the Empire State Building example) a price has to be paid.

What's the "price to be paid" for being a lying, liar then?

.

 

[Lothian]

God is not a torturer... the Bible says there is nothing that God has not made.

So God made Necrotizing fasciitis^WP . What is that paying the price for ?

 

[wollery]

Well, hey everyone I've been busy lately. I can see "attack the messenger" is in full mode...

Nice way to ignore all of the posts that actually blow your arguments out of the water.

With regard to this post, God is not a torturer. God made physical and spiritual laws. God made the law of Gravity since the Bible says there is nothing that God has not made. If you violate a physical law you will have to pay a price. For example, If you walk off the Empire State building you will have to pay the price of death because of the Law of Gravity. God did not torture you. You caused your own death by violating a physical law.

There is also a price to be paid for violations of spiritual laws (just like physical laws). Billy Graham says these spiritual laws are not to punish us, but they are actually in our own best interest. And I believe in society's best interest also. But if you choose to violate a spiritual law (just like the Empire State Building example) a price has to be paid. God did not torture you. You brought it upon yourself by violating laws that are in place for our own best interest and society's best interest.

False analogy. That gravity exists is blatantly obvious to anyone who isn't totally insane, so walking off the Empire State building would be the act of someone clearly not in their right mind. Spiritual laws, on the other hand depend not only on the religion that you consider, but also which sect of that religion. For instance, Roman Catholics consider any form of birth control as a mortal sin, Protestants do not. So does using birth control constitute a "walk off the Empire State building" or not? I'm confused, and I haven't even looked outside of Christianity, let alone done any more than scratch the surface of the different "spiritual laws".

 

[Safe-Keeper]

With regard to this post, God is not a torturer. God made physical and spiritual laws. God made the law of Gravity since the Bible says there is nothing that God has not made. If you violate a physical law you will have to pay a price. For example, If you walk off the Empire State building you will have to pay the price of death because of the Law of Gravity. God did not torture you. You caused your own death by violating a physical law.

How on Earth do I violate the law of gravity by falling?

As for the 'you chose it yourself'-logic... if we are to go by this logic, no one in the world uses torture as a tool. If I try to flee North Korea and get beaten up for it, it's not North Korean grunts or Kim Jong-il who are at fault - I brought it upon myself for violating their laws. If I am found in possession of heroine in the People's Republic, it's not the Red Army henchmen, Hu Jintao or the People's Republic that puts a bullet in my neck - it's myself, because I broke China's law. I committ Suicide by Chinese Dictatorship.

Shut down Amnesty International, torture and execution without fair trial doesn't exist.

 

[Ladewig]

All of this crap shows great examples of cherry picking. They go looking for something in the bible once we already know it. You don't for example see them claiming the bible can tell us something we don't know about science.

Exactly.

DOC, I'll believe science is getting closer to the Bible right after science documents that serpents can talk (Genesis), the world was once flooded (Genesis), the earth stopped rotating for a day (Joshua), and a man can live inside a fish (Jonah). Until then, the Bible remains a book that tells us very little about how the world actually works.

 

[Taffer]

Well, hey everyone I've been busy lately. I can see "attack the messenger" is in full mode...

With regard to this post, God is not a torturer. God made physical and spiritual laws. God made the law of Gravity since the Bible says there is nothing that God has not made. If you violate a physical law you will have to pay a price. For example, If you walk off the Empire State building you will have to pay the price of death because of the Law of Gravity. God did not torture you. You caused your own death by violating a physical law.

There is also a price to be paid for violations of spiritual laws (just like physical laws). Billy Graham says these spiritual laws are not to punish us, but they are actually in our own best interest. And I believe in society's best interest also. But if you choose to violate a spiritual law (just like the Empire State Building example) a price has to be paid. God did not torture you. You brought it upon yourself by violating laws that are in place for our own best interest and society's best interest.

How about you respond to some other posts, DOC?

Will holding my breath cause me to be punished with lightheadedness?

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

DOC has specifically stated that he posts things for the lurkers. Why he thinks that people reading these threads will agree with his points after seeing every one of them systematically demolished is a bit beyond me.

There’s an element of altruism in trying to convert people you’ll never know you’ve converted. I’m willing to cede ground where merited, but I feel my larger point stands.

Christians who make no attempts to convert people are horrible people.
This sounds like quite a ludicrous statement at first, but I do believe it is true.
Here is why;

If you had knowledge about a planned torture and murder of your neighbor that was going to take place in a couple of hours, and your neighbor was unaware, would you be a horrible person if you did not care, and did not bother to tell them?
I think most would agree, yes, you would be a horrible person.

Evangelism is an attempt to help other people, I’m happy to agree. But why are Christians helping other people? Because it’s commanded of God. Why follow God’s commandments? Because it makes you a more righteous person. Why strive for righteousness? Because only the righteous get to heaven.

Keep asking “why?” of a Christian, you eventually get to I Me Mine. You may go through a lot of they them theirs, but inevitably you end up on a foundational basement of self-interest. Again, this doesn’t make Christianity wrong, only more or less noble when compared to other religions.

Well, hey everyone I've been busy lately. I can see "attack the messenger" is in full mode...

Asking about the purpose of your message is fair game. You shouldn't be afraid of answering -- you should embrace it.

If you’d like to answer, I, for one, would love to hear you out. I think it would make for an interesting discussion, and may even help your case. So far, all you’ve said on the matter is --

I mostly just put the facts out there, what you do with them is up to you.

That doesn't help your case. In fact, much the opposite.

If you cared about your message being heard, I'd think you would jump at the chance to explain your reasons for bringing it to us. We could take it to another thread if it's too much of a derail.

 

[Ryokan]

If you cared about your message being heard, I'd think you would jump at the chance to explain your reasons for bringing it to us. We could take it to another thread if it's too much of a derail.

It's been done before. Not much good came of it.

 

[Slimething]

God is not a torturer.

Rationalize it any way you please.

Here's the case: Your god made the situation. Your god made a rule for no one's benefit except itself (a pretty egotistical one, I must point out). Your god causes people to be tormented for said reason. Your god could stop this at any time for any reason without losing anything.

Bud, I'm not an attorney but even I could convict your god in court in any cvilized country. All your god would be able to do is throw itself on the mercy of the court. How ironic.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Well, hey everyone I've been busy lately. I can see "attack the messenger" is in full mode...

With regard to this post...

Why did you ignore my post where I pointed out that Neanderthal's were shorter than modern humans and only had a braincase 100ccs larger than modern humans and therefore could not be the supposed Nefilim giants you tried to suggest they were?

You're just trolling us aren't you DOC?

 

[H3LL]

I've just found the perfect response to DOC:

"King me, biatch!"



.

 

[joobz]

You're just trolling us aren't you DOC?

It seems that way.

He never responds to direct arguments.
He never admits error.
His arguments are the worst form of popular tripe.
His methods are sloppy, and his conclusions are highly questionable.....

 

[schlitt]

Stop! I'm already aware of what christians believe thant you very much. The reason I'm going to hell despite being a nice helpful and considerate person is not because I'm anwae3 of the christian message (in fact being unaware would be an acceptable excuse under some theologies) but because I've actively rejected the message placing logic before faith.



Lets make the analogy a little closer. My neighbour come round my house and tells me I'm going to be tortured at some unspecified point in the future and all I have to do to avoid it is give him one tenth of my wealth and one 7th of my days.

"Are you sure?" I ask him.

"Oh yes," he replies "the radio in my head told me."

"Oh well thanks and everything but I think I'll pass"

Next week: knock! knock!

"Hi again just thought I'd remind you that you're going to be tortured at some specified point in the future"

"Thanks again but no thanks"

Next week: knock! knock!

"It's me again. I just..."

"Look go away and don't come back! I'm sick of your crazy talk"

Next Week: knock! knock!

"Hi Neighbour... Ouch! what did you do that for?"

You are looking at this from the perspective of a non believer. You need to think like a Christian to understand the logic of evangelism.

From a Christian’s perspective they KNOW that you are going to hell, so if they are nice people (or just want some brownie points), they will try and stop you from burning for eternity.

 

[Tanstaafl]

There is also a price to be paid for violations of spiritual laws (just like physical laws). Billy Graham says these spiritual laws are not to punish us, but they are actually in our own best interest. And I believe in society's best interest also. But if you choose to violate a spiritual law (just like the Empire State Building example) a price has to be paid.

What's the "price to be paid" for being a lying, liar then?

.

You know DOC, every time you lie for Jesus, a demon gets its wings.

I'm just putting the fact out there, what you do with it is up to you.