perhaps not everything is lost for astrology

[Normal Dude]

If anyone wants to have a useful and amicable conversation I will be very grateful, if not, you will remember my posts and laugh for a long time and I will be happy i was of some use at the end anyway, hahahahahahaha

You aren't here to provide a useful conversation, that much is obvious. Yer just here to stir the pot.

To everyone else, please just ignore her; responses are exactly what she is looking for.

 

[Hokulele]

The thing I don't understand is why some of you here, in this forum, seem to be so reluctant about a new aproach and decide to attack the person who proposes it. I know, you may have tried to have your natal chart read and it didn't work for you, did you? because unless you did, you can not be so sure about how astrology works.

Why are you assuming so much about the people who post here? I know how to cast charts using both European and Chinese astrology. If you want to sit and talk about tropical coordinates versus sidereal, fine. Just don't pretend that it does anything at all. It's all bunk. There is no scientific data supporting astrology, and no physical reason why it should work. The closest thing I have seen to astrology working can be attributed to the power of suggestion combined with confirmation bias. That's it.

Would you like and give it a try just for the sake of proving it wrong?

I have tried, and it doesn't work. At all.

For the record, I am not bitter about it at all. I learned astrology as part of a history of science class I took back when I was in college. The course itself was about the history of astronomy, and it was interesting to learn how people over the years have tried to make it work, as well as justify their failures.

By the way, I am still interested in hearing why you believe astrology has to be tied to the date of birth.

 

[Elizabeth I]

Are you a tomato?

I will not share personal information on an interwebs forum. You will NEVER learn my vegetal orientation.

 

[ChristineR]

Proluna, ignore the people who are just acting silly if you can't keep up with them.

Are you claiming that you can tell whether or not a person is likely to be a serial killer from his birth data? If we were to assemble data on 10 or so sadistic murderers, mix them with 100 or so normal people and ask you to pick out the murderers, could you do so?

You can take into account precession, midwives, quantum fields, whatever you think best.

Obviously it is no fair cheating by looking up dates on the web; but I think with some work we could find 10 not at all famous compulsive murderers for you to pick out.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I will not share personal information on an interwebs forum. You will NEVER learn my vegetal orientation.

Pah. That's what all you Aries Taurus Gemini Cancer Leo Virgo Libra Scorpio Sagittarius Capricorn Aquarius Pisces say.

Oh, bugger, they're rolling the credits.

 

[proluna8]

Hello LOCKNAR, thank you for your concepts about my use of English, I feel I have a lot to learn yet and today, the difficulties in finding some appropiate words caused quite a stir. Everything started because I was directed to this site on my search for information about one very specific and quite unknown branch of astrology which is judiciary astrology, I was hoping to be able to find people to discuss specific matters with.
I found a bunch of very interesting people who didn't want to talk about astrology but just express a clear disaproval of it (which is absolutely valid, of course). And I engaged in the discussions because I found them interesting.

My only problem is that it is impossible for me to prove the accuracy of judiciary astrology through stories or anything like that.
I was asked for proofs, I need some volunteer to work with.

Perhaps I am too stupid but what do you answer to me if I ask you to prove medicin works? What do you say? Where do you start?

At the very end, all I wanted was to exchange specific information if anyone here had it but communication was shaky instead, so that is why I say that maybe it is a problem of languages.

As for proofs I could quote Gauquelin, for example and his book "Los relojes cósmicos" (I don't know the title in English but maybe it is similar to that) He wrote this book to prove astrolgy didn't work and conducted several studies about the professions of (as far as I remember) some 2,500 individuals who had Mars somewhere between the Ascendant and the Mid Heaven point. He concluded that, although all of them were militars or surgeons (martial aspect of Mars and the sharp instruments which it refers to), according to his experience, it was not enough to prove astrology worked. In my experience, that position of Mars causes not only that choice or tendency in your career but also very dinamic people who never become a couch potatoe, they are always running marathons, are workaholics, you name it... on the contrary it is almost impossible to find a person with Mars near the Nadir or IC in a gym, and if you do and ask them why they are there, they will tell you someone forced them to go (their doctor or wife, of course) But Gauquelin did a good research to prove just the opposite he wanted to.

See you around, Adriana

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

And I will quote Gauquelin (from "Astrology and Science"):

Every attempt, whether of astrologers or scientists, to produce evidence of the validity of astrological laws has been in vain. It is now quite certain that the signs in the sky which presided over our births have no power whatever to decide our fates, to affect our hereditary characteristics, or to play any part however humble in the totality of effects, random and otherwise, which form the fabric of our lives and mold our impulses to action. Confronted with science, modern and traditional astrology are seen to be imaginary doctrines.

Do you have any more experts?

 

[Hokulele]

Everything started because I was directed to this site on my search for information about one very specific and quite unknown branch of astrology which is judiciary astrology, I was hoping to be able to find people to discuss specific matters with.

Why do you call judiciary astrology an "unknown branch"? It is the only branch of astrology that most people know about.

For those who may not have heard of the term, "judiciary astrology" refers to astrology which is supposed to predict what happens to people as opposed to "natural astrology", which is supposed to predict natural disasters. Few people try to practice natural astrology these days (no money in it I would guess), so when most people refer to astrology in general, they typically mean the judicial branch.

 

[proluna8]

Hello CHRISTINE R, thank you for your words, I was already thinking perhaps I was too stupidly sensitive to be able to participate in these kind of conversations, almost emotionally handicapped!!!!! (this is partly a joke, I'm not so fragile, just a little)

As I already explained, I got here looking through the internet for serial killers dates of birth to study their patterns. I have already studied Dennis Rader's natal chart and found the reason for the killings which is related to the their dates. But I need more information to be able to postulate something so drastic. What I am trying to say is that my study is still on the go.

But there are some other aspects of life which are easier to prove: when you find, in a natal chart, Pluto square or in oposition to Venus and given some conditions like that these aspects are almost exact (I mean with an orb of no more than three degrees) and some other easy-to-determine variables, the owner of the chart is homosexual. (the variables I mentioned are not explained here because i prefer to keep such a sensible subject more or less controlled)
Also when you have Pluto in square or oposition to the Sun, you will have different degrees of instrospection in the person going from a difficulty to express what he feels to plain schizophrenia, depending on the distances between both planets and some transits which will trigger the episodes.
As you see, it is not easy to explain why if, in this last example, Pluto is in the tenth house, the person will say: there's nobody like my mother. And he will have serious trouble in stablishing a relationship with any other woman. What judiciary astrology studies is how different events are going to collaborate during his whole life to convince him of that. So, you will see that his father was absent or worse, his girlfriends dissapointed him, mom always provided everything he needed and more, etc. Of course there are many mothers who act like that, but if the kid does not have Pluto under those conditions his experiences in life are going to be different and he is just going to say: my mom was very good to me when I was a child. (sort of)

Hope it is not very confusing, still, I will continue looking for more information to expand my learning.
See you around, Adriana

 

[proluna8]

Dear Gord, I quoted Gauquelin because it is ironic that he tried to prove his beliefs just by conducting a research which proved just the opposite, isn't that funny?????

 

[Jeff Corey]

..As for proofs I could quote Gauquelin, for example and his book "Los relojes cósmicos" (I don't know the title in English but maybe it is similar to that) He wrote this book to prove astrolgy didn't work and conducted several studies about the professions of (as far as I remember) some 2,500 individuals who had Mars somewhere between the Ascendant and the Mid Heaven point. He concluded that, although all of them were militars or surgeons (martial aspect of Mars and the sharp instruments which it refers to), according to his experience, it was not enough to prove astrology worked. In my experience, that position of Mars causes not only that choice or tendency in your career but also very dinamic people who never become a couch potatoe, they are always running marathons, are workaholics, you name it... on the contrary it is almost impossible to find a person with Mars near the Nadir or IC in a gym, and if you do and ask them why they are there, they will tell you someone forced them to go (their doctor or wife, of course) But Gauquelin did a good research to prove just the opposite he wanted to... Adriana

M. Gauquelin's livre - Les Horloges Cosmiques ( The Cosmic Clocks) est plien de merde. Vis http://www.skepsis.n/mars.html

 

[Hokulele]

Dear Gord, I quoted Gauquelin because it is ironic that he tried to prove his beliefs just by conducting a research which proved just the opposite, isn't that funny?????

And you didn't find it at all ironic to lump military people (those trained to fight and kill) with surgeons (those trained to heal) as having the same aspect simply because they use sharp things? Can we add landscapers, sculptors, and hairdressers to the list as well?

 

[Jeff Corey]

..As for proofs I could quote Gauquelin, for example and his book "Los relojes cósmicos" (I don't know the title in English but maybe it is similar to that) He wrote this book to prove astrolgy didn't work and conducted several studies about the professions of (as far as I remember) some 2,500 individuals who had Mars somewhere between the Ascendant and the Mid Heaven point. He concluded that, although all of them were militars or surgeons (martial aspect of Mars and the sharp instruments which it refers to), according to his experience, it was not enough to prove astrology worked. In my experience, that position of Mars causes not only that choice or tendency in your career but also very dinamic people who never become a couch potatoe, they are always running marathons, are workaholics, you name it... on the contrary it is almost impossible to find a person with Mars near the Nadir or IC in a gym, and if you do and ask them why they are there, they will tell you someone forced them to go (their doctor or wife, of course) But Gauquelin did a good research to prove just the opposite he wanted to... Adriana

M. Gauquelin's livre - Les Horloges Cosmiques ( The Cosmic Clocks) est plein de merde. Viz http://www.skepsis.nl/mars.html

 

[Hokulele]

Never mind.

 

[Jeff Corey]

Emily Latilla? Missed you babe.

 

[proluna8]

Hi HOKULELE, I said QUITE unknown. There are many branches: traditional, scientific (yes that), precessional, genetliac (not sure about the translation), esoteric, vedic and some others i will remember in two or three minutes.
If you go into some sites you will find astrology for the soul, for kids, for pets, for lovers... you name it. Custom-made astrology for anybody who wants to pay for it.

The appropiate term for disasters is to my knowledge "precessional astrology".

Judiciary, you are right, is predictive astrology based on the idea of twelve areas of interest for you. And with one person's natal chart you can, by derivation of the chart, find out if granny is going to survive that surgical procedure, if cousin Louis is going to succeed at climbing the Everest or will die in the attempt... whatever.

I had this idea of judiciary being QUITE unknown because ALMOST nobody wants to know the day of his death or things like that while an increasing number of people are just worried about whether they are going to meet Mr. Right tomorrow and if they are going to have many kids together (the sweet side of the thing I mean)

See you, adriana

 

[lionking]

I completely understand your point, what I am trying to say is that is not possible to judge everything with the same rules. Long ago some people used to think the earth was flat and long before that fire was "magical". Just because we didn't study something and didn't see some proofs, we can not say it doesn't work. As I said at my first post, I have been studying this for five years already and I had my skeptical moments of course and then I found some proofs and I am still studying, trying and learning.

On this path I had to admit many things fell into place like pieces of a puzzle, and you try to be judgemental and the facts prove you wrong. (A workmate asked me a question two months ago about something related with her ex husband, I made some calculations and told her to be careful and tried not to engage in useless discussions with him. Some days after that, she was absent for a couple of days. When I saw her again she was full of bruises because he battered her).
I felt so bad. I was not able to calculate the extent of the damage, but again, i am just a student, I make a lot of mistakes and although everything happened at the day and time I told her, I was wrong, it was not just a discussion. Believe me I felt awful. Now I ask myself. could i have prevented this from happening? I think not, but I don't know. I have lots to learn still.

This is one of the saddest posts I have ever read. You gave astrological advice to someone with a violent ex-husband, and she listened to you and got hurt. Unlike what many people say, astrology is not harmless whimsy.

 

[proluna8]

Hey Hokulele, hell no!!!!!! hahahahahahahaha those ones use instruments to serve stetic purposes (Venus), not ot cut your belly open!!!!! the intention is to heal of course, but please think of a knife as a weapon!!!!!!

 

[Hokulele]

Emily Latilla? Missed you babe.

Could someone please repeat the headlines for the hard of hearing?

 

[Hokulele]

Hey Hokulele, hell no!!!!!! hahahahahahahaha those ones use instruments to serve stetic purposes (Venus), not ot cut your belly open!!!!! the intention is to heal of course, but please think of a knife as a weapon!!!!!!

*Sigh*

Proluna, this is from your post.

As for proofs I could quote Gauquelin, for example and his book "Los relojes cósmicos" (I don't know the title in English but maybe it is similar to that) He wrote this book to prove astrolgy didn't work and conducted several studies about the professions of (as far as I remember) some 2,500 individuals who had Mars somewhere between the Ascendant and the Mid Heaven point. He concluded that, although all of them were militars or surgeons (martial aspect of Mars and the sharp instruments which it refers to), according to his experience, it was not enough to prove astrology worked. In my experience, that position of Mars causes not only that choice or tendency in your career but also very dinamic people who never become a couch potatoe, they are always running marathons, are workaholics, you name it... on the contrary it is almost impossible to find a person with Mars near the Nadir or IC in a gym, and if you do and ask them why they are there, they will tell you someone forced them to go (their doctor or wife, of course) But Gauquelin did a good research to prove just the opposite he wanted to.

Bolding and underlining mine.