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Former conspiracy believer here

Then all I can say is, if we'd had you in charge, the day might've turned out a bit differently. Sad to say, you were not in charge, and the people who were, were unfortunate victims of the so-called "invincible" mindset permeating the American people at the time. Extremely sad, but true.
 
CNN said NORAD was infomed at 8:43 AM.

And NORAD's sole purpose is to organize a defense and counter attack against incoming missiles, bombers, fighters, etc from a foreign territory.

Not to handle civilian aircraft being hijacked.

I'm sure SINCE 9/11 they've had their procedures updated.

But again, pre-9/11, they were 100% meant to defend against military attacks from outside the borders.
 
Then all I can say is, if we'd had you in charge, the day might've turned out a bit differently. Sad to say, you were not in charge, and the people who were, were unfortunate victims of the so-called "invincible" mindset permeating the American people at the time. Extremely sad, but true.

I think we can all see that he would never have been in charge and will never ever be in charge, psychological profiling would put paid to that little delusion
 
Where in that article does it say that it's a steel framed building?

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any references on the building's construction, or even the name of the building. I've been looking for a name to contact to get that information.

One person on another forum, though, made a pretty good case why it is at least very likely that the building was steel framed:

I've never heard of a 12 story building that didn't have a steel frame. Anyhow, fire doesn't weaken stone or cement to speak of, so it can't have been a purely masonry building. Wood?? Naw, they don't even have a lot of wood in Egypt, even if you can build a 12 story building out of it (which I doubt.) Structural aluminum? I suppose it's possible, but that's expensive, and you don't need the light weight in a 12-story structure.

Also, if you look closely at the picture, there appear to be some steel parts strewn about.
 
A major difference between Truthers and debunkers is that a Truther might say "NIST is wrong about such-and-such. Gordon Ross says so." A debunker such as R. Mackey might say "Gordon Ross is wrong BECAUSE...." and then go on to explain Ross' error in detail, with associated calculations, full orchestration, five-part harmony, and 27 8 x 10 color glossy photographs.

See the difference, Real?

Are those 8 x 10 glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one is? :D
 
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Say you wanted to just control Americans a bit more. You draft up the Patriot Act and discuss with your buddies about it. But they're a bit like, Hmmm well you know a lot of people are gonna react big time to this. It's gonna cause demos all sorts of hassle, we'll be accused of all sorts of ****. So, it's time to cause a problem, allow an outcry, and then grandly announce your masterplan to restore order. Cue cheering.
Two problems with your hypothesis:

1) Lack of evidence.

2) How does this control benefit those wanting it considering that Congressional and Presidential elections have not been suspended and thus many of those in control at that time will no longer be there once the next election cycle is completed?
 
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Are those 8 x 10 glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one is? :D
Please take a seat on the "Group W" bench over there, Jennie C. There are a few interesting people there you'll want to meet. :)
 
AA77 is in some ways the most interesting of the four flights on 9/11. It was hijacked for the longest period of time, and yet the military had the least period of time for intercepting it.

Here's why. -Gumboot

Gumboot, your explanation about AA77, the FAA and the radar is fascinating. I (naturally, I'm an ex-programmer, current admin-type) never knew all of this.

One of the things about the film United 93 that I "enjoy" the most (there's nothing really enjoyble about anything to do with that day) is their showing of what went on with the FAA and the ATC's. I don't have a problem with it, their incredulity and lack of ability to grasp what was happening in time to do anything is only misunderstandable by conspiracy nut-cases. But it was very interesting. They did not, however, cover this bit of info that you gave.

(of course, the movie was trying to depict what happened in real-time, and Ben Sliney obviously knew nothing about AA77's disappearance in RT).

We have a friend who is quite antagonistic toward the FAA. He used to be a private pilot (probably still is, but doesn't own a plane), and to him, they're a bunch of blithering idiots. I was talking about some of the crazy ideas of the conspiracy folk, and he went into a tirade about how the FAA should have been able to do "something" (unspecified) about it. I tried to point out the small increments of time involved from one incident to the next, and the total confusion that reigned, but that wasn't good enough.

Should the subject come up again, I will freely crib from your explanation about AA77 :),
 
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I've never heard of a 12 story building that didn't have a steel frame. Anyhow, fire doesn't weaken stone or cement to speak of, so it can't have been a purely masonry building. Wood?? Naw, they don't even have a lot of wood in Egypt, even if you can build a 12 story building out of it (which I doubt.) Structural aluminum? I suppose it's possible, but that's expensive, and you don't need the light weight in a 12-story structure.

He apparently doesn't get around much. The last 4 highrise buildings I've worked on were all constructed out of steel-reinforced concrete. Not a single steel frame among them.
 
I think we can all see that he would never have been in charge and will never ever be in charge, psychological profiling would put paid to that little delusion

Well. All I can say is that I have a very large responsibility in the real world already assigned to me when we do have a public health emergency in South Texas.

Somehow, I passed (already) several batteries of psychological testing administered by numerous governmental organizations.

Maybe that isn't saying much but I'm on the team which says a whole bunch to my contemporaries.

Did you really have to say that? :confused:
 
You could I guess. I could also argue that 13 degrees isn't cold.

Both are rather silly statements to the majority of people I'm guessing.


I guess that would depend on your standard. We had a high of 13 degrees here in St. Louis today, and I didn't consider it cold. Oh, I'm using the Centigrade scale.
 
Well. All I can say is that I have a very large responsibility in the real world already assigned to me when we do have a public health emergency in South Texas.

Somehow, I passed (already) several batteries of psychological testing administered by numerous governmental organizations.

Maybe that isn't saying much but I'm on the team which says a whole bunch to my contemporaries.

Yet your posts already show you would have completely over reacted to a situation and not followed SOP's on the day in question? You also talk from a postion of not understanding anything about getting aircraft in the air with full weapons loads and the timescales involved?

If you do ever have a large emergency in South Texas I hope you stop and think about your actions rather than going off half cocked as you would have done on 911. Someone like that is the last person you would want to control a real emergency IMO.

Did you really have to say that? :confused:

From someone who has already told someone here they "have issues" I will read the hypocrisy into the statement that it deserves
 
No. I'm saying that the legal ban on Ecstasy that now exists was manipulated into being.

And where's your evidence, there's a campaign to reclassify cannabis going on at the moment, and thats a drug you can ingest vast quantities of without serious side effects.

Are you seriously suggesting that the UK would have allowed over the counter sales of E were it not for Leah Betts. How would you ensure people did not take too much? Ecstasy in high doses can be extremely life threatening. There's more danger in necking 20 pills then downing 20 pints, and who's to say such a practice wouldn't be commonplace if the drug was legalised.

Theres not a shred of evidence that a campaign to legalize Ecstasy was brewing and stopped by the Betts case.

Read about the World Bank and IMF. Follow the story in the myriad nonCT sites that exist.

I do know plenty about the world bank and IMF, and don't perceive it to be a intentionally malicious force just misguided. One of the annoying things about anti globalisation activists is their paranoia. The World Bank and IMF, do what they do because they're evil man.

I'd recommend you do some further reading, Joseph E. Stiglitz is a noble prize winning economist and former chief economist of the World Bank, and now an outspoken critic of the IMF. I'd suggest you start with his "Globalisation and it's discontents" for an informed intelligent critique of the flaws of the world bank.

Junkies have authority trips. It's common as hell.

I'm sorry but what on earth are you gibbering on about?

Seriously, you start by claiming that the government uses heroin to keep the political classes from dissenting, and are now rambling on about "junkie authority trips", do you have, anything, anything at all to support a single thing you've asserted.

I can't totally corroborate it, no.

So to be clear you've made a bold claim that the CIA uses profits from the drugs trade to fund "black ops" when challenged on this you have to admit that, no actually, you don't have a shred of evidence to support what you are saying.

Nick I sincerely hope you have never under the jurisdiction of a court of law, that has your standard of the concept of burden of proof.

There's circumstantial evidence. Check in particular ibogaine.

Look, waving me in the direction of google is just tiresome, as is referring to a third drug. Firstly what does ibogaine have to do with your assertion that governments hate ecstasy?

Secondly what does the fact that the government hasn't sanctioned a powerful hallugenic drug, with serious side effects including sinus arrhythmia, as a heroin treatment, yet prove. Seriously what's your point?

I looked at the papers at the time. It was here we go to war, boys.

Sorry no you're wrong.

Hell the news of the world even gave out banners at the stop the war march.

While sure the Sun, and the Mirror were all gung ho, claiming that all media was pro war is just flat out wrong. You've already demonstrated that you've misremembered the reporting of the massive demos, perhaps you should go and look back at what else you've gotten wrong.

It's not just me, you know. A hell of a lot of people believe this CT version of history. It's not because there's hard evidence. As far as I know there isn't. It's because the patterns we're given to account for recent history no longer work for more and more people. They're ready for something else. Let's wait and see what happens.

Nick

Argument ad populom.

Nick alot more people believe the earth was made 6,000 years ago, by a god, who had to come down as his son, to sacrifice himself for the sin's he inflicted upon ourselves. He then rose from the dead, three days later.

Just because they believe it doesn't make it true. And just because alot of people believe the wild unproven, evidence less incoherent ramblings you've brought to this thread doesn't mean your conspiracy theories are any more valid, or any more worthy of my time.
 
You're comparing meteors with human events.

As soon as you get serious, I will.

Okay, I'm going to have to explain this analogy to you, it seems.

You're essentially looking for a scapegoat. Aside from the hijackers, nobody planned 9/11. The only responsibility that remains is possible negligence, but as indicated before (the part you ignored when you said I "got issues") was that western civilisation has grown lax. We're not a police state, either in Canada, the US or most of Europe. Obviously, this creates security problems.

What I was trying to say is that the responsibility is ours. All of us. Our way of life is what made 9/11 possible.

The meteor analogy was simply to illustrate that some people, apparently, will always try to blame someone for their ills. But it's not always that simple.

Is that clearer, now, or do I still "got issues" ?
 
Nick 227

MDMA (Ecstasy) was made illegal in the UK in 1977 and was a class A drug long before it ever came onto the club scene through raves in 1988/89

Leah Betts died in 1995

Please think before you spout on things you have no idea about in the future
 
You could I guess. I could also argue that 13 degrees isn't cold.

Both are rather silly statements to the majority of people I'm guessing.
Take the fires in Southern California as an example. We know fires are likely under certain conditions. There are steps we can take to help mitigate them and measures we can put into place to respond when they do occur, but no matter what we do, some fires will overwhelm our preparations or defy our predictions. Same goes for acts of terrorism.
 

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