Mexican Flag flies over US Flag

Mephisto said:
Would you support Token for calling the employer to ensure that none of his workers were robbers if he passed by on a cold winter day and saw them in ski masks?
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You are good at this.:)

Let us get to the heart of the question at hand:

Do you approve of non-taxpayers using the taxpayer funded system?
 
Tokenconservative said:
But can you imagine what would happen to you if you flew an American flag over a Mexican flag in say, Mexico City?
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I've heard this sort of question before. But rather than just ask the question and move on, as if you have made some kind of point, I would like you to develop the point, please. Why is this question, or its answer, relevant? What point are you trying to make, exactly?
 
JEROME DA GNOME said:
You are good at this.:)

Let us get to the heart of the question at hand:

Do you approve of non-taxpayers using the taxpayer funded system?
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Hmmmmm, this is the OP and I don't think it addresses non-tax payers using the tax-payer funded system.


JOKER said:
Saw this this morning. If I remember my US Flag flying rules, it is illegal for any flag to fly higher than the US Flag inside the United States except for certain Navy services. Anyways, an upset veteran cut down both flags and took the American flag with him.

Of course CNN is quoting a Betsy Ross section of a website for their info. :p

CNN Video
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I was commenting previously on Token's ridiculous assertion that he can tell the status of someone's citizenship by their headgear. Maybe you need to start a separate thread about your subject of interest so as to further avoid derailing this thread. :)
 
Tokenconservative said:
Indeed. And in America, the intent of an illegal flying a Mexican flag above an American flag is quite clear.

I was driving by a gang of manuel laborers one day and noticed that one of them was wearing an enormous sombrero. Now, they don't even wear these things in Mexico anymore, so it was clear that this guy, an illegal, working on a busy street in an American city where we've (citizens, not the mollycoddling politicos) have had it up to here with illegals, was thumbing his nose at us. I noted the name of the company, called their office and asked whether all their guys were legals...noting that one was wearing a sombrero at that location.

Now, maybe he was fired, I dunno....they all look alike to a bigot like me, but the next time I drove by...no sombrero.

Tokie
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Or maybe it was because the large brim of a sombaro is better than most hats at keeping the sun off of you while doing labor on a hot bright day.

<idiot redneck mode>

But I suppose it's pretty clear that he was thumbing his nose at us. Most of the illegal imigrants I've seen in my life are not only smug... they want to flaunt just how illegal they are to make us. They basically want to say "Hey look at me I'm Mexican and I hate the US and think that Mexico is better. So I came here to the wrenched United States only becasue it is illegal for me to do so and thus I can mock your system. AND THERES NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT"

That's the part that gets me... the last part. They know that no matter how much they flaunt being an illegal alongside the public roads of America, where border patrol and customs officials may even pass... there is NOTHING we can do.

The reason is simple: You cannot deport a Mexican because they are able to shoot magic beans from their hairy nostrils. These beans jump... they jump on YOU. And even if you could grab hold of one of them, they can slip away. They're slippery because their backs are all wet. And in addition, they drive magic cars which can jump up and down just like the beans. If all else fails, they can hide for long periods of time by going into a hibernation mode called a "siesta."

They also can communite with eachother by using a secret language that nobody else can decipher; they say that this was imported from Spain. It is said that they can take over your mind and make you do things you will regret the next morning, but only vaguely remember using a substance called "Tequila." They also possess formulas for creating things which can cause some people heartburn.

</idiot redneck mode>
 
DRBUZZ0 said:
Or maybe it was because the large brim of a sombaro is better than most hats at keeping the sun off of you while doing labor on a hot bright day.

<idiot redneck mode>

But I suppose it's pretty clear that he was thumbing his nose at us. Most of the illegal imigrants I've seen in my life are not only smug... they want to flaunt just how illegal they are to make us. They basically want to say "Hey look at me I'm Mexican and I hate the US and think that Mexico is better. So I came here to the wrenched United States only becasue it is illegal for me to do so and thus I can mock your system. AND THERES NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT"

That's the part that gets me... the last part. They know that no matter how much they flaunt being an illegal alongside the public roads of America, where border patrol and customs officials may even pass... there is NOTHING we can do.

The reason is simple: You cannot deport a Mexican because they are able to shoot magic beans from their hairy nostrils. These beans jump... they jump on YOU. And even if you could grab hold of one of them, they can slip away. They're slippery because their backs are all wet. And in addition, they drive magic cars which can jump up and down just like the beans. If all else fails, they can hide for long periods of time by going into a hibernation mode called a "siesta."

They also can communite with eachother by using a secret language that nobody else can decipher; they say that this was imported from Spain. It is said that they can take over your mind and make you do things you will regret the next morning, but only vaguely remember using a substance called "Tequila." They also possess formulas for creating things which can cause some people heartburn.

</idiot redneck mode>
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Now you're getting good at this! I can't tell if you're in agreement with me and mocking Token's bigoted assertions, or if you're trying to "race-bait" me into getting angry enough to respond to the questions you wanted me to ask. :)

Today I shall wear a beret and sport dees "outrageous accent!" ;)
 
Why the hell not?

If burning an American flag in violation of local fire ordinances is considered free speech, shouldn't rescuing one from defamation (or stealing depending on your POV), also in violation of local ordinances, be considered free speech as well?

If both sides of an argument don't have equal rights to protest then it is no longer a free society...which means the guy with the Ka-Bar knife wins unless the flag owner cares to up the ante.

If I were the police chief there I'd put my hands in my pockets, turn around and walk away slowly. Even that would probably get me sued.
 
Dan Beaird said:
If I were the police chief there I'd put my hands in my pockets, turn around and walk away slowly. Even that would probably get me sued.
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How would you handle THIS situation?

Even the President himself has been associated with several flag code violations. After September 11th, a carpet with the image of the flag was placed at the Ground Zero memorial. Not only did the President and the First Lady have their picture taken while standing on the flag carpet, the small carpet was also in direct violation of Section 8b of the Flag Code that states: “The flag should never touch anything beneath it, including the ground.”

http://www.lifescript.com/channels/...uette:R20ORdB6B2YAAHIcH6AAAAAH:20071024134147
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I wonder what that rabid K-bar bearing veteran would have done had he witnessed Dubya & Laura standing on the flag? My guess is not a damn thing! I'm pretty sure this has more to do with Mexicans than proper flag etiquette.
 
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Mephisto said:
How would you handle THIS situation?

I wonder what that rabid K-bar bearing veteran would have done had he witnessed Dubya & Laura standing on the flag? My guess is not a damn thing! I'm pretty sure this has more to do with Mexicans than proper flag etiquette.
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You're quite right of course, the carpet should have been spread on a protective layer of illegal immigrants. I'll call the White House protocol office immediately.

I noticed you didn't bother to answer the question posed in my post? Rabies spreading perhaps?
 
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Dan Beaird said:
You're quite right of course, the carpet should have been spread on a protective layer of illegal immigrants. I'll call the White House protocol office immediately.
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Nice try, but I'm old enough and smart enough to pick my own fights. ;)


Dan Beaird said:
I noticed you didn't bother to answer the question posed in my post? Rabies spreading perhaps?
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Why does it always have to be an armed confrontation with you pseudo-patriotic conservatives. There ARE other approaches you know.

Tokorona said:
In any case, I'm pointing out that try diplomacy first. It even works sometimes.
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As I said before, simply notifying the offending business owner that he was in violation would have sufficed, AND the veteran couldn't have been accused of stealing (of course, he wouldn't have gotten his 15 seconds on CNN - which brings up another question; who notified the camera crew that the guy was going to cut down the flag?).
 
Mephisto said:
Nice try, but I'm old enough and smart enough to pick my own fights. ;)
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Or, seemingly, back away from ones you stand no chance of winning.
Why does it always have to be an armed confrontation with you pseudo-patriotic conservatives. There ARE other approaches you know.
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Holy Mary Mother of God in a sidecar with chocolate jimmies and a lobster bib! (tm Steve Purcell)

You sure did make a huge-ass leap of logic there to come up with the idea that I'm a psuedo-patriotic conservative. You seem to think that the fact he's a veteran or on the other side of some random argument with you means that he's diseased. What sort of bigot does that make you now?

I simply threw the same aspersion at you that you decided to throw at a veteran. Would you prefer I call you baby killer and spit on you? I'm sure at some time or another you ate food that could have saved a starving Ethiopian. Are we going to make this argument with ad-homs or logic?

The reversion to lex talonis is implied by any system that denies equal justice. This is hardly a conservative position but one taken by leftists since the English Civil War. The question is simply one of comparing two acts and deciding if either or both are protected speech and why.

Why is cutting down and rescuing this flag in symbolic defense of the nation any less free speech than someone else burning the flag in symbolic attack?
 
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tsg said:
Do you have any evidence this is, in fact, true?
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We are referring to a hypothetical flag burning and we'll place it in a hypothetical city that has a hypothetical ordinance against uncontained open fires. You'll find such rules in many cities.

Don't believe me? Go someplace and light up a beach towel or sheet and kick it down the street. I expect you'll have some words with the local officials and probably a fine to go with it.

Your question is answered...please continue.
 
Dan Beaird said:
We are referring to a hypothetical flag burning and we'll place it in a hypothetical city that has a hypothetical ordinance against uncontained open fires. You'll find such rules in many cities.

Don't believe me? Go someplace and light up a beach towel or sheet and kick it down the street. I expect you'll have some words with the local officials and probably a fine to go with it.

Your question is answered...please continue.
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I have no doubt there are such rules in many cities. What isn't supported is your assertion that burning a flag is exempt from these ordinances under the auspices of "free speech".
 
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Dan Beaird said:
If burning an American flag in violation of local fire ordinances is considered free speech, shouldn't rescuing one from defamation (or stealing depending on your POV), also in violation of local ordinances, be considered free speech as well?
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I am not aware of any case where free speech trumped property rights. In short is OK to burn your flag, but if you burn your neighbours you cannot claim free speech.
Illegal Graffiti "artists" and other assorted vandals cannot claim "free speech" as a defence, etc etc.
[Flying[/i] the flag was an act of protected speech.

If both sides of an argument don't have equal rights to protest then it is no longer a free society...
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They do, they can protest without infringing on t he property rights of others.

If I were the police chief there I'd put my hands in my pockets, turn around and walk away slowly. Even that would probably get me sued.
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Why should flag flyer's have right to neither speech or property protected?
 
Um... how does one know how to display the flag in outer space? I mean, there's not really any up or down. Unless, I suppose you consider "up and down" to be relative to the surface of the earth. Such that if one traced a ray to your position parallel to the center of gravity on the point on the earth's surface which most directly faces you....

Oh crap! The apollo flags are upsidedown! Or... does that not count because the moon is the body which one is standing on? So then, would that mean up and down are relative to the body you are in orbit of? What about when orbiting both the earth and the moon on a figure-8 free-return trajectory?

Also, the flag is not supposed to touch the ground or "Anything bellow it" so then when you take it down exactly where do you keep it? I mean, I suppose if you embedded some diamagnetic material in the fibers then you could have a really powerful magnet keep it in a state of levitation.

and as far as "No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America"

Crap... what if you turn around? I mean, how does one know which way is "right" I suppose you could do it relative to the way the flag is but then if the wind changes direction it would be backwards which would swap right and left by effectively turning things 180 degrees and then you'd be highly disrescpectful....

"except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy"

By "For the personnel of the navy" does that mean that it can only be seen by those in the navy? So any civilians or dignitaries or whatever must close their eyes? Or they just can't do it? What if somebody sees it through binoculars from a far and they're not in the US navy?

What do they mean by at sea? what about in a bay? Or a harbor? Does it count if the ship is in harbor tied to a dock? What if it's next to the dock but the moorings have been cast off? Also, what about a dry dock? What if it's still full of water?

"International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace."

Okay now this one is especially dicey because this could easily cause a national incident or a war. I suppose if you are to display one in a multi-story building you must first make sure there are none on higher floors. For that matter, I think I may have to be extra careful, because if there are aircraft flying with a flag on them in my general area... Well that would be VERY OFFENSIVE

One of the more difficult things may be the whole keeping them at "equal level" because for one thing one must consider the curvature of the earth. Sp then should they remain parallel or perpenticular to the earth's surface or the earth's center? and is that the geometric center or the center of gravity? If it's the center of gravity what about the tides effecting that?

I'd imagine that it's a huge challenge for the navy to display the flag without being extremely offensive in choppy seas.
 
Dan Beaird said:
If burning an American flag in violation of local fire ordinances is considered free speech, shouldn't rescuing one from defamation (or stealing depending on your POV), also in violation of local ordinances, be considered free speech as well?
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It would depend on the fire ordenence and the situation I suppose. I would see the burning of a flag at a protest as a right (although distasteful and offensive) one which is protected.

That having been said, if a bunch of protesters of US Energy policy tried to burn a flag while staging a mass sit in at the transfer station for a huge petrochemical offloading dock... Then I think they probably would be subject to arrest.
 
tsg said:
I have no doubt there are such rules in many cities. What isn't supported is your assertion that burning a flag is exempt from these ordinances under the auspices of "free speech".
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Flag burners are frequently treated with deference by law enforcement officials who want to avoid public relations problems. (And no, it hasn't always been that way). The SC has upheld flag desecration convictions (1989 Texas v Johnson) when statute outlaws it, so I'd agree that flag burning is not an explicitly protected free-speech activity. However, flags are burnt in public protests and the burners typically avoid legal penalties.

Both activities involve a certain amount of civil disobedience, (or crime if you want to call it that) and the question is posed for those who see a difference between them. Personally I don't.
 
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