Was Christopher Columbus obsessed with the Bible

[DOC]

Originally Posted by DOC
Maybe we should of hoped that the Nazis would have figured out that killing Jews and attacking other countries was wrong on their own.

Then why didn't we slaughter them all?

The above partial quote by me is totally out of context. I was being facetious when someone earlier implied that we should have let the Aztecs (who according to one source mentioned earlier killed up to 50,000 people a year from another tribe as a sacrifice to their god to ensure that the sun would keep rising) alone, and they would have figured themselves that what they were doing was wrong. I than jokingly said maybe we should have hoped the Nazis figured out on their own that what they were doing was wrong. I guess I have to stop being facetious because people will either knowingly or unknowingly take it out of context.

 

[strathmeyer]

The above partial quote by me is totally out of context.

The quote wasn't partial, and therefore can not possibly have been taken out of context. Why is it so difficult for you to refrain from lying?

 

[Ducky]

I never said the Catholics won the "war". I was just making a general statement that they (God's ambassadors) won because their still around and popes funerals are big multi day TV events. And who knows where that psychopathic murderer Hitler's remains are. I think his teeth are in a vault somewhere in Russia.

And are you saying there is no evidence that the Vatican was surrounded by Nazi troops in Rome. What do you think would have happened if the pope started to spout off about the Nazis while being surrounded.


And here are some people who thought the pope did a pretty good job under very dangerous circumstances during the war:


"I should like you to take this occasion to express to His Holiness my deeply-felt appreciation of the frequent action which the Holy See has taken on its own initiative in its generous and merciful efforts to render assistance to the victims of racial and religious persecution."

Moshe Sharett, First Israeli Foreign Minister (April 1945)

________________

"When fearful martyrdom came to our people, the voice of the

pope was raised for its victims."


Golda Meir, Israeli Foreign Minister (October 9, 1958)

________________


". . . I told him [the Pope] that my first duty was to thank him , and through him, the

Catholic Church, on behalf of the Jewish public, for all they had done in the various countries to rescue Jews, to save children, and Jews in general."

Franklin D. Roosevelt to Myron C. Taylor (August 3, 1944)

http://www.piusxii.info/pius2.htm

Appeal to incorrect authority, and a whole host of other nonsense.

The catholic church gave hitler the largest leg up in legitimizing his power. I have shown this, as has others.

 

[Herzblut]

The catholic church gave hitler the largest leg up in legitimizing his power.

It is odd to call the Reichskonkordat "legitimizing Hitler's power" because his power was built and maintained by other factors. Maybe you can explain.

There is little doubt that the settlement of this deal with the Vatican raised the international prestige of the administration Hitler/von Papen. But the actual content of the deal showed that the Vatican did not really meet the German Reich halfway. Instead, Hitler made substancial allowences that were sharply critizised in Germany by some leading Nazi figures.

All in all, your blanket statement is not meaningful in the face of reality.

Also take into account that the Cath. Church in Germany had been completely hostile towards the Nazi movement from its very beginning, with the same hostility vice versa.

Before Hitler came to power, the church explicitely b'anned NSDAP membership for all Catholics. It refused to accept any Nazi participation in public events the church was in charge of. The church refused to baptize or marry any NSDAP member, referring to the membership b'an described above.

Cathols were amongst those with the least inclination to ever give their votes for the NSDAP in public elections.

What kind of conspiracy theory are you trying to build, may I ask?

Herz

 

[DOC]

Happy Columbus Day and Canadian Thanksgiving --Oct 8

Yes, Happy Columbus Day, (Its Oct 8 by a federal law)

And while were at it have a good Thanksgiving to all our friends up North, eh.

On January 31, 1957, the Canadian Parliament proclaimed:

“A Day of General Thanksgiving to Almighty God for the bountiful harvest with which Canada has been blessed … to be observed on the 2nd Monday in October.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(Canada)

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

The period where Columbus tries to reform his tranished image (which is what DOC alludes to in the OP) is the subject of a History Channel show on Monday.
http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=247772

Ten years after his famous 1492 voyage, Christopher Columbus awaited the gallows on criminal charges in a Caribbean prison. He plotted an escape--a last voyage that would restore his reputation. This last and most treacherous journey ended with the loss of all four of his ships and Columbus and his crew shipwrecked. Viewers will take a journey, through dramatic reconstruction, to the very heart of Columbus's ordeals: the lush shores of Central America; the remote beach in Jamaica where his ships washed up and the jungle where Columbus fought his own mutineers. Included are interviews with historian and explorer Martin Dugard, and with experts from the US, the Dominican Republic and the UK.

 

[DOC]

The period where Columbus tries to reform his tranished image (which is what DOC alludes to in the OP) is the subject of a History Channel show on Monday.
http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=247772

Well we know Columbus wasn't an angel, but he didn't play favorites -- he hung 6 of his own men for disobedience. And several of his men wanted him to turn back on his first voyage out of fear and some even wanted to throw him overboard. Yes it would have been nice if he was a peace loving hippie. But that wasn't the reality of the times or the dangerous voyages.

 

[Lonewulf]

Columbus also supported slavery.

He wrote in a letter that the first tribe of Amerindians he ran into would "make good slaves". One of the more interesting things I learned in History 1301.

 

[kmortis]

Colombus was so beloved that they rejected the idea to name the US and the contenent it's on after his navigator and chose Ol' Chris instead....

 

[DOC]

Columbus also supported slavery.

So did George Washington, for awhile anyway. Times were tough back then. We can't judge them using our modern day standards.

 

[JoeEllison]

So did George Washington, for awhile anyway. Times were tough back then. We can't judge them using our modern day standards.

So what was the purpose of this thread again?

 

[linusrichard]

So did George Washington, for awhile anyway. Times were tough back then. We can't judge them using our modern day standards.

So Christopher Columbus's use of (don't say support for - he actively enslaved people) slavery is to be ignored/forgiven/whatever because it was okay 500 years ago (never mind that his priest who lived at the same time opposed it), but his Christianity is somehow significant, never minding that just about every European who was anyone at the time was Christian...

it seems like a case of trying to have it both ways. But I guess I would break it down like this:

If the point of the thread is to give "points" to Christianity by associating it with a famous person like Columbus, then it fails - either Columbus's beliefs are relevant to us today, or they aren't. If they are, then we should be able to judge him on his slaving and murdering ways. If they aren't, then how can it be relevant to us that he was a Christian? Or if his slaving/murdering can be ignored because he was a product of his times, why do we pretend that his Christian belief didn't have to do with his being a product of his times?

Columbus day is a celebration of genocide.

 

[joobz]

So did George Washington, for awhile anyway. Times were tough back then. We can't judge them using our modern day standards.

I, again, agree DOC. You are completely correct that we can not judge them for their choices and morality. After all, the bible told them slavery was acceptable. Luckily, this nation was founded on a secular rationality which permitted us to develop a morality superior to what the bible presents.

 

[bokonon]

If you believe in a God and a afterlife your going to be more willing to do very dangerous things.

What do you think would have happened if the pope started to spout off about the Nazis while being surrounded.

Hmmm, I see your point. That might have been dangerous.

 

[bokonon]

I have a feeling somebody or a group of people in a conference room somewhere made the decision not to let students know that his name translates "A pillar in the path of Christ".

I have a feeling it was a bunch of Creationist Christians who thought the translation of "Cristofan Colon" was "Christ's rectum." I guess the only way we can get to the truth of the matter is to flip a coin.

 

[kmortis]

So what was the purpose of this thread again?

just an other venue for DOC to wow us with these little historical nuggets. Cause, you know, if it weren't for Jeebus, the US wouldn't have ever had been foundeded.

 

[strathmeyer]

So did George Washington, for awhile anyway. Times were tough back then. We can't judge them using our modern day standards.

So you're saying we also shouldn't blame them for supporting Christianity?

 

[Complexity]

Has anyone else noticed that the things that DOC posts about never matter?

 

[Cactus Wren]

Has anyone else noticed that the things that DOC posts about never matter?

Anyone? Would you care to try for "everyone"?

You've brought up the question that's asked in nearly every thread DOC starts, the question he never answers:

So what?

If Christopher Columbus was "obsessed with the Bible" -- so what?
If 94% of America's "founding era documents" (whatever that may mean) do mention the Bible -- so what?
If Elvis did sing Gospel music -- so what?
If America's schools did have "Christian roots" -- so what?
If Thomas Jefferson did support Christianity -- so what?

DOC -- SO WHAT?

(He'll never answer, of course.)

 

[JoeEllison]

Has anyone else noticed that the things that DOC posts about never matter?

Yeah, but he's an easy target on a slow day...