94 percent of America's founding era documents mention the Bible

[joobz]

Awhat? How do you figure that?

simply the fact that franklin, Jefferson, washington, Locke among others were deists.

Whoa.

First, the Treaty of Tripoli is from 1796, somewhat after the formation of the US.

It clarified the intent of the founding fathers. Afterall, they were still alive and in office. John Adams was president at the time.

Second, it doesn't matter if the god in question is the abrahamic god. What matters is that it is a god.

It makes all the difference in the world. the US has no inherent belief in any one god. Sure the founders believed in one, but this religion was not written into the constituion. Indeed, they wrote into is a pure seperation of the two entities.

 

[DOC]

It's why he ignores my posts when I quote the treaty of tripoli

Yes I ignored it the 3rd, 4th , 5th , 6th, 7th, 8th etc. you brought up the treaty made with a Muslim nation that supported piracy (and eventually resulted in a war). But as I said the treaty only talks about the concept that the US "Federal Government" was not founded on Christianity. The founders didn't want to tinker with the states rights (at the time) to have an official religion, All the constitution says is that Congress can't make a law that makes an official national religion.

 

[Ducky]

No, his post is clearly a rejection of the claims made in the OP (and subsequently by DOC). At no point did Ducky say, hint, or imply that "the founding papers of the United States don't mention God." That is entirely your invention.


Why can't you simply own up to your mistake? Is it that difficult to say "oh, hey, I jumped the gun a little, my mistake?"

I have claus on ignore, so I'll assume he posted a lesson in pedantry as some attempt to paint me saying something I didn't?

I'll rephrase so as to be perfectly clear for him:

Snakes don't have eyelids, and the constitution never mentions the bible.

 

[JoeEllison]

Yes I ignored it the 3rd, 4th , 5th , 6th, 7th, 8th etc. you brought up the treaty made with a Muslim nation that supported piracy (and eventually resulted in a war). But as I said the treaty only talks about the concept that the US "Federal Government" was not founded on Christianity. The founders didn't want to tinker with the states rights (at the time) to have an official religion, All the constitution says is that Congress can't make a law that makes an official national religion.

So, you're still rejecting reality? Sweet! Don't ever change... not that you could.

Or, are you ever going to accept that treaties are legally binding, even if they are made with countries containing people who you are bigoted against?

 

[Ducky]

Yes I ignored it the 3rd, 4th , 5th , 6th, 7th, 8th etc. you brought up the treaty made with a Muslim nation that supported piracy (and eventually resulted in a war). But as I said the treaty only talks about the concept that the US "Federal Government" was not founded on Christianity. The founders didn't want to tinker with the states rights (at the time) to have an official religion, All the constitution says is that Congress can't make a law that makes an official national religion.

Post #66 also shows you ignore quite a bit else.

 

[joobz]

Yes I ignored it the 3rd, 4th , 5th , 6th, 7th, 8th etc. you brought up the treaty made with a Muslim nation that supported piracy (and eventually resulted in a war). But as I said the treaty only talks about the concept that the US "Federal Government" was not founded on Christianity. The founders didn't want to tinker with the states rights (at the time) to have an official religion, All the constitution says is that Congress can't make a law that makes an official national religion.

Actually, that isn't all the consitituion says. it says there shall be no national religion, nor shall the government prohibit the free exercise thereof. Effectively creating a wall of seperation.

You are correct in your claim that states could have a state religion, but this practice was eliminated when it was found lacking. Afterall, christian states permitted slavery, which is from a secular view, wholly amoral. Christianity does not preclude slavery and even condones it. such a system makes a poor ethical foundation for a government. Luckily, the united states is secular and rejects such flawed thinking.

 

[DOC]

Actually, that isn't all the consitituion says. it says there shall be no national religion, nor shall the government prohibit the free exercise thereof. Effectively creating a wall of seperation.

Yes I knew about the "free exercise thereof part" but it wasn't the main point I trying to make. And the free exercise thereof is why Jefferson "freely exercised" his right to attend Christian church services in the Federal Capitol building for seven years. There might have been a wall in 1947 but not during Jefferson's term.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html

 

[JoeEllison]

Yes I knew about the "free exercise thereof part" but it wasn't the main point I trying to make. And the free exercise thereof is why Jefferson "freely exercised" his right to attend Christian church services in the Federal Capitol building for seven years.

And we go around in the Liars for Jesus circle once again.

 

[Ducky]

Why does DOC ignore post #66, or my pointing of it out? What is he afraid to answer?

 

[joobz]

Yes I knew about the "free exercise thereof part" but it wasn't the main point I trying to make. And the free exercise thereof is why Jefferson "freely exercised" his right to attend Christian church services in the Federal Capitol building for seven years.

if it brings you sollace to believe that this matters in some way, feel free to continue to believe that he was the most devout christian to ever walk this earth. If you honestly believe that jefferson was a devout christian, truth no longer matters to you.

But, that it the freedom offered to you in this wonderful secular nation of ours. The ACLU will continue to protect your rights to believe anything you wish and to exercise your beliefs.

Just don't expect anyone to allow you to preach lies as truth. We will always call you on it.

 

[joobz]

And we go around in the Liars for Jesus circle once again.

I've abandoned any hope for DOC to be honest. Yet, as an American (which I assume DOC is), he has all right to believe in what ever craziness he wants. The ACLU will protect him in that right.

Just as long as he doesn't try to blur the lines between government and religion, I'll be fine with it.

 

[joobz]

Why does DOC ignore post #66, or my pointing of it out? What is he afraid to answer?

truth.

 

[DOC]

Originally Posted by DOC
Yes I knew about the "free exercise thereof part" but it wasn't the main point I trying to make. And the free exercise thereof is why Jefferson "freely exercised" his right to attend Christian church services in the Federal Capitol building for seven years.

And we go around in the Liars for Jesus circle once again.

The following is a Library of Congress website:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html

 

[Ducky]

Originally Posted by DOC
Yes I knew about the "free exercise thereof part" but it wasn't the main point I trying to make. And the free exercise thereof is why Jefferson "freely exercised" his right to attend Christian church services in the Federal Capitol building for seven years.




The following is a Library of Congress website:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html

In response (which also was ignored) I had this post:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2935697#post2935697


Since you are rehashing everything you posted in the Jefferson thread, and there are several (if not many) things you have yet to answer for in that thread, why don't you head on back to that thread and answer them?

 

[joobz]

Originally Posted by DOC
Yes I knew about the "free exercise thereof part" but it wasn't the main point I trying to make. And the free exercise thereof is why Jefferson "freely exercised" his right to attend Christian church services in the Federal Capitol building for seven years.




The following is a Library of Congress website:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html

DOC, all of these points have already been clearly refuted. Continuing to post these items as truth without explaining why the refutations are wrong is the same thing as a lie.

Now, if you must lie to believe in your religion, i won't stop you. but please realize that your lies have no real effect on reality or on history.

 

[kmortis]

The first Library of Congress was held at the Capitol Building. With all that churchin' going on in the Capitol, all the books transmorgified into Bibles. Jealous of all the Bibles, angry atheists burnt down the Capitol dressed as British soliders in 1814 in a vield mockery of the Establishment clause. Jefferson, being a solid, Bible-believing Christian, donated all his books. Woefully, the LOC was built on its current location, making sure that the books never again transmorgified, thereby saving them from redcoat-wearing heathens weilding torches.

 

[DOC]

Originally Posted by DOC
Yes I knew about the "free exercise thereof part" but it wasn't the main point I trying to make. And the free exercise thereof is why Jefferson "freely exercised" his right to attend Christian church services in the Federal Capitol building for seven years.




The following is a Library of Congress website:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html

DOC, all of these points have already been clearly refuted. Continuing to post these items as truth without explaining why the refutations are wrong is the same thing as a lie.

Are you saying all the points listed in the article at the Library of Congress website:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html

have been clearly refuted. You can't be serious.

 

[JoeEllison]

I've abandoned any hope for DOC to be honest. Yet, as an American (which I assume DOC is), he has all right to believe in what ever craziness he wants. The ACLU will protect him in that right.

Just as long as he doesn't try to blur the lines between government and religion, I'll be fine with it.

We can count on him to post the same half-dozen links, tell the same lies, and avoid all the same facts... I don't know what he finds enjoyable about it, how he can live with lying so much, or why he hates America so much, but he does have the right to it. Too bad he'd take away our rights if given half a chance.

 

[kmortis]

Originally Posted by DOC
Yes I knew about the "free exercise thereof part" but it wasn't the main point I trying to make. And the free exercise thereof is why Jefferson "freely exercised" his right to attend Christian church services in the Federal Capitol building for seven years.
The following is a Library of Congress website:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html

Are you saying all the points listed in the article at the Library of Congress website:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html

have been clearly refuted. You can't be serious.

Oh dear. It appears that the current Librarian of Congress, Dr. James H. Billington, has a stron connection to Russia. From his Wiki entry

Dr. Billington is an elected member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, and has been decorated as Chevalier and again as a Commander of the Order of Arts and Letters of France, as Commander of the National Order of the Southern Cross of Brazil, awarded the Order of Merit of Italy, and a Knight Commander’s Cross of the Order of Merit by the Federal Republic of Germany. He has also been awarded the Gwanghwa Medal by the Republic of Korea, and the Chingiz Aitmatov Gold Medal by the Kyrgyz Republic.

You're going to trust the words of James "USSR" Billington?

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Why does DOC ignore post #66, or my pointing of it out? What is he afraid to answer?

And 62 and 64, etc. etc.