94 percent of America's founding era documents mention the Bible

[geni]

9. Every president has been sworn in on the Bible.

Nope. John Quincy Adams took the oath on a volume of law. Theodore Roosevelt didn't use a bible for hist first term. Herbert Hoover due to Quaker issues was affirmed rather than sworn in. Lyndon B. Johnson was sworn in on a Catholic Missal.

 

[geni]

No, I'm pretty sure it is a constitutional monarchy.

And that monarch is head of the state religion which is a form of christianity. By any reasonable definition of the term the UK has historicaly been a christian nation.

 

[JoeEllison]

And that monarch is head of the state religion which is a form of christianity. By any reasonable definition of the term the UK has historicaly been a christian nation.

So, by that definition America is NOT a Christian nation. Thanks.

 

[geni]

Yeah, instead the Constitution contradicts the Ten Commandments... something DOC has avoided dealing with, because it makes his "point" very obviously and stupidly wrong.

UK law doesn't follow it that closely if only because it is a bit hard to come up with a legal mechanism to enforce "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house.".

 

[JoeEllison]

UK law doesn't follow it that closely if only because it is a bit hard to come up with a legal mechanism to enforce "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house.".

Yeah, but the American Constitution directly contradicts it. That's a far cry from "doesn't follow it that closely".

 

[geni]

So, by that definition America is NOT a Christian nation. Thanks.

I didn't give a single definition. I simply made the UK's case for being a christian nation. In the case of the US you could make a different argument based on percentage of population who subscribed to chritianity or by considering the how much effect various relgious positions have on US culture.

The UK is the 18th centry is kinda handy as a test case for a christian nation since almost regardless of the defintion you use the UK comes out as christian. The one posible exception is if you demand it be founded on christian principles since it was mostly founded on the people in charge wanting to rule a larger area.

 

[geni]

Yeah, but the American Constitution directly contradicts it. That's a far cry from "doesn't follow it that closely".

UK (well mostly england the UK bit was only a technicality because someone forgot to outlaw it) allowed trial by combat. Have fun squareing that with the ten commandments.

 

[joobz]

I didn't give a single definition. I simply made the UK's case for being a christian nation. In the case of the US you could make a different argument based on percentage of population who subscribed to chritianity or by considering the how much effect various relgious positions have on US culture.

The UK is the 18th centry is kinda handy as a test case for a christian nation since almost regardless of the defintion you use the UK comes out as christian. The one posible exception is if you demand it be founded on christian principles since it was mostly founded on the people in charge wanting to rule a larger area.

But the point here is if the government is christian, which it isn't.

 

[geni]

But the point here is if the government is christian, which it isn't.

Most of the members of the US goverment are nominaly christian. US is currently ruled by a christian goverment.

 

[JoeEllison]

Most of the members of the US goverment are nominaly christian. US is currently ruled by a christian goverment.

So, you're also saying that America has an Elderly White Male system of government? Or are you just really confused?

 

[joobz]

Most of the members of the US goverment are nominaly christian. US is currently ruled by a christian goverment.

Don't remind me about the current government. But at the very least, when taken to court christian ran policies are found unconstitutional. (see faith based prison reforms).

 

[JoeEllison]

I didn't give a single definition. I simply made the UK's case for being a christian nation. In the case of the US you could make a different argument based on percentage of population who subscribed to chritianity or by considering the how much effect various relgious positions have on US culture.

So, basically, you shift the standard arbitrarily in order to come to whatever conclusion you desire? Sounds like a dishonest way of discussing things.

 

[geni]

So, you're also saying that America has an Elderly White Male system of government?

That would appear to be the case at the present time and indeed most of it's history.

 

[geni]

So, basically, you shift the standard arbitrarily in order to come to whatever conclusion you desire? Sounds like a dishonest way of discussing things.

Nope. You were takeing the position that "if the US was a christian nation we would expect to see X". The problem is that you have not defined the term christian nation so while I can try and use the UK as a counter example I can't be certain that you will not define the term in a way that excludes the UK. So what defintion are you useing?

 

[JoeEllison]

That would appear to be the case at the present time and indeed most of it's history.

So, you're talking nonsense. You should maybe rethink your position.

 

[geni]

So, you're talking nonsense. You should maybe rethink your position.

You might want to consider that I come from the UK and thus when it comes to how a country is run I'm going to tend to focus on de facto rather than De jure if only because I don't feel like trying to defend the position that Mauritania was a democracy between 1984-2005.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

So what is this "Supreme Judge of the World"?

 

[DOC]

What a reach. You'd think that the Constitution, which lays down the law of the land, would be replete with references to Jebus if the founding fathers had meant this to be a Christian nation, wouldn't you?

Not so. Many of the states had official religions and for this reason I believe the founders wanted to leave that up to the states. The new federal gov't back then had much less power than it has now. And there wasn't even a federal income tax until over 110 years later. From what I've read the state supreme courts were usually the final say on things except interstate and international cases. Bottom line back then the states had much more power vis a vis the federal gov't then they do today. Jefferson wanted the Federal Gov't to have the least amount of power as possible. Unfortunately that never happened.

 

[DOC]

Originally Posted by JoeEllison View Post
Yeah, instead the Constitution contradicts the Ten Commandments...




Why?

 

[DOC]

Nope. John Quincy Adams took the oath on a volume of law.

Yeah, but it wasn't because he didn't venerate the Bible.

Quotes by John Quincy Adams --America's 6th president and son of America's 2nd president.


"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” [July 4th, 1821]

"From the day of the Declaration [of Independence]…they [the American people] were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of The Gospel they nearly all, acknowledge as the rules of their conduct.” [July 4th, 1821]

“Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"? [July 4th, 1837 when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts]

“So great is my veneration for the Bible that the earlier my children begin to read it the more confident will be my hope that they will prove useful citizens of their country and respectable members of society. I have for many years made it a practice to read through the Bible once every year.”


http://www.eadshome.com/JohnQuincyAdams.htm
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