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Audiophilia - From skeptic to believer

JoeEllison said:
Yeah, that... and 30 different replacement vacuum tubes, hand-wired boutique amplifiers, oddly-coated strings, and weird custom-wound pickups. Don't even get me started on Eric Johnson, who is a Grammy-winning guitarist who takes 7 years to make an album because he is picky about the "different tones" he can get by swapping out different brands of 9V batteries in his effects pedals.
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I LOVE to make fun of audiophiles as much as the next guy

We like to say around here " If pedophiles molest children what do you think audiophiles do to audio "

I can hear the thought police and word nazis groaning already but whatever.

These right here are kind of bad examples.

IIRC Johnson was able to pick those different batteries in a PCABX test ( http://www.pcavtech.com/test_data/ )

They werent different brands of batteries but different technologies, which could make a humoungous difference if the pedal in question is an effect containing a Low Frequency Oscillator such as a flanger or chorus.

Hand wired amps are pretty much a guarantee you wont end up with chinese crap in your amp of someone stamping out a PC board and then sticking a tube in it just to make it glow. I dont believe that handwired point to point is necessarily better than a WELL MADE PC board, but there are lots of ways to wire the exact same circuit, layout the components too close together and really screw things up. This also is easy to test.

Oddly coated strings? Well if theyre Elixirs for instance, they resist corrosion and keep their new tone for a lot longer...Similar processes are used in many technologies, such as plastic wrap around twinkies or galvanizing nails

Custom wound pickups are an extravagance but they make perfect sense...They change the electrical characteristics of the device. This is easily testable.

Its not like the guy is telling us to buy shakti stones, or these stupid 1500 dollar power cables that are suckering some of my fellow engineers.
 
pipelineaudio said:
IIRC Johnson was able to pick those different batteries in a PCABX test ( http://www.pcavtech.com/test_data/ )

They werent different brands of batteries but different technologies, which could make a humoungous difference if the pedal in question is an effect containing a Low Frequency Oscillator such as a flanger or chorus.

Hand wired amps are pretty much a guarantee you wont end up with chinese crap in your amp of someone stamping out a PC board and then sticking a tube in it just to make it glow. I dont believe that handwired point to point is necessarily better than a WELL MADE PC board, but there are lots of ways to wire the exact same circuit, layout the components too close together and really screw things up. This also is easy to test.

Oddly coated strings? Well if theyre Elixirs for instance, they resist corrosion and keep their new tone for a lot longer...Similar processes are used in many technologies, such as plastic wrap around twinkies or galvanizing nails

Custom wound pickups are an extravagance but they make perfect sense...They change the electrical characteristics of the device. This is easily testable.

Its not like the guy is telling us to buy shakti stones, or these stupid 1500 dollar power cables that are suckering some of my fellow engineers.
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pipelineaudio, I must admit, that was a refreshing post there, No uncomprehensible jargon, and no referring to the price as the defining characteristic of a product.
 
The wire BS is just that BS. Like I have said many times before, I have radio equipment that is in the 450 MHz range, and if the BS they say about wire where true I would not be able to use the radio because of all the distortion they say happens.
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there are differences in wire, no one doubts that, but the question is whether there is any point to having more than lampcord for speaker wire. certainly you don't want to use bare wire for a serious AV setup, but there are a variety of affordable cables not built on an empire of pseudoscience.

and wire matters a lot at RF. the good setups use hardline to avoid the huge losses of junk coax. and RF gear can often use class C amps, which would never be used in audio.
 
illogical said:
there are differences in wire, no one doubts that, but the question is whether there is any point to having more than lampcord for speaker wire. certainly you don't want to use bare wire for a serious AV setup, but there are a variety of affordable cables not built on an empire of pseudoscience.

and wire matters a lot at RF. the good setups use hardline to avoid the huge losses of junk coax. and RF gear can often use class C amps, which would never be used in audio.
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You miss the point, the so-called audiophiles bring up things that have very little to nothing to do with wire at audio frequencies. There is no need for wire for speakers costing thousands or hundreds of dollars.

They say that wire (metal) distorts and/or is not linear, and therefore would make harmonics, and if it did, then RF would not be possible without a lot of harmonic interference.

Also has you know amps have nothing to do with the properties of wire.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
The only thing I found to be worthwhile (and priceless) for my record collection was my DiscWasher.

Funny, it doesn't seem to work as well on CDs.
 
Dan Lavry, one of the best Analog to Digital converter builders out there has made some FAQ's and threads about cables, across the web. I could be wrong but I agree with him.

I have top of the line gear, top of the line clients, but I connect my speakers with 4 cents a foot wire from the hardware store
 
pipelineaudio said:
Dan Lavry, one of the best Analog to Digital converter builders out there has made some FAQ's and threads about cables, across the web. I could be wrong but I agree with him.

I have top of the line gear, top of the line clients, but I connect my speakers with 4 cents a foot wire from the hardware store
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I never said one has to be cheap, just not dumb, 10 gauge is more then needed. Gold plated ends for no corrosion.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
pipeline as it right. I haven't read all of the replys, but improving your audio gear ought to yeild results. I owned a dac1 and it was fantastic, but it was good for obvious, testable, quantifiable reasons. I can imagine the op being given to woo, though, as no woo is needed to explain the fact that proper shielding, grounding, clocking, and a well crafted analog section make a difference. But there is no audiophile woo in that.
 
pounce said:
pipeline as it right. I haven't read all of the replys, but improving your audio gear ought to yeild results. I owned a dac1 and it was fantastic, but it was good for obvious, testable, quantifiable reasons. I can imagine the op being given to woo, though, as no woo is needed to explain the fact that proper shielding, grounding, clocking, and a well crafted analog section make a difference. But there is no audiophile woo in that.
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Do you ever read any of the audiophile woo?

Paul

:) :) :)

I can make you very sick....... :jaw-dropp
 
One of my favorite pages :

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hall/8701/Audio_BS.htm

A true gem from the site ""Special wooden resonator disks made in Asia from a special tree, only found in one area. Placing these under EACH of your components, at strategic locations will remove 'unwanted resonances', and DRAMATIC improval tonal quality. The difference is astounding. These disks of wood sell for around $100 to $400 EACH (depending on size).""

As a recording engineer I have to deal with not only the end user Audiophile BS, but a much more insipid one from people who should know better. As the old guard (those with half a clue) are leaving the industry in search of greener pastures, such as McDonalds fry cook or dog poo picker upper, the newer ultra conformist marketing suckers have moved in. They will 1984 style change what they love/hate based on what a few magazines say this month

Even math is not immune

The summing system in which digital audio workstations mix different signals together is the largest bit of woo speculation I can personally think of.

http://www.google.com/search?q=audi...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

for some search results

Its real simple, 1+1 =2 if it doesnt, something is broken, yet these guys just will not get it

They will buy magic boxes to mix their signals instead, never mind that they are doing a distorting, degrading digital to analog conversion stage they need not do...heres one of the sucker boxes: http://www.frontendaudio.com/Summing_Buses_s/229.htm

yes, let me have 4 of those 8 channel "Phoenix Audio Nicerizer's" for 32 channels at 3200$ a piece to do poorly what my mixing app will do perfectly for free
 
illogical said:
did you take Abnormal Psych 101 and now you want to brag about your entry level knowledge of neuroses? you're gonna learn the hard way to keep your opinions to yourself.
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And what's your major malfunction? I haven't taken any psychology courses at all, and am therefore hard pressed to do any "braggin", but it seems pretty obvious to me that this guy is troubled in some way. And not just from the obsession with his audio gear. Have you read his blog posts?

I don't appreciate your obtuse threat either, sonny jim.
 
Big Les said:
And what's your major malfunction? I haven't taken any psychology courses at all, and am therefore hard pressed to do any "braggin", but it seems pretty obvious to me that this guy is troubled in some way. And not just from the obsession with his audio gear. Have you read his blog posts?

I don't appreciate your obtuse threat either, sonny jim.
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I would agree with you. I couldn't understand the point of the comment from Illogical. It was almost as if he had some personal interest in the health of ES. Neither of us is qualified to make a diagnosis but all the evidence supplied by ES suggests that he has problems. I now know more of his living arrangements than I ever wished to, including the apparent knowledge that he keeps his medications in the 'frig door. The veiled threat from Illogical was also gratuitous and serves no purpose, since it would be difficult to put into effect.
For a moment, it looked as if this thread had diverged to consider real differences in musical instruments and their interfaces, which have no bearing on ES's ideas, but do introduce measurable artifacts. I wonder how ES would eliminate those?
 
Nordost Valhalla for transport = Best flavor

ohp said:
Just nod and smile, and back away...
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That's what people who are afraid of the truth do.


ohp said:
how do you color the sound?
when you say "removes low level detail" what does this mean? is it like a high pass filter?
cleaner? faster?
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If you own an audio system, try some cables, nobody is going to convince you otherwise.

I like the Valhalla power cord coloration, it makes it sounds clean, smooth and open. There is no muddiness or greyness, it's just clean. Valhalla is cleaner than real life. The longer it is, the cleaner it sounds like. I have found that using the longest Valhalla for the transport and shortest for everything else gives the most low-level detail and strongest bass.


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The veiled threat from Illogical was also gratuitous and serves no purpose, since it would be difficult to put into effect.
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one day he'll meddle with the wrong person, and they'll blow his head off. it might not be ES, but it will be someone.
 
illogical said:
one day he'll meddle with the wrong person, and they'll blow his head off. it might not be ES, but it will be someone.
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What absolute bollocks. It was one comment on one apparently obsessive individual on an internet forum. What on earth makes you think I would go even as far as I have here in real life? I am all too aware of my own limitations, thank you very much, and with a near-catatonic relative who has as yet not been successfully diagnosed by anybody, wouldn't dream of passing comment in a face-to-face context. Especially where I might "get my head blown off".

You are certainly no more able to extrapolate from a single post that I am some sort of smug amateur psychologist, than I am able to diagnose this guy with whatever it is he may or may not have, or to suggest that it's just as likely that one of your abrasive one-liners might get you punched in the face by someone in the street. And you certainly have no way of predicting the consequences of such a faux pas on my part, were I to make one in the first place.

There's a lot of "x person is clearly bonkers" comment on these boards, some of them more justified than others. It's the internet: get over it.
 
Valhalla power cord

ExtremeSkeptic said:
I like the Valhalla power cord coloration, it makes it sounds clean, smooth and open. There is no muddiness or greyness, it's just clean. Valhalla is cleaner than real life. The longer it is, the cleaner it sounds like. I have found that using the longest Valhalla for the transport and shortest for everything else gives the most low-level detail and strongest bass.
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Can you offer us any explanation as to the mechanism by which this power cord improves sound quality ?

What type of wire is connected to either end of it ?

I'm guessing at one end it's connected to a long length of cheap domestic electrical cabling and at the other end to a long length of fine copper transformer winding.
 
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