The Viking Leif Ericson was a Christian Evangelist

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I have to disagree.

You're still wrong.

It's no secret to many that the religiosity of the founders of America is strictly censored in American public school Education.

This is a lie.

Just read the forum "Thomas Jefferson's admiration and financial support of Christianity" in the religious section. It should be on page 2 or 3 of that section.

Yeah, you were lying on that thread too.

How many people in the US do you think know that the viking Lief Ericson and his men were Christians.

Why does it matter? I doubt a lot of people in the US know that Marco Polo and Chris Columbus were Italian. There is no conspiracy to silence the "truth", Its called ignorance. It's kind of like how people like you don't know that the USA is a secular, not a christian, nation.

Maybe 1 in 5,000. I have to believe even if all the info Leif Roar stated was 100% verifiable there's no way any American public school student would learn anything about the parts dealing with Christianity.

You believe without evidence. American public school students learn about Columbus's Christianity, there is no reason to think they would not learn about Erikson's. You just want to believe they wouldn't because you have an irrational and paranoid persecution complex about your stupid religion.
 
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I have to disagree. It's no secret to many that the religiosity of the founders of America is strictly censored in American public school Education.

And it's "no secret" to some that the US government was responsible for 9/11, or that world leaders are actually reptilian space aliens in disguise. Doesn't make it true.

Just read the forum "Thomas Jefferson's admiration and financial support of Christianity" in the religious section. It should be on page 2 or 3 of that section.

You mean, the thread where you made numerous ridiculous claims, all of which were shown to be a mixture of half-truths, baseless inferences, and outright lies?

The thread where you claimed Jefferson went to church services in a Rotunda that did not actually exist at the time?

You mean that thread?

It amazes me that you're so proud of it.

How many people in the US do you think know that the viking Lief Ericson and his men were Christians.

How many people in the US know who the frack Leif Ericsson actually was?

I have to believe even if all the info Leif Roar stated was 100% verifiable there's no way any American public school student would learn anything about the parts dealing with Christianity.

You "have to believe" it because for some reason you feel the need to believe things that simply aren't so.
 
Actually, the Saga of the Greenlanders doesn't mention Leiv's trip to Norway at all, and according to the Saga of Erik Red[1], Leiv found Vinland after he'd been in Norway (Roughly translated from a Norwegian translation):

That's correct. The Greenlanders Saga is the one with his trip to North America.

Leiv set to sea, but he stayed out a long time, and he found land that he had not known about before. There wheatefields grew wild, and there grew grape-vines. There were trees there of a kind that's called masur, and of all this they brought samples; some of the trees were so large that they were used for house timbers. Leiv found some people on a sea-raft and took them home with him. In this as in many other things he was magnamious and helpful, and he brought Christianity to [Greenland]. He was later known as Leiv the Lucky."

Now, it's very questionable how accurate this version is; it might very well have been 'massaged' to associate King Olav with the discovery. In general it is dangerous to read the Sagas as accurate portrayals of history.

I think there is little doubt that version is massaged.

The Greenlanders Saga tells us that Leif Erikson bought Bjarni Herjolfsson's ship, prepared it an then sailed directly to Vinland. Barni Herjolfson was the one who originally discovered North America when he was blown off course on his voyage to Greenland. We know Herjolfson was in Greenland at the time because it states in the Short Saga that once he got to Greenland he never went on another voyage but stayed in Greenland with his father.

And according to the sagas, Herjolfson had already told Erik the Red about the lands he had seen.

In the Greenlanders saga it states that sixteen winters after Eric the Red settled Greenland, Leif went to Norway to visit King Olaf. Eric settled Greenland in 985, that means Leif went to Norway in 1001. Except Olaf was already dead by then, having committed suicide in the middle of a naval battle in the fall of 1000. However, if the translation means that Leif visited Norway 16 years after Eric the Red originally went to Greenland when he was exiled from Iceland, that puts the trip in 997. this would make sense as the descriptions in the saga clearly show that Leif visited early in Olaf's reign.

As well, the woman who Leif met and had an illegitimate son with in the Hebrides, Thorgunna, srrives in Iceland with the boy, Thorgils in 1000. this would also seem to further the 997 date.

It further makes sense that Leif learned of the exploits of Olaf (a very bloody rise to power) from Thorer, the man who Leif rescued on his return voyage from Vinland, in 996. and who, with his wife Gudrid and three men, lived in Leif's home. As soon as the weather permitted in 997 Leif headed out.

But the fact remains, Leif bought his boat and sailed directly to Vinland. This makes it very unlikely that this voyage happened after his trip to Norway. I think Leif's voyage was direct from Greenland to North America. All the evidence supporting the Erik the Red version seem to come from the same source. They do not desrcribe anything of the actual voyage, only a couple of the major points.
 
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I have to disagree. It's no secret to many that the religiosity of the founders of America is strictly censored in American public school Education.

I thought you wanted to keep this thread focused on Leiv Eirikson and his Christianity?

I have to believe even if all the info Leif Roar stated was 100% verifiable there's no way any American public school student would learn anything about the parts dealing with Christianity.

As Leiv's religion is a minor detail in an somewhat interesting but not very significant historical anecdote, was irrelevant to his journey to Canada, that is as it should be. There are more important things to teach people about history.

Besides, Leiv Eirikson wasn't the first Greenlander to discover America.
 
I think there is little doubt that version is massaged.

Personally I agree (for one thing, while an over-sea journey directly from Norway to Newfoundland and a return to Greenland might be possible, an expedition starting from Greenland seems much more plausible), but I don't have any historical works about Leiv Erikson at hand, so I don't know what the professional opinion is.

I just don't think there's any direct evidence in the sagas that the discovery of America predates Leiv's conversion to Christianity. The whole thing is a moot point anyway.
 
I'm not going to let you sabotage this forum. If your not going to talk about Leif Ericson or his Christianty. I'm not going to respond.

I would appreciate it if the moderators would ask Joobz to stick to the topic of Lief Ericson and his Christianity.

If the stuff I'm talking about is not important why are you putting up such a fuss about it and why did the "Thomas Jefferson's admiration of Christianity" thread in the religion section get over 16,000 hits.

Again: What does it tell you that many of the first explorers from Europe were Christians?
 
Again: What does it tell you that many of the first explorers from Europe were Christians?

Well for one it tells me that Christianity played a big role in the settling of the Western Hemisphere. And thus once again we have the tremendous influence of Christ and the Bible on Civilization.

From the book "What if Jesus had never been born" by D. James Kennedy and Jerry Newcombe:

"... Columbus saw his voyage as fulfillment of what Isaiah had prophesied about the heathen turning to the true God. About a decade after his expedition, he wrote:

It was the Lord who put into my mind (I could feel His hand upon me) to sail to the Indies. All who heard of my project rejected it with laughter, ridiculing me. There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit, because He comforted me with rays of marvelous illumination from the Holy Scriptures... Our Lord Jesus Christ desired to perform a very obvious miracle in the voyage to the Indies."

The book goes on to say had Jesus never been born it is entirely possible we might never had come over to this continent.

No American public school student will ever learn what Columbus wrote above even though it is extremely important information.

I also think it is obvious that had Christ never been born the Pilgrim voyage never would of happened and the countless other Christians who came over to America for religion freedom probably never would of came. So it can be argued that Christianity was very important in the founding and settling of the Western Hemishpere.
 
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Well for one it tells me that Christianity played a big role in the settling of the Western Hemisphere. And thus once again we have the tremendous influence of Christ and the Bible on Civilization.

Except that Leiv Eirikson's discovery didn't play any real part in the settling of the Western hemisphere; so whether or not he was Christian doesn't tell you that.

The book goes on to say had Jesus never been born it is entirely possible we might never had come over to this continent.

By the same logic, if Mohammed had never been born there wouldn't have been a Moorish invasion of Spain, thus no Castile, thus no Queen Isabella, thus no expedition. Hey! What do you know -- the discovery of America only came about because of Mohammed. I bet you they don't teach that either in US schools.
 
Well........snip
You are arguing that if Christ hadn’t been born, America would still be undiscovered. Idiot.

Sure, God inspired many mass murderers and warring factions, without them the world would certainly be different.

Without slavery progress would not have been made at the time it was. Progress would still have been made, however.

Slavery is bad but it did allow quicker progress in some areas, slower progress in others. Christianity is the same.
 
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By the same logic, if Mohammed had never been born there wouldn't have been a Moorish invasion of Spain, thus no Castile, thus no Queen Isabella, thus no expedition. Hey! What do you know -- the discovery of America only came about because of Mohammed. I bet you they don't teach that either in US schools.

Well maybe that's why Mohammed was rated #1 on that list and Christ was rated #3 in influence. (Just kidding). Actually the author of that book said Christ would have been rated # 1 if more people actually followed the teachings of Christ in their everyday life. By the way Isaac Newton was rated #2.
 
Slavery is bad but it did allow some things to be done quicker. Christianity is the same.


Yea, the Jews (from which Christ came) knew all about slavery. They were slaves for hundreds of years in Egypt and Babylon.
 
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Well maybe that's why Mohammed was rated #1 on that list and Christ was rated #3 in influence. (Just kidding). Actually the author of that book said Christ would have been rated # 1 if more people actually followed the teachings of Christ in their everyday life. By the way Isaac Newton was rated #2.

You lost me. What list? What does Newton have to do with the discovery of the Americas?
 
Well for one it tells me that Christianity played a big role in the settling of the Western Hemisphere. And thus once again we have the tremendous influence of Christ and the Bible on Civilization.

From the book "What if Jesus had never been born" by D. James Kennedy and Jerry Newcombe:

"... Columbus saw his voyage as fulfillment of what Isaiah had prophesied about the heathen turning to the true God. About a decade after his expedition, he wrote:

It was the Lord who put into my mind (I could feel His hand upon me) to sail to the Indies. All who heard of my project rejected it with laughter, ridiculing me. There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit, because He comforted me with rays of marvelous illumination from the Holy Scriptures... Our Lord Jesus Christ desired to perform a very obvious miracle in the voyage to the Indies."

The book goes on to say had Jesus never been born it is entirely possible we might never had come over to this continent.

No American public school student will ever learn what Columbus wrote above even though it is extremely important information.

I also think it is obvious that had Christ never been born the Pilgrim voyage never would of happened and the countless other Christians who came over to America for religion freedom probably never would of came. So it can be argued that Christianity was very important in the founding and settling of the Western Hemishpere.

Crazy.

Pure and simple.
 
I also think it is obvious that had Christ never been born the Pilgrim voyage never would of happened and the countless other Christians who came over to America for religion freedom probably never would of came.
They were looking for religious freedom because they were being persecuted by . . . other Christians!

So if Christ had never been born his followers wouldn't be persecuting other followers who then wouldn't have needed to flee to America? And we should be grateful for this? Christianity persucuting people was a good thing? Um . . .yeah, sounds great, sign me up. :rolleyes:

And what does this have to do with Leif Ericsson anyway, are you saying that if Christ hadn't been born Leif Ericsson wouldn't have gone to Vinland?

I think you should carefully read Leif Roar's post about Mohammed and Spain.
 
Well for one it tells me that Christianity played a big role in the settling of the Western Hemisphere.

Well, that's wrong.

The Western Hemisphere was not settled by Christians, though I understand the Mormons seem to believe otherwise. They're wrong, too.
 
Yea, the Jews (from which Christ came) knew all about slavery. They were slaves for hundreds of years in Egypt and Babylon.

You are aware that the story about Jews being slaves in Egypt was merely a story, right? The whole Exodus bit makes for a good story, but it didn't actually happen.
 
Well maybe that's why Mohammed was rated #1 on that list and Christ was rated #3 in influence. (Just kidding). Actually the author of that book said Christ would have been rated # 1 if more people actually followed the teachings of Christ in their everyday life. By the way Isaac Newton was rated #2.

And it's pretty meaningless. You won't admit that, because you're easily impressed by things you can't do. Like thinking.
 
DOC
Well for one it tells me that Christianity played a big role in the settling of the Western Hemisphere. And thus once again we have the tremendous influence of Christ and the Bible on Civilization.

From the book "What if Jesus had never been born" by D. James Kennedy and Jerry Newcombe:

"... Columbus saw his voyage as fulfillment of what Isaiah had prophesied about the heathen turning to the true God. About a decade after his expedition, he wrote:

It was the Lord who put into my mind (I could feel His hand upon me) to sail to the Indies. All who heard of my project rejected it with laughter, ridiculing me. There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit, because He comforted me with rays of marvelous illumination from the Holy Scriptures... Our Lord Jesus Christ desired to perform a very obvious miracle in the voyage to the Indies."

The book goes on to say had Jesus never been born it is entirely possible we might never had come over to this continent.

No American public school student will ever learn what Columbus wrote above even though it is extremely important information.

I also think it is obvious that had Christ never been born the Pilgrim voyage never would of happened and the countless other Christians who came over to America for religion freedom probably never would of came. So it can be argued that Christianity was very important in the founding and settling of the Western Hemishpere.


so you are saying that if christ had never been born my fathers people would still be on their ancestral lands there would have been no trail of tears no small pox epidemic no being almost driven to extinction because we would have never been "discovered" and our lands "settled"
 
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