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Would you prefer there to be nothing after death?

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
Living forever is much scarier than dying.
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So I've heard. I don't share that philosophy.

Again, are you sure you're using the standard definition of forever?

~~ Paul
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Let's put it this way.

I'll live as long as it is possible for matter to exist while being able to be capable of cogniscent thought, in this universe or in another, in this dimension or in another.

Of course, that's not a view of reality of mine, just a dream of an ideal.

But the will to be alive
greater than any ideals
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I intend to live two centuries, die, then return at some undetermined point in the far future in the form of a computer simulation of myself. Preferably in a computer simulation of an idyllic country setting, or perhaps in the mountains...
 
RandFan said:
Odd...
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What is odd is how sloppy you are. Either that or you do these things intentionally which is rather dishonest of you.

The post by Wowbanger that I was responding to was this one:

The following is philosophy talk, not science, but:

Given the statistical unlikelihood that you would even be born, is it any less statistically unlikely that you could be "reborn": that your consciousness would ever re-establish itself, in another life form, far into the future?

Just something to ponder over, (though I wish anyone the best if luck, if they think they can pursue this matter through science )
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It was very easy to see that that was the post I was responding to because I quoted the pertinent part in my own:

The following is philosophy talk, not science, but:

Given the statistical unlikelihood that you would even be born . . .
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So, was it just sloppiness or dishonesty on your part?
 
I don't think I've come to grips with my own mortality. Death is still something that I fear, I want to live. If I really think deeply about death it bothers me. I cannot fully comprehend the mind simply ending. How can I cease to exist if I feel like I always have? Logically I understand but on an emotional level I cannot comprehend the true nature of my life ending.

To answer the question. I wish for an afterlife where I woke from my "death" to find that I created the universe and everything was merely a program to amuse me. I would not want to live forever as a human though our minds are too limited for that.
 
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Solus said:
I don't think I've come to grips with my own mortality. Death is still something that I fear, I want to live. If I really think deeply about death it bothers me. I cannot fully comprehend the mind simply ending. How can I cease to exist if I feel like I always have? Logically I understand but on an emotional level I cannot comprehend the true nature of my life ending.
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Really? I've never felt that way. Sometimes the thought of nonexistance disturbs me, but at other times I feel that it's like like sleeping without dreaming, for all eternity.

To answer the question. I wish for an afterlife where I woke from my "death" to find that I created the universe and everything was merely a program to amuse me.
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Which is nice, until you die in THAT reality.

I would not want to live forever as a human though our minds are too limited for that.
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I'm not sure if that's entirely true.

And, regardless, we can upgrade our minds. Never underestimate the power of future technology.
 
qayak said:
What is odd is how sloppy you are. Either that or you do these things intentionally which is rather dishonest of you.

The post by Wowbanger that I was responding to was this one:

It was very easy to see that that was the post I was responding to because I quoted the pertinent part in my own:

So, was it just sloppiness or dishonesty on your part?
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That's not my point. I'm showing you how just because YOU think you are in agreement with wowbagger and understand his point doesn't mean that you are. In fact, the post I quoted seems to show that you are NOT so in agreement.
 
RandFan said:
That's not my point. I'm showing you how just because YOU think you are in agreement with wowbagger and understand his point doesn't mean that you are. In fact, the post I quoted seems to show that you are NOT so in agreement.
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So, it is dishonesty.

I am in agreement with the sentiment of his post. The fact that he made a simple statistical error doesn't change that. The post you quoted simply re-makes the error and has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
 
qayak said:
So, it is dishonesty.

I am in agreement with the sentiment of his post. The fact that he made a simple statistical error doesn't change that. The post you quoted simply re-makes the error and has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
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Huh?
 
RandFan said:
You are not making sense. If the odds of you being born were always 1 then you would not be lucky at all.

Please to post Feynman.
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qayaq I think you ignored this post. If the odds of being born is 1 then why would Feynman declare anyone lucky?
 
RandFan said:
qayaq I think you ignored this post. If the odds of being born is 1 then why would Feynman declare anyone lucky?
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I didn't ignore it, I am looking through my Feynman books right now. Unfortunately for you, I always enjoy Feynman and find myself reading the books instead of just finding the part you want.

Patience my friend, patience! :D
 
RandFan said:
qayaq I think you ignored this post. If the odds of being born is 1 then why would Feynman declare anyone lucky?
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Actually, Feynman never said anyone was lucky. We had agreed that that was Dawkins who said that.

One of Feynman's argument's against calculating odds after an event can be found on pages 80-81 of "The Meaning Of It All." I won't copy the whole thing but here is the crux of the argument:

"I now turn to another kind of principle or idea, and that is that there is no sense in calculating the probability or the chance that something happens after it happens. A lot of scientists don't even appreciate this. . ."

". . . Because it doesn't make any sense to calculate after the event. You see, you found the peculiarity, and so you selected the peculiar case."

"For example, I had the most remarkable experience this evening. while coming here, I saw license plate ANZ 912. Calculate for me please, the odds that of all the license plates in the state of Washington I should happen to see ANZ 912. Well, it's a ridiculous thing."

ETA: Thanks for getting me reading Feynman again. Time spent reading him is time well spent.
 
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Lonewulf said:
How did you accomplish that feat? I'm always looking for tips.
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It was an accident, actually, involving an irrational particle accelerator, a liquid lunch, and pair of rubber bands. But never mind trying to re-create the circumstances: all those who have tried, so far, ended looking very silly, or dead, or both.

Lonewulf said:
You just didn't do it right.
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Maybe. It was not like I was even trying very hard.
 
Wowbagger said:
It was an accident, actually, involving an irrational particle accelerator, a liquid lunch, and pair of rubber bands. But never mind trying to re-create the circumstances: all those who have tried, so far, ended looking very silly, or dead, or both.
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Well, I wouldn't mind looking very silly...

Maybe. It was not like I was even trying very hard.
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Tsk!

...

Waaaaaait a minute. If you lived forever, how can you be here now? :eek:
 
qayak said:
Actually, Feynman never said anyone was lucky. We had agreed that that was Dawkins who said that.

One of Feynman's argument's against calculating odds after an event can be found on pages 80-81 of "The Meaning Of It All." I won't copy the whole thing but here is the crux of the argument:

"I now turn to another kind of principle or idea, and that is that there is no sense in calculating the probability or the chance that something happens after it happens. A lot of scientists don't even appreciate this. . ."

". . . Because it doesn't make any sense to calculate after the event. You see, you found the peculiarity, and so you selected the peculiar case."

"For example, I had the most remarkable experience this evening. while coming here, I saw license plate ANZ 912. Calculate for me please, the odds that of all the license plates in the state of Washington I should happen to see ANZ 912. Well, it's a ridiculous thing."

ETA: Thanks for getting me reading Feynman again. Time spent reading him is time well spent.
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No problem. I do what I can.

I have great respect for Feynman as I do for Dawkins. Feynman doesn't tell us why this is a "statistical error" as you declare he only expresses his opinion that it is "a ridiculous thing".

So, what do we have? Dueling authorities with no logic to come to a conclusion.

That said, I think you are missing a subtle point that Feynman is making. It is common for those who subscribe to paranormal or metaphysical concepts to find meaning from peculiar events. This is fallacy. In fact what would be significant is if there were no peculiar events. I concede that I could be wrong though. In any event I see no reason to take Feynman over Dawkins in this instance.

Thanks though.

RandFan
 
qayak said:
I think this is an issue with younger people. When you are young, the process (things likely to kill you) is most likely quite painful. Car accident, gunshot, stabbing, etc.
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I dont appreciate you telling me what I think based on my age, because you are wrong. and I think that I would much rather die in a car accident than of something like cancer, its a lot less painful. seriously. The pain and legnth of death is a concern for pretty much everyone who thinks about it, its not an age issue at all.

I dont think about death the way you are thinking i do at all.
I work in a hospital, i know that knowing whats 'likely' to kill me doesnt mean I wont get cancer next year. i know a car accident can disable just as easily as it can kill. Quite often there is nothing you can do to prevent this kind of life event, it just happens. I drive like a granny and I try to take care of myself, but i realize that anything could happen tomorrow. Im not one of those people who thinks that "it couldnt happen to me". Ive seen friends get cancer in their teens. It was sobering.

As you age, the things that will kill you become more of a relief.
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I dislike of the tone of your entire post. I have had a lot of experience with death and I know some elderly people who have expressed this sentiment to me, but Im not comfortable agreeing with you. You are trying to speak for a large amount of people, and I have a lot of respect for the elderly and think they can speak for themselves. My grandmother says stuff like that all the time and she doesnt have any serious medical conditions, and ive heard the exact opposite sentiment from other elderly people who were in bad shape, that they wanted so badly.


When you are laying in your bed at the age of 100, wearing a diaper and having all your bodily functions taken care of by machines and being medicated to control pain, almost any form of death will be a relief.
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wow, someone has a negetive view of aging. Im looking forward to aging personally, ill know so much and grow so much as a person by then.

Living to be old does not mean you will die in a slow painful manner. Lots of people die in their sleep because of old age, or commit suicide, or have a medical occurance that kills them very quickly, or die in car accidents or from a criminal act, etc etc.

Plenty of people really start living as seniors, becoming happier as a senior than they were at any other period of time in their life. Those people dont want to die even when they are in a lot of pain. these sorts of elderly people always warm my heart when i meet them, often they have found love. its so sweet. :)

as the saying goes, **** happens. You cant count on anything when it comes to dying, its silly to think you can. all i can do is try to take care of myself and hope.
 
the only thing that annoys me about Death (being 17 years old), is that I won't get to see humanity in 100 years.
I guess my never ending curiosity is what makes me sigh when I think of death.

And the thought that you'll stop existing keeps me awake for several hours while in bed.
Trying to think of how it feels to start unexisting is .... I don't know the word. :confused:
How the whole process of unexistance covering your mind is fascinating actually.

If there is an afterlife after all....well great, can't wait.
If I'm going to hell, I don't care I'll very likely find many people I know.
 
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