Will Tax Protestor Standoff Lead To Another Ruby Ridge?

[ponderingturtle]

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Nope. If you treat taxes as any other dept, well it is not a crime to have an unpaid dept. So in going through civil court you are removing any criminal act.

It is not my fault that you are not thinking things through.

 

[Alt+F4]

Don't understand why "supporters" seem to be able to come and go as they please. Can't the FBI and IRS's CID physically prevent access to the property? If not, the fact that they are now convicted criminals can be used to put pressure on them. Maybe the FBI should tell would-be supporters that by helping the Browns, they could be charged as accessories after the fact to a felony, as well obstruction of justice in helping them resist arrest. Then the next time they spot someone bringing supplies in, arrest and charge that person. I'll bet the rest of their erstwhile supporters would suddenly decide that they had more important business elsewhere.

These are folks and their supporters are in crazyville: they don't think laws apply to them, only God can judge them. Ed & Elaine have the support of the neo-Nazis, militias and all the woo woos who believe the New World Order will have us all living in FEMA run death camps by the end of the year.

I think law enforcement is afraid if they try to make an arrest the bulletts will start flying.

 

[casebro]

Folks, so far the Browns have been non-violent tax protesters. I see a good thing that the Feds are choosing a non violent response. Geez, I hope the Feds have better things to do than start a giant fiasco, with people hurt or killed, over a peaceful fugitive* warrant.

Hey, the Browns have aquired wealth, that they can not spend in their own self-made prison. Who needs to put ankle bracelet transmitters on them? They have certainly been sequestered from society, and pohibited from participation in the "American Dream". Seems aproppriate, a crime against our capitalist system resulting in the prohibition of further enjoyment of that system. I think that is just the type of punishment we ought to mete out for embezzlers, stock cheats, crooked accountants. Yup, you've been caught, we confiscalte all of your property, you can no longer hold any employment. We pay the crook the social security level of income. You try to [rule 8] the system, we take our ball and don't let you play any more.

*Are you a fugitive if you don't flee, but just sit at home?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Folks, so far the Browns have been non-violent tax protesters. I see a good thing that the Feds are choosing a non violent response.

Haven't they threatened violence, though? Announcing that you're not going to obey the law, and will react violently when the police attempt to arrest you, is not the same as nonviolent.

 

[MaGZ]

Cut them off from everything - including food and water supply - and wait - unless a shot is fired from the "fortress". Then they should reduce it to rubble.

I see, you mean the Warsaw ghetto approach.

 

[BPSCG]

Nope. If you treat taxes as any other dept, well it is not a crime to have an unpaid dept. So in going through civil court you are removing any criminal act.

From the OP (emphasis mine):

The Browns were convicted in January of multiple federal felonies related to their refusal to pay income taxes for nearly 10 years.

They are criminals, as much so as if they had robbed a bank.

If you or I pay what the IRS believes is an incorrect amount of taxes, it may go to Tax Court for adjudication. If the IRS wins, that is a civil judgment, not a criminal one. If the IRS believes you deliberately underpaid, they can press separate criminal charges.

That's why the IRS has a Chief Counsel's office and a separate Criminal Investigation Division (the CID referred to in the story). Not every tax court case is a crime.

 

[MaGZ]

At Waco, there is disagreement as to who fired the first shot. What is clear, however, is that the FBI engaged in a blatant cover-up, so their claims that they were not the first to fire are rather suspect.

At Ruby Ridge, it is, as far as I know, undisputed that the Feds were the first to fire shots. According what I have read, the arrest warrant was based on trumped-up charges, making the Feds the ones who were criminals. Furthermore, they murdered two people during the standoff.

So it seems to me that there are two obvious things that the FBI should do: make sure that the people they're arresting actually are criminals, and not shoot at people who are already suspicious of you.

At Waco it also was a literal cover-up. The day after the fire, the FBI came in and bulldozed the remains of the buildings destroying evidence of what happened.

 

[MaGZ]

Leave them alone. They may be right. How did the government find them? There are 12 million illegals in this country and the government can't find one of them. One person doesn't pay his tax and the government finds him. Oh boy do they find him and surround him.

It’s all about the government making an example of these people.

 

[MaGZ]

So you want to decriminalize tax evasion?

Another reason to vote for Ron Paul.
No IRS, no tax evasion.

 

[MaGZ]

They stopped attending their trial so they were at home when convicted. Yeah, I don't know why the federal Marshalls didn't go to their home that day and arrest them. Since then they have been able to stockpile supplies and weapons and fringe group supporters.

I don't see how this can be resolved without violence.

What you really are saying is you want violence. Because they are politically unacceptable to you, you want the government to burn them out.

 

[MaGZ]

True, but it seems they are gathering fringe group supporters to their large home to prevent themselves from being taken into custody.

Just who are these fringe group supporters?
Constitutionalists?

 

[MaGZ]

If they don't want to pay their taxes, they should be stripped of their citizenship and set adrift in the ocean.

Can we do the same for the non-White illegals, even though they are not citizens. Once we catch them, put them adrift in the ocean?

 

[The Painter]

This is the way of Thoreau or Gandhi. Civil disobedience. How else to change the ways of the Gestapo (IRS) in the USA? They are not murders or bank robbers. They are tax protestors. Why doesn’t the IRS go after Marc Rich? Oh yeah Clinton pardoned him. It’s a different set of rules for him. Most people pay their taxes out of fear not duty. It is wrong to live in fear of your government.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Can we do the same for the non-White illegals, even though they are not citizens. Once we catch them, put them adrift in the ocean?

If they are not citizens, they are not betraying the country by refusing to pull their weight. It's the treachery I object to, not the cheapness.

 

[MaGZ]

Folks, so far the Browns have been non-violent tax protesters. I see a good thing that the Feds are choosing a non violent response. Geez, I hope the Feds have better things to do than start a giant fiasco, with people hurt or killed, over a peaceful fugitive* warrant.

Hey, the Browns have aquired wealth, that they can not spend in their own self-made prison. Who needs to put ankle bracelet transmitters on them? They have certainly been sequestered from society, and pohibited from participation in the "American Dream". Seems aproppriate, a crime against our capitalist system resulting in the prohibition of further enjoyment of that system. I think that is just the type of punishment we ought to mete out for embezzlers, stock cheats, crooked accountants. Yup, you've been caught, we confiscalte all of your property, you can no longer hold any employment. We pay the crook the social security level of income. You try to [rule 8] the system, we take our ball and don't let you play any more.

*Are you a fugitive if you don't flee, but just sit at home?

"...no longer hold any employment."?

Do you want this to apply to all who have served a prison sentence?

 

[gnome]

Perhaps in another thread, can someone detail the "cover ups" in the Waco case? It's mentioned here as an undisputed fact... and I'm often skeptical when something shocking and damning is presented that way.

 

[RandFan]

We are a nation of laws not of people. Waco and Ruby Ridge were screw ups. I hope they do a better job of this one. In the end the couple will have to be arrested and if the couple in the house use violence to avoid their legal detention then they may die.

Ed Brown said the events did not change his perspective. "I'm not worried about anything. What are they going to do, send me to God sooner?" he asked.

Ah the joys of religion.

It's a good day to die Ed. Enjoy.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

This is the way of Thoreau or Gandhi. Civil disobedience. How else to change the ways of the Gestapo (IRS) in the USA? They are not murders or bank robbers. They are tax protestors. Why doesn’t the IRS go after Marc Rich? Oh yeah Clinton pardoned him. It’s a different set of rules for him. Most people pay their taxes out of fear not duty. It is wrong to live in fear of your government.

No. It is wrong for the innocent to fear their government. I would appreciate it if my government was feared by those who subvert its laws.

 

[Alt+F4]

What you really are saying is you want violence. Because they are politically unacceptable to you, you want the government to burn them out.

Where did I say that you Nazi moron?

 

[RandFan]

It is wrong to live in fear of your government.

First off, I don't live in fear and most don't. I know Russian Roulette is dangerous so I just don't play it. I don't cower in fear from the game. Neither do I cower in fear over my legal responsibilities. Cause and effect. I shoot myself in the head I likely will die. I don't pay my taxes and I will likely get convicted. No fear, just a simple acknowledgment of cause and effect.

Cause and effect. I like the roads, the hospitals, the infrastructure, etc. Those effects don't happen with out the cause of money. The Brown's enjoy the benefits of these things. They could have moved to some place else without the benefits. They chose to stay now they have to pay the piper.

I'm a libertarian but I'm not an anarchist. In the end there is little evidence that anarchy is a viable system.