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So what's this War about anyway?

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Yes, it is a pipe dream, and for all that it is born of good intentions, it is just as dangerous an illusion as "peace in our time" was.

Agreed, and people who seem to hijack the message have no idea what they are talking about (Bono). And I think the day that it will come the closest to fruition will be when every hippy in the world dies off.

But.....


It would be nice though wouldn't it?
 
Absolutely peace would be nice...but, like Zigg said...wanting peace MORE then ANYTHING creates even a bigger problem.
 
Agreed, and people who seem to hijack the message have no idea what they are talking about (Bono). And I think the day that it will come the closest to fruition will be when every hippy in the world dies off.

But.....


It would be nice though wouldn't it?

What atheist leader do you support again?

I mean with all these religious fanciful ideas, I am glad we have such a great supply of rational evolutionist leaders, to put these religious groups in check.;)

I humor you because I love you.You poor little mess of a human being.
 
I humor you because I love you.You poor little mess of a human being.

So.. I'm not quite sure what I am supposed to do here. Am I supposed to respond to you with an irrational response, or am I supposed to ignore you for being a jerk with no common perspective on respecting another persons right to say whatever the [rule8] they want to without fear of being patronised by a thumb-fisted bell end?

Somehow I guess it was the former. I guess I loose LOL!
 
While I fear my opinion may be lost in a thread I have not read fully, and it will be a shame as it is something I have not put into words yet..

I went on the London March back in 2003 against the war in Iraq. I will freely admit I didn't know what the hell I was protesting against, just had the same 16 year old thought about little children dying and Bush stealing oil. I'm afraid that apart from the speakers, it was simply a place for people to smoke weed and feel important.
I began to change my mind slightly when Baghdad started to fall, and I saw the images of the Iraqi's cheering and being free, and started to go 'well, ykno...maybe...'.

I know fully well that the media only reports on the bad aspects of Iraq, but now, seeing the current endless bloodshed, I just feel that it doesn't seem to be worth it. People's families killed, shops destroyed, festivals blown up, and now Al-Qeada stepping in and stirring up this bloodbath.

I dont think anyone would contest that Hussein was a nice guy, but my bottom viewpoint that a country being told to disarm or another country will use their big, massive 'shock and awe' weapons to stop them, killing a large number of civilians who have, nor want anything to do with their pr*ck leader, is a staggering hypocrisy that creates a world that I simply do not want to live in. The message of bringing 'freedom' through military action to the people is not only wierd, it's downright patronising.

Also, the Iraq war has caused holier-than-thou arseholes like Sean Penn and Rage Against the Machine to call America an evil, evil place and Bush someone who loves the smell of arab oil and who would infect young women with cancer if given the chance. People who have always hated America latch onto these spoilt pr*cks, and use it to prove terrorists are a bit, if not purely justified in carrying out their cowardly acts on civilians not the governments they despise. With instances like Abu Ghraib, America comes across as 'they're just as bad as the terrorists' in the eyes of a vast majority of the west and a vast majority of us in Europe. I think you guys really have to come over here to London and see how much America, and Americans in general are mocked and hated.

Surely this is a hippy liberal pipe dream, but presumably the only way to defeat the morons who carried out september 11th is to show a humanitarian angle of society that rallies round all of the western world and stops irrational idiots from saying "All Americans are stupid and they cause all the violence in the world". After September 11th, the whole world was united in sympathy for the US citizens, and Iran held that massive demonstration that denounced those who carried it out. 6 years later, I doubt the same number would turn out.

If nobody replies to my 'amazing' speel I will severly p*ssed:) .

I'm always amazed at the level of intelligence and wisdom of your posts (also your funny humour). :)

You sir are a wise man, and you're only 20 years old! :eek:
 
I'm always amazed at the level of intelligence and wisdom of your posts (also your funny humour). :)

You sir are a wise man, and you're only 20 years old! :eek:

Many thanks Pardalis.:)

I just often look back on the way I was when this war started and the naive dreams I had of the common statement "Why can't we just love each other?". I wish the people who have no clue what the Iraq war is about but simply oppose it because 'dead children=bad' could admit that war is an awful thing, but we shouldn't simply lay the blame on the United States as an evil entity out for oil. As I said in the other thread, we all have a great desire to blame someone, and it is always of great disappointment to discover that while flawed, George Bush may actually be a nice guy. A disappointing realisation, as it may mean we may actually have to sit down with each other and carry out mature politics in which people can admit they will never agree but need to work something out as nobody is winning. People can never admit we are all as s*it and as meaningless as each other, and I believe society should work on that.

I worry this is the approach Oliver takes, as it is the easy one.

But, my ideology is of a Marxist Libertarian, so I wouldn't lable the any sanity concept on me just yet.:D
 
well, I'll pass that on to my anti-american housemate, but please understand that I have no grudge with America nor will I ever, regardless of who is in charge. I consistently defend the United States to people in the pub and bring up the first amendment as an example.


OK then I've recalled the hit team. :) your post didn't come off as anti-American, just honest.
 
Notice the part of Cheney leading the way in promoting the war.
For what it's worth, there was an episode of Frontline on last year which dealt with Vice-President Cheney and his role in putting forth the intelligence illustrating that Iraq had WMDs.
 
You call yourself a man and you need another man to fight your battles?

What is your excuse?

No one else calls you a man, I am sure of that.:p
I got to play in Operation Iraqi Freedom. People in Iraq are now free to live and die in new and exciting ways, so in one way, it has been a great success: more variations on the old theme.

ETA

Note: the war should have been called Operation Kurdish Freedom.

Note: About 2 million people seem to have left/run from Iraq since the US began the war, with the number accelerating as the civil war got worse, and the economy showed no hope of improving.

I still disagree with the policy decisions, and strategy view, that led GW Bush to war, particularly without doing a better job politically to lay the foundation of the post conflict environment.

Do I have to un-retire, and then go back over to the CENTCOM AOR, to please you? Your name calling/manhood challenging game on this topic does nothing for your argument.

So no, I don't think so, no one has to go to Iraq to please you.

DR
 
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Note: About 2 million people seem to have left/run from Iraq since the US began the war, with the number accelerating as the civil war got worse, and the economy showed no hope of improving.

What do you mean, no hope of improving? It IS improving.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16241340/site/newsweek/
"Estimates vary, but one from Global Insight puts GDP growth at 17 percent last year and projects 13 percent for 2006. The World Bank has it lower: at 4 percent this year. But, given all the attention paid to deteriorating security, the startling fact is that Iraq is growing at all."

"Imported goods have grown increasingly affordable, thanks to the elimination of tariffs and trade barriers. Salaries have gone up more than 100 percent since the fall of Saddam, and income-tax cuts (from 45 percent to just 15 percent) have put more cash in Iraqi pockets."
 
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