Ray Comfort offers $10,000 for a "transitional" fossil

[Questioninggeller]

Ray Comfort, church minister/Kirk Cameron's sidekick, has pulled a Kent Hovind. Hovind used to offer $250,000 for proof of evolution, but he is behind bars for the next 10 years for obstruction of justice and 57 other felonies. It appears Comfort has taken up the reins for creationist arguments/publicity stunts by offering prize money for "challenges."

...
The $10,000 Offer

A transitional form (or missing link) is an example of one species “evolving” into another species. Excited scientists thought they had found one when they discovered “Archaeopteryx.” The fossil led to the theory that the dinosaurs did not become extinct, but rather all turned into birds. The Field Museum in Chicago displayed what was believed to be an archaeopteryx fossil on October 4-19, 1997. It was hailed as “Archaeopteryx: The Bird That Rocked the World.” However, Dr. Alan Feduccia (evolutionary biologist at the University of North Carolina), said, “Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into an earth-bound, feathered dinosaur. But it’s not. It is a bird, a perching bird. And no amount of ‘paleo-babble’ is going to change that.” [Science, February 5, 1993]. So here’s my challenge: I will give $10,000 to the first person who can prove to me that they have found a genuine living transitional form (a lizard that produced a bird, or a dog that produced kittens, or a sheep that produced a chicken, or even as Archaeopteryx—a dinosaur that produced a bird). Species do not cross, no matter how long you leave them. The whole of creation is proof that evolution is truly “a fairytale for grownups.”

Ray Comfort.

email proof@intelligentdesignversusevolution.com

Source: http://intelligentdesignversusevolution.com/arguments.html

Video of Comfort and Cameron on ABC's Nightline: http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3148940&page=1

 

[DrDisco]

This is like offering $10K to anyone who can produce a motorcycle, then defining a motorcycle as a vehicle made of a combination of living tissue and mechanical parts. When you make your own convoluted definitions for something, you never have to worry about losing your money.

 

[Wowbagger]

More like giving $10K to anyone who can prove a paranormal claim.

Randi's is better, giving $1 Million, and he is open to more types of claims than dogs that can produce kittens and such.

Also, Ray does not understand what a transitional fossil is. Someone should give him the definition of 'Saltation'.

 

[Moon-Spinner]

Who else here had to slap their forehead as they read Ray Comfort's challenge? Can this guy really be that clueless? His description of a transitional form is just stupid!

I'll venture to guess that nobody will waste their time with his idiotic challenge (which, of course, will convince Ray Comfort that he's right because nobody has stepped forward with any proof).

 

[Mercutio]

Funny thing--I just saw a published account of exactly the sort of thing he's looking for. Oddly enough, it also explains the crocoduck. Turns out the intermediate form is humans! Crocodile--> croc-man --> human --> bat-boy (same source) --> birds (the bible says bats are birds).

Can I have my 10,000 bucks now?

 

[hgc]

This is like offering $10K to anyone who can produce a motorcycle, then defining a motorcycle as a vehicle made of a combination of living tissue and mechanical parts. When you make your own convoluted definitions for something, you never have to worry about losing your money.

Does that motorcycle have to have wheels?

 

[Questioninggeller]

Funny thing--I just saw a published account of exactly the sort of thing he's looking for. Oddly enough, it also explains the crocoduck. Turns out the intermediate form is humans! Crocodile--> croc-man --> human --> bat-boy (same source) --> birds (the bible says bats are birds).

Can I have my 10,000 bucks now?

What makes it truly sad is the part in the Nightline debate when Cameron held up pictures of a crocodile/duck claiming scientists don't have proof of evolution. As discussed in this thread.

See Kirk holding up the picture at http://www.slate.com/id/2165986/ and quote:

...At one point, Cameron, mocking the theory of evolution, held up a photo-illustration of a duck with the head of crocodile. Seeing this, Brian, stunned, could not help but mutter, "Oh. My. God."

Video (Ray Comfort is sitting on Cameron's left):

 

[Mercutio]

But that is exactly what they want. Nothing less than a crocoduck (and a fertile one, at that) will win the prize.

 

[skeptifem]

this is just as bogus as that other guy's challenge for evolution proof, where it basically boils down to needing proof of life arising out of nothing.

what a moron.

 

[clerihew80]

I think Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort are indisputable proof that some humans are transitioning into dodos. Where's my money?

 

[tsg]

Wait, he's offering $10K for a strawman? I should have lots of those....

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

So do I get $10 for a plant that underwent polyploidy? This can result in a new species (crosses with the parent population are sterile) in a single generation.

So which is the "transitional" form he wants, the parent or the offspring? Wouldn't it take one of each (along with molecular proof that one is the parent of the other)?

 

[joobz]

While the distinction is clear, I can't help but cringe that this thread reminds me of the woo threads criticizing the JREF challenge.

 

[tsg]

While the distinction is clear, I can't help but cringe that this thread reminds me of the woo threads criticizing the JREF challenge.

Well, there is one big difference. We're right.

 

[Zep]

While the distinction is clear, I can't help but cringe that this thread reminds me of the woo threads criticizing the JREF challenge.

Hmmm, I appreciate the concern, but it is not really. It looks a lot more like some opening shots, not closing dismissals.

I'd like someone to get some sort of public description from Comfort as to what HE thinks "evolution" is, and how "transitional fossils" figure in the fossil record. He needs to be made to show his working, put his "science" where his mouth is. Because it is obvious that he is simply making up some baloney strawman definition of his own design to support an unsupportable point.

You might also consider SERIOUSLY who his intended audience is. Seriously... If he is addressing skeptics and scientists, and he has even a particle of brain, he would know from the outset his proposal is utter crap. So it is likely he won't bother to engage with any of them in order to support his position, especially in public (because he will get publicly pounded).

However it is probably far more likely he is specifically addressing his own chosen audience...of semi-literate believers and brain-washed creationists, people who (fail to) think like Kirk Cameron all the time. In which case he will ignore any engagement requests from "science" and continue to use this as an opportunity to show that he is "right" and that no-one can refute him.

So can I suggest some other tactics besides direct confrontation might be more profitable in swaying him and his audience?

 

[joobz]

You might also consider SERIOUSLY who his intended audience is.

That is who i'm considering. I would expect the people who by the "crocoduck" to not understand the differences between the challenges. Which makes this thread (if it were to be linked on comfort's site) look like a silly woo thread.

So can I suggest some other tactics besides direct confrontation might be more profitable in swaying him and his audience?

Like what?

 

[skeptifem]

So do I get $10 for a plant that underwent polyploidy? This can result in a new species (crosses with the parent population are sterile) in a single generation.

So which is the "transitional" form he wants, the parent or the offspring? Wouldn't it take one of each (along with molecular proof that one is the parent of the other)?

I am guessing the only thing that would suffice is the fossil of a pregnant animal, with the fetus intact, carrying a completely new species.

 

[articulett]

How do they explain things like ligers--(male lion crossed with female tiger)?--Clearly they have common ancestry-- or god was recycling dna?

Horses, donkeys, zebras and hybrids thereof?

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

The $10,000 Offer

A transitional form (or missing link) is an example of one species “evolving” into another species. Excited scientists thought they had found one when they discovered “Archaeopteryx.” The fossil led to the theory that the dinosaurs did not become extinct, but rather all turned into birds. The Field Museum in Chicago displayed what was believed to be an archaeopteryx fossil on October 4-19, 1997. It was hailed as “Archaeopteryx: The Bird That Rocked the World.” However, Dr. Alan Feduccia (evolutionary biologist at the University of North Carolina), said, “Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into an earth-bound, feathered dinosaur. But it’s not. It is a bird, a perching bird. And no amount of ‘paleo-babble’ is going to change that.” [Science, February 5, 1993]. So here’s my challenge: I will give $10,000 to the first person who can prove to me that they have found a genuine living transitional form (a lizard that produced a bird, or a dog that produced kittens, or a sheep that produced a chicken, or even as Archaeopteryx—a dinosaur that produced a bird). Species do not cross, no matter how long you leave them. The whole of creation is proof that evolution is truly “a fairytale for grownups.”

Ray Comfort.

Oh! Some fundie scumwad picked the wrong night to piss me off... even more than I currently am!

Let's have a look, shall we?

• Does Archeopteryx have wings like modern birds. Yes.
• Does Archeopteryx have a wishbone like modern birds. Yes.
• Does Archeopteryx have feathers like modern birds? Yes.

On the other hand...

• Do modern birds have teeth? No. Yet Archeopteryx does.
• Do modern birds have fingers as part of their wings? No. Yet Archeopteryx does.
• Do modern birds have bony tails? No. Yet Archeopteryx does.

Theropods and other smaller meat eating dinosaurs of the age have these and other features. Not to mention other fossilized species of proto-birds as well as feathered dinosaurs have the same characteristics.

Hmmmm... let's see. Looks pretty transitional to me. I expect my money in small, unmarked bills. Not that I expect them to actually pay up.

Fracking Christards make me sick. And people wonder why I despise them so much.

 

[CFLarsen]

I will give $10,000 to the first person who can prove to me that they have found a genuine living transitional form (a lizard that produced a bird, or a dog that produced kittens, or a sheep that produced a chicken, or even as Archaeopteryx—a dinosaur that produced a bird). Species do not cross, no matter how long you leave them.

Hmmm....yes, dopey. That's just what they do. Given enough time.

What they don't do, is "produce" a very different species from one generation to another. And the theory of Evolution doesn't say that they do.

The latter, of course, being the crux of the matter.